Atheism, Religion, and Crime

[annem]

StrawberryJam

You don’t want to go down that road. Your bible will condemn you for it.
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Strawberry Jam apparently you need a refresher course on the bible.

We are not to judge anyone. For example, a serial killer may have a brain tumor. No one but God can judge him.

But society is obligated to stop the serial killer if it can. And the Christian is obligated to stand up and speak to truth about morality, no matter what.

And irregardless of the saintliness of your life, all humans on this planet should be aware of what atheists did in the last century. And atheists themselves should be prepared to ponder the millions of people slaughtered by them.
May God grant you miracles! Annem

 

[liquidpele]

Why? This will further lead to a lack of values, and probably more crime.

Your assumption is that values and morality stem directly from religion. I would claim religion is just the organization (twisted over the years) of morality that exists in us naturally. We are social animals after all. Surely you don’t think morality suddenly popped into existence the moment Jesus was born? I would say that I believe the Chinese would disagree with you, but I find few Catholics have any appreciation of their differing culture.

 

[anEvilAtheist]

anEvilAtheist

I am thrilled to hear you donate money and time. Good for you. Nevertheless, we have research that proves atheists, on the whole, give less, lie more, cheat more, commit adultery more, and generally prove to be less than moral.

However, you are avoiding the issue of what atheism did in the last century. Aren’t you?

May God grant you miracles! Annem

I do not continue replying to people who ignore my substantive points and try to change the subject when I expose their claims as untrue.

 

[annem]

liquidpele

So when I have my next urge to eat babies, can I call you to talk me down?

Cute. I take it from this reply that you have not a single rebuttal to the charge of what atheists did in the last century? It’s all deny, accuse, etc. Or if brought to the sticking point, make a joke. Cute.

But no cigar.

May God grant you miracles, Annem

 

[liquidpele]

And irregardless of the saintliness of your life, all humans on this planet should be aware of what atheists did in the last century. And atheists themselves should be prepared to ponder the millions of people slaughtered by them.
May God grant you miracles! Annem

FYI, that’s not a word.

 

[liquidpele]

liquidpele

Cute. I take it from this reply that you have not a single rebuttal to the charge of what atheists did in the last century? It’s all deny, accuse, etc. Or if brought to the sticking point, make a joke. Cute.

Let me put it this way: Would you really explain how sex works to a child, or would you try to avoid the topic somehow because they were obviously not ready for the conversation?

If you want to hear that I think it is horrible what some atheists did, then yes, I feel that way. I get the feeling you think I have some kind of personal responsibility though, which is laughable.

 

[anEvilAtheist]

When you take responsibility for the crimes of all those who lack a belief in unicorns, maybe I’ll take responsibility for the crimes of all those who lack belief in a God.

 

[annem]

liquidpele

We are social animals after all. Surely you don’t think morality suddenly popped into existence the moment Jesus was born? I would say that I believe the Chinese would disagree with you, but I find few Catholics have any appreciation of their differing culture.

Catholics would argue all humans are born with an innate morality that stems from our being created by God.

Yes, I have heard of Confucius once or twice. Actually, I am very familiar with much of eastern philosophy. With its good points and its flaws.

May God grant you miracles! Annem

 

[annem]

anEvilAtheist

When you take responsibility for the crimes of all those who lack a belief in unicorns, maybe I’ll take responsibility for the crimes of all those who lack belief in a God.

Scared to debate the issue, I take it?

May God grant you miracles, Annem

 

[annem]

liquidpele

FYI, that’s not a word.

This is your response? You’re kidding?

May God grant you miracles! Annem

 

[eggsbenedict]

Thanks for your thoughts.

These are nice thoughts, but in trying to talk someone out of suicide - they are weak conjectures. The suicidal person more often is afraid that things will get worse. The fact is, things do get worse very often.

So then why not end it all and hope God has mercy on you and you spend the rest of eternity in heaven?

But regardless, what good are these “happy moments”? They’re going to end anyway, so why not now with suicide? The only hope that atheism can give is that there might be something a little better than what you have now – but no guarantee.

