Atheists can be in heaven?

[twf]

That’s the thing I struggle with. Very few people know the faith to be true and yet reject it. They either have no reason to think it could be true or find the arguments lacking for whatever reason.

 

[Ioannes_L]

Even seeing God face to face doesn’t constitute proof of God’s objective existence.

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[VanitasVanitatum]

They’ll believe anyway.

 

[LateranBasilica]

Actually, you can never, ever, ever, know that there’s a God. Belief in God will ALWAYS be a matter of faith, even in heaven.

So there could indeed be atheists in heaven.

Of course you can know God exists.
I know absolutely that God exists. 100%
Faith and belief are not the same thing.

 

[LateranBasilica]

Even seeing God face to face doesn’t constitute proof of God’s objective existence.

This will be a great question to ask you after you have encountered God.

 

[Apache75]

Your are A.S.K.O.S. Sorry. But to the OP question, I believe in Gods mercy. I cant say what God would do. We will find out though!

 

[Bradskii]

If they have had exposure to Christianity and have the option of following Jesus Christ and yet still choose not to, then they are damned.

The pope disagrees with you:

“We all have the duty to good. … The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! … We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.” Pope: Atheists Redeemed by Doing Good - Christian News Headlines

 

[poche]

From the Baltimore Catechism;

Q. 510. Is it ever possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church?

A. It is possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, provided that person:

1.(1) Has been validly baptized;

2.(2) Firmly believes the religion he professes and practices to be the true religion, and

3.(3) Dies without the guilt of mortal sin on his soul

And also;

Q. 650. What is Baptism of desire?

A. Baptism of desire is an ardent wish to receive Baptism, and to do all that God has ordained for our salvation.

Q. 653. Is Baptism of desire or of blood sufficient to produce the effects of Baptism of water?

A. Baptism of desire or of blood is sufficient to produce the effects of the Baptism of water, if it is impossible to

receive the Baptism of water.

Q. 654. How do we know that the baptism of desire or of blood will save us when it is impossible to

receive the baptism of water?

A. We know that baptism of desire or of blood will save us when it is impossible to receive the baptism of water,

from Holy Scripture, which teaches that love of God and perfect contrition can secure the remission of sins ; and

also that Our Lord promises salvation to those who lay down their life for His sake or for His teaching.

Lesson 14: On Baptism

 

[LateranBasilica]

Your faith dilemma is not mine. Your faith crisis is not mine. I am not experiencing what you are experiencing.
Life is eternal, this means one day you will meet your God face to face and then you will be sure God exists.

To know 100% God exists is the exact opposite of an egocentric predicament. You have this backwards. Because to know God exists is to place my will in the dust bin of time and replace it with God’s will.

Pride is where you are coming from. Try humbling yourself to open the door just a crack to the possibility of your creator.

Faith and belief are not built upon each other. They are separate. Faith is a gift. Belief does not mean we have automatic faith in something.

Your ego and pride is showing in your statement
“what can God say or do to prove to me He is real”
God does not spoon feed us. God expects us to firstly seek Him out.

 

[LateranBasilica]

amen brother in Christ

 

[Apache75]

Not really inappropriate. A Special Kind Of S… . How could being in front of God not be proof? Im assuming you are not a believer and that is fine. Each has a right not to believe. Im guessing you were a believer at one time and lost his/her faith or never believed. So what is it you believe then? Science perhaps?

 

[LawyersGunsAndMoney]

From the Baltimore Catechism;

Just to point this out: the Baltimore Catechism is both outdated and was originally intended for children. Not saying it’s wrong or anything, but I’d stick with the actual Catechism.

 

[Gorgias]

If they have knowledge of Him and still choose to reject Him, then they are damned.

Not true, according to the teachings of the Church.

That probably won’t apply to your friends if they have the internet.

Again, mere knowledge or access to information isn’t the standard, here.

They always have the chance to convert and nothing stops them from finding more about Catholicism except themselves.

Yet again, ‘opportunity’ isn’t the standard.

Bonaventurian:

If they have had exposure to Christianity and have the option of following Jesus Christ and yet still choose not to, then they are damned.

Bonaventurian:

If they go their entire lives without any inkling of knowledge of Christ or Christianity, then they would be judged on their adherence to natural law.

Ahh… now you’re getting closer!

They have access to that knowledge and they are culpable for not finding out.

The standard isn’t ‘access’…

The first priest said, “It is impossible to know this, but I believe that Jesus can and will save everyone.”

There’s a subtle, yet critical distinction between “Jesus will judge each person individually and have mercy on each” and “Jesus will save everyone.” The latter is ‘universalism’, which the Church condemns; the former is an appeal to Christ’s mercy in judgment, which the Church upholds.

