Atheists can be in heaven?

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The Pope’s opinions are not infallible.

Atheists cannot enter heaven because they reject the existence of God and therefore Christ. Case in point: “Jesus said to him: 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.This is the greatest and the first commandment.” Matthew 22:37-38

And let’s not also forget;
“For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him. He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:17-18
 
Bonaventurian said:
The Pope’s opinions are not infallible.

Atheists cannot enter heaven because they reject the existence of God and therefore Christ. Case in point: “Jesus said to him: 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.This is the greatest and the first commandment.” Matthew 22:37-38

And let’s not also forget;
“For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him. He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:17-18
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OK. Let me think about that. Shall I listen to a random guy on the internet on matters of salvation? Or the pope.

Mmm. Tough call.
 
Why not listen to the very explicit words of Our Lord that I posted?

If you deny Christ, you do not enter heaven.
 
Bonaventurian said:
Why not listen to the very explicit words of Our Lord that I posted?

If you deny Christ, you do not enter heaven.
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Please make sure the pope knows that he is in error. Here’s his address:

His Holiness, Pope Francis
Apostolic Palace
00120 Vatican City

Don’t add ‘Italy’ to the address. The Vatican City is a separate state.
 
YoungSheldon said:
I already issued a challenge to you. If your mind is able to create some new physical reality, all you need to do is demonstrate it. Because one thing is certain: “YOUR mind cannot influence MY mind.”
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Haven’t they already influenced your mind by getting you to respond?
Bradskii said:
Please make sure the pope knows that he is in error. Here’s his address:

His Holiness, Pope Francis
Apostolic Palace
00120 Vatican City

Don’t add ‘Italy’ to the address. The Vatican City is a separate state.
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looskanal said:
, I can’t know. And I am quite comfortable in that ignorance.
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We are not all the same, we are not all like you. Some of us KNOW.
Your faith dilemma is in your statement ’ I can’t know’
looskanal said:
Even then, belief in God will be a matter of faith
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If you understand the Church teaching on what occurs after death, you will understand why I say belief in God will be a real tangible reality.
looskanal said:
There’s the problem…you can’t know. And it’s only self-delusion and pride that makes you think that you can.
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oh ye of little faith. How about you listen to what I am saying about my faith, rather then insulting and denigrating me for my faith and my knowing that God exists.
looskanal said:
Belief is built upon faith. Take away the latter, and you lose the former.
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Again they are very separate. I can run a myriad of examples about concrete earthly comparisons on belief vs faith. Think about this statement. What do you have faith in? Your weekly pay check? What do you believe? Will it always be there on time? for example. Do you have faith it will be?
looskanal said:
But you didn’t answer the question, what can God say or do that would prove to me that He’s real?
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You need to ask this question yourself, of God. I would suggest start by looking around you. Try seeing the work of God in the little things, the simple things.
looskanal said:
In essence what I’m professing isn’t pride, but invincible ignorance.
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You are not ignorant. You are tossing around the idea of the existence of your creator. You are professing doubt or denial or self will.
looskanal said:
Pride comes in arrogantly believing that you can.
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And again with this insulting and degrading statement. Who are you to tell a person who has both faith and belief in God, that they are arrogant and prideful for their belief.
Be gone satan!
 
A lot has been written here, some ugly, some nice. The Jewish position is that there really is no hell in the first place, and that atheists, as long as they lived life with good moral intent, are not in hell. After all, one must ask G-d, “Who are You to send someone to hell just because they weren’t given Your Torah?” And G-d will respond with (unless you’re Job), “You’re right.”

Again, in Judaism, anyone and everyone will be in heaven. There is no need to create a being to just damn him/her for eternity. Point two: the Jewish version of hell is very different than the Catholic one. We don’t have fire and brimstone. Last point: Judaism also teaches some reincarnation, so perhaps a non-spiritual person is reincarnated as a spiritual one? Who knows.

When all is said and done, some of the answers here weren’t the kindest. At least that’s that’s the way I perceived it. If I’m wrong, I’ll be happy for someone to point it out to me rather than just delete this post without my knowledge of it.
 