Theism can not guarantee a better future.

This is not a reason for living at all though. It’s going to be more pain and suffering – that is certain. There might be some happiness mixed in, but the suicidal person cannot deal with the pain that will certainly come in the future. Why should he or she deal with that? There is no ultimate purpose for the atheist – so suicide goes along with it.

One can choose their own purpose and meaning for life. You can also choose someone else’s. Saying that suicide goes along with atheism shows a complete complete misunderstanding of it.

But I think the problem is that suicide is the answer for atheism. There is no guesswork involved (if atheism is true). Whatever happiness you gain in life, no matter how much you have – it’s all going to disappear quickly with death. Why not just have it disappear now?

Because you only get one kick at the can.

It is absolutely certain that every person is going to face some pain and eventually die. I see this idea supporting suicide as an answer for just about everyone.

That’s a very defeatist attitude, and obviously not one shared by many atheists.

Atheism can only hold out some hope that there might be happy moments (but there might not be also). These happy moments are passing and might actually make the suffering even more painful.

How so?

It’s like a person who regrets winning the lottery because after losing all the money he is more unhappy than he was when he didn’t have it. Or a man who marries a beautiful wife and has some brief happiness – but then she leaves him for another guy and he has profound sorrow. He may say that it would have been better if he didn’t have that little happiness.

Maybe he should have enjoyed the good time then? Maybe he should see the rest of hist life as an opportunity and make the most of it?

So a little, fleeting happiness, can be much more painful for a person to consider.

People want the happiness to last. But with atheism, it does not last and cannot last very long. Suicide puts and end to the ups and the downs. It’s not just the downs that the person wants to avoid. But the rising of hopes and then crushing of hopes – that is worse.

Theism will not make happiness last any longer. A theist will suffer the same problems.

 

[anEvilAtheist]

anEvilAtheist

Scared to debate the issue, I take it?

May God grant you miracles, Annem

I had attempted to with post 70. When people just ignore substantive points that were made I assume they are just trolling.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Edit

 

[anEvilAtheist]

Thanks for your thoughts.

These are nice thoughts, but in trying to talk someone out of suicide - they are weak conjectures. The suicidal person more often is afraid that things will get worse.

But I do not think we should evaluate the morality or truth of a position by whether it enables us to give people false hope.

The fact is, things do get worse very often. But regardless, what good are these “happy moments”? They’re going to end anyway, so why not now with suicide? The only hope that atheism can give is that there might be something a little better than what you have now – but no guarantee. This is not a reason for living at all though. It’s going to be more pain and suffering – that is certain. There might be some happiness mixed in, but the suicidal person cannot deal with the pain that will certainly come in the future. Why should he or she deal with that? There is no ultimate purpose for the atheist – so suicide goes along with it.

Just because there is no God-given value or purpose to life doesn’t mean that we can’t value our lives and establish a purpose for ourselves. I care more about what’s true than about what is comfortable. I would rather believe the truth than that I am the single most important person in the existence of the world and my life is as purposeful as everyone else’s put together.

But I think the problem is that suicide is the answer for atheism. There is no guesswork involved (if atheism is true). Whatever happiness you gain in life, no matter how much you have – it’s all going to disappear quickly with death. Why not just have it disappear now?

Because I want to enjoy it.

It is absolutely certain that every person is going to face some pain and eventually die. I see this idea supporting suicide as an answer for just about everyone.

Have you ever gone to see a movie despite knowing that it would end at some point? It’s still valuable even if I know it will end.

Catholicism does have a stance on suicide, of course. But Catholicism also proposes a definite meaning and purpose to life here on earth as well as after death. This gives meaning to suffering and to the lack of happiness (or transient nature of happiness) that life affords to many people.

Since I do not believe in God, I believe this is false meaning and false hope. Do you really think we should evaluate beliefs by whether they give meaning and purpose on life? Would it be better if I believed that I was the second coming of Jesus because then I’d feel a strong sense of purpose?! In the end, I just want to enjoy life for what it is, and appreciate the time I have.