Might Jesus have mercy on each and every person who ever lived? It’s possible. (I’m not gonna comment on how likely it is, though…)

Will Jesus say “meh… let’s forget about this whole thing – you’re all in!”…? The Church says ‘no’ to that idea.

At the end of the day, an atheist will believe in God.

The general definition of an atheist is one who believes that God does not exist.

Following their particular judgement with Jesus, following their death, it will be kinda difficult for them to hold to the claim “the God – with whom I just had a conversation – does not exist.”

There are no atheists in hell – just people who reject God.

Belief in God will ALWAYS be a matter of faith, even in heaven.

So… you die, and then you have a conversation with Jesus in which your eternal destiny is revealed. You’re saying that this isn’t the incontrovertible evidence of God’s existence that atheists and agnostics claim to want to experience? I would disagree…

We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

Where is the ‘there’ you think Francis is referencing? I’m taking the referent to be “meet[ing] one another doing good”. Do you take it to mean ‘heaven’? I think he’s talking about a process, not the destination.

 

[Diaconia]

God does whatever He wishes.

But every person, regardless of their background or belief, is only in heaven because Jesus died for them.

Deacon Christopher

 

[Genesis315]

One who perseveres to the end in atheism cannot be saved. Faith is necessary for salvation:

From the Catechism:

161 Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation.42 "Since “without faith it is impossible to please [God]” and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life ‘But he who endures to the end.’"43

And, since faith is believing what God has revealed based on His authority alone, we must of course first believe God exists before we can put our faith in Him:

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

However, for someone seeking to follow the truth with an upright conscience, God will lead them to that necessary faith (even in ways known only to Himself (cf. CCC 848) or if only at the 11th hour, as we see in the parable of the workers in the vinyard.) As the First Vatican Council teaches “For, the kind Lord stirs up those who go astray and helps them by his grace so that they may come to the knowledge of the truth.”

Here’s how Pope Francis put it in his first encyclical:

Lumen Fidei 35:

Because faith is a way, it also has to do with the lives of those men and women who, though not believers, nonetheless desire to believe and continue to seek. To the extent that they are sincerely open to love and set out with whatever light they can find, they are already, even without knowing it, on the path leading to faith…Any-one who sets off on the path of doing good to others is already drawing near to God, is already sustained by his help, for it is characteristic of the divine light to brighten our eyes whenever we walk towards the fullness of love.

So to sum up, someone who perseveres to the end in atheism cannot be saved, but that doesn’t mean any particular person who is an atheist now is definitively lost.

 

[ConstantlyConverting]

You know I heard a sermon once on what is the “unforgivable sin” and that priest said that it was limiting Gods Mercy.

No one can judge anyone thoughts, reasons, background, faith, etc. But the one thing we can count on is Gods Mercy and Love.

 

[Episcopalian]

I always took it as knowledge of him and his sacrifice, both logically and emotionally.

In the sense, that between the time I was Catholic then Episcopalian I spent a great deal of time as nothing.

I knew very well that Jesus died for me and there was an all loving God out there, but I purposely chose to not go to Mass, or participate in the sacramental life. I was very angry back then.

I think since I knew of him in my heart, I’d have some serious explaining to do!

However, I think that atheists or agnostics believe in nothing (or an entity) and know that Jesus was real and he was killed on a cross. But not fully realize in their hearts just what he did for us when he was martyred.

In that case, if they die, they wouldn’t go to hell since they didn’t know of him in their hearts.

Would I have?? Hopefully even then I’d just have a longer stint in purgatory, but who knows for sure!

 

[c1949]

Have you read the Bible? John 3:16? For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so that those who believe in him might not perish but have everlasting life. (from memory)

St Paul says (in Romans as I recall) that God can be known from the things that exist.

People who are atheists may have never heard the good news, the gospel. God will judge them according to his justice and mercy. Those who have known God but have turned away may be judged more severely.

Babies who die have never known God in the way we usually think of “knowing God” but certainly may be in heaven.

I think there’s a book called “reasons for Our Hope”

 

[Calliope]

If athesists and non Catholics with internet access are bound to use it to investigate Catholicism so they can recognize it as truth and thus not be damned, are Catholics who have internet access bound to study other religions so they can likewise choose Catholicism as truth and be saved? Or if you happen to be born into Catholicism is it acceptable to accept it as truth without comparing it to other beliefs?

 

[Bradskii]

Where is the ‘there’ you think Francis is referencing? I’m taking the referent to be “meet[ing] one another doing good”. Do you take it to mean ‘heaven’? I think he’s talking about a process, not the destination.

The whole discussion was in regard to atheists attaining heaven. The pope disagrees with your position.