Ok I feel i have to say this. I was just trying to get (name removed by moderator)ut and I’d appreciate y’all not coming at each other.
 
Chalk up another for someone not born into it.

Atheism comes from a philosophy very rooted in evolution “survival of the fittest.” Now, the athiests I know are all extremely kind and compassionate people. They’d rip their own arms off to help others. But at the end of the day, they all tell me that the human life itself has no intrinsic value. A human is valued inasmuch as they are able to feel pain, and others love them as well. Because we love, and because we care about others and their feelings, we look after one another. Not to mention the whole of humanity is best served when each member has someone looking out for them.

This used to be my philosophy as well before Christ found me. It’s what makes Christianity such a, well, blinding light as it were. The idea that life has intrinsic value? It’s a game changer!
 
Delphinus said:
This used to be my philosophy as well before Christ found me. It’s what makes Christianity such a, well, blinding light as it were. The idea that life has intrinsic value? It’s a game changer!
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Whether we have intrinsic value seems not to matter. We still treat people relatively. You value your child more than you would a stranger. For instrinsic value read empathy. An evolutionary characteristic that helped us survive.

Incidentally, survival of the fittest means the survival of those that fit the environment best. Not the common understanding of the term fitness which would imply strongest or heathiest (although they are benefits in themselves).
 
vz71 said:
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Bradskii:
OK. Let me think about that. Shall I listen to a random guy on the internet on matters of salvation? Or the pope.

Mmm. Tough call.
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Given your claim to atheism, I do not believe this post means much.
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vz71 said:
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Bradskii:
OK. Let me think about that. Shall I listen to a random guy on the internet on matters of salvation? Or the pope.

Mmm. Tough call.
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Given your claim to atheism, I do not believe this post means much.
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The pope’s comments were directed at me (well, not me personally). Are you saying I should ignore them?
 
vz71 said:
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Bradskii:
The pope’s comments were directed at me (well, not me personally). Are you saying I should ignore them?
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No, I am saying you already do.
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Seems a pointelss exercise for the pope to make comments to a group of people that will ignore what he says.
 
looskanal said:
Anything that the mind can perceive, it’s possible that the mind itself has created.
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“I think, therefore I create myself”? Decartes would be disappointed in you.

Essentially, you’re arguing that your mind would create something that you categorically deny exists! 🤣

But, let’s play your game. With what sense organs would you be ‘perceiving’ God, in such a way that you could ‘create’ a phantom sensation? You see… your idea is a non-starter. Clever… creative… desperate. But a non-starter.
looskanal said:
I would really like a well thought out, and reasoned response to this question. What could He say or do to prove that He exists?
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First of all… without any ability to perceive, you would be perceiving Him.

Secondly, having made Himself apparent to your mind without mediation, how could you suggest He’s not who He says He is? Who else besides God could possibly do that? Not even your mind could do that.
looskanal said:
It would seem from this argument that you don’t think that the mind can create anything. So what is it that creates your dreams?
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Mind and body. (Which, if you haven’t noticed, is impossible when you die, since you won’t possess a body.)
looskanal said:
It doesn’t need to create physical reality, only the illusion of physical reality.
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And, being dead, why would the illusion of physical reality have any credence with you? You’d know that you no longer possess physical reality.
looskanal said:
Ah, there you go, I exhibit all the signs of having a physical body and brain, but does that by necessity mean that I do? No, it doesn’t.

The mind is perfectly capable of creating a realistic illusion, and if the mind is rational and coherent, then the illusion that it creates must also be rational and coherent.
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Again, Descartes is weeping to hear your assertion. :roll_eyes:
Bradskii said:
The whole discussion was in regard to atheists attaining heaven. The pope disagrees with your position.
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Actually, it wasn’t. I’m surprised – you usually read closely and critically. The pope was talking about redemption, not “attaining heaven.” There’s a difference. Francis asserted that Jesus’ sacrificial death and resurrection redeemed all persons. That doesn’t mean that all are saved. So, no… Pope Francis doesn’t disagree with me; but he does disagree with your interpretation of his position.
 
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