Atheism can only hold out some hope that there might be happy moments (but there might not be also). These happy moments are passing and might actually make the suffering even more painful.

Or maybe the suffering might make the happy moments more enjoyable.

It’s like a person who regrets winning the lottery because after losing all the money he is more unhappy than he was when he didn’t have it. Or a man who marries a beautiful wife and has some brief happiness – but then she leaves him for another guy and he has profound sorrow. He may say that it would have been better if he didn’t have that little happiness.

So a little, fleeting happiness, can be much more painful for a person to consider.

Or how extremely wealthy people are sometimes less happy because they become bored with being able to do anything.

People want the happiness to last. But with atheism, it does not last and cannot last very long. Suicide puts and end to the ups and the downs. It’s not just the downs that the person wants to avoid. But the rising of hopes and then crushing of hopes – that is worse.

And if I could choose to believe whatever I wanted and cared more about what would make me happy than about what I think is true, I would not have chosen atheism.

 

[eggsbenedict]

When you take responsibility for the crimes of all those who lack a belief in unicorns, maybe I’ll take responsibility for the crimes of all those who lack belief in a God.

Hey now you wait a second, when you take responsibility for the crimes of all those who lack a belief in the FSM, I’ll take responsibility for the crimes of all those who lack belief in invisible pink unicorns.

 

[eggsbenedict]

liquidpele

eggsbenedict

Wow, total denial of any responsibility. Are you people trying to prove that atheists cannot be moral?? It sure seems like it.

When do I hear the apologies? Why are you busy tossing blame on everybody else? It seems to be the first, the only, the knee jerk response. It’s not my fault! It’s not the fault of the group I belong to! Besides, you;re either a) just as bad or b) worse.

This is VERY DISTURBING BEHAVIOR and you really, really need to think about it.

A lot.

But may God grant you all miracles anyway, Annem

You are attempting to place responsibility for a particular behavior on an individual based on common attributes with others who have shown a behavior. For examples “I saw a man with blue eyes steal a lady’s purse. Therefore all men with blue eye’s are thieves.”

I think this shows a DISTURBING lack of reason.

 

[StrawberryJam]

StrawberryJam

Strawberry Jam apparently you need a refresher course on the bible.

We are not to judge anyone. For example, a serial killer may have a brain tumor. No one but God can judge him.

But society is obligated to stop the serial killer if it can. And the Christian is obligated to stand up and speak to truth about morality, no matter what.

And irregardless of the saintliness of your life, all humans on this planet should be aware of what atheists did in the last century. And atheists themselves should be prepared to ponder the millions of people slaughtered by them.
May God grant you miracles! Annem

Why does God have to grant me a miracle?

And why do you think being normal is saintliness? what are you like or would be like without your God?

 

[Charles_Darwin]

liquidpele

Cute. I take it from this reply that you have not a single rebuttal to the charge of what atheists did in the last century? It’s all deny, accuse, etc. Or if brought to the sticking point, make a joke. Cute.

But no cigar.

May God grant you miracles, Annem

Explain to me why the countries with the lowest crime rates on earth are all atheist countries?

 

[Charlemagne_II]

*One research study found that children who were not raised by both biological parents had a 200% higher chance of ending up in prison.

God bless, Annem *

Do you happen to remember the source? Was it on the internet? It would help me if I could cite the original source.

Thanks,
Charlie

 

[Charlemagne_II]

• Originally Posted by Charlemagne II
  If you were walking down a street sidewalk and on one side of the street coming toward you there was a group of young men toting bibles and on the other side there was a group of young men in black leather jackets wielding bats and chains, on which side of the street would you rather be?*

anEvilAtheist answered:

Well obviously I’d try to stay away from people brandishing weapons. But that’s because of the weapons, not because of the religion. But if there were two groups that looked the same except one was obviously religious, I don’t think I’d be any more afraid of the non-religious group.

Please answer the following two questions:

In which group would you expect to find more Christians? In which group more atheists?

Would you expect to find Christians wielding bats and chains and wearing black leather jackets?

From which group would you expect to see more members end up in prison?