Atheists delusional?

[IWantGod]

Metaphysical naturalism might be an accurate descriptor of reality… might… but the fact that humans have emotions and feelings for each other and desire their continued existence is…well… a fact. An inescapable fact.

If metaphysical naturalism is true, then the fact that we feel something does not make our behavior, or thoughts, rational. That’s an inescapable fact too.

 

[IWantGod]

you seem blinded?

Why? Because i realize that if metaphysical naturalism is true then our motivations in life make no rational sense?

I argue that you are blinded by your “natural” impulses including your need to survive, so much so that you fail to comprehend the pointlessness and absurdity of everything you say and do because you are living in the illusion that there is a point. You ought to know that life would hardly seem worth it unless you saw some kind off significance in it, and i doubt that you tell yourself that it is just an illusion of your emotions or a fantasy you enjoy.

Better that you say that you are here in life for the experience alone because in various ways you derive pleasure from it, and having hope or faith in God is not a desirable option while you exist. But don’t pretend that you have a rational reason for being here and doing what you do…

 

[pocaracas]

It isn’t? Your brain is telling you to feel something, you are reacting to it. You either have rational reasons to act on those feelings or you don’t.

Are you that desperate?
Can you not comprehend the differing levels of complexity/abstraction of which you are talking about?

The truth is whats relevant is it not?

To you, perhaps. But which truth?

The truth is, your motivations in life do not come from treating reality as it truly is, your motivations begin with how you feel which is made evident by your response…

And how I feel comes about due to how reality truly is.
I accept it as it is.
You, however, seem intent on attacking a strawman.
Should I be a nihilist? why? What do I have to gain from that?

What rational reason do you have to care? You are a part of the universe. I’m not talking about your feelings. I’m talking about the rationality of your behavior in response to your feelings in light of the fact that you are merely an amalgamation of physical processes.

And that amalgamation does as astonishing thing, feelings.
And, with those, I just do care about my own survival and that of my peers, for we are a social animal that has the need to live among others to survive, to stay sane, to propagate…

If metaphysical naturalism is true, then the fact that we feel something does not make our behavior, or thoughts, rational. That’s an inescapable fact too.

Some of them will not be rational… we know that.
Some of them will be rational… we know that too.

Why? Because i realize that if metaphysical naturalism is true then our motivations in life make no rational sense?

They do make sense, at a level which you are not considering.

I argue that you are blinded by your “natural” impulses including your need to survive, so much so that you fail to comprehend the pointlessness and absurdity of everything you say and do because you are living in the illusion that there is a point.

If it is pointless, then why do you care?

If you are trying to get me to become a nihilist, I advise you to give up.

You ought to know that life would hardly seem worth it unless you saw some kind off significance in it

Ought I to know that?
Life is worth purely because I don’t want to die. I know I have to die, but I want to experience as many things as possible before that happens.
Why would I not want to die? Because my brain is wired like that. Why would that be? Because evolution favors those who value themselves and survive and procreate. Why would any animal have ever evolved a sense of self-preservation? because, if one hadn’t, no animal life would exist on this planet so many millions of years after microbial life evolved. That we are here is a testament to that sense.

 

[pocaracas]

Better that you say that you are here in life for the experience alone because in various ways you derive pleasure from it, and having hope or faith in God is not a desirable option while you exist. But don’t pretend that you have a rational reason for being here.

I am but a chain in the great circle of life.
Having hope or faith in a god seem, to me, useless.
God is not required to explain how I got here.
God is not required to explain how I am here.
God is not required.

How is god a rational reason for being here?

 

[IWantGod]

And how I feel comes about due to how reality truly is.

I accept it as it is.

So you accept that metaphysical naturalism is true?

 

[IWantGod]

If you are trying to get me to become a nihilist, I advise you to give up.

Give up making you face the reality of your atheism? I think that everybody here is fully aware by now that you are not capable of seeing things for what they are. It’s not really about you anymore.

 

[IWantGod]

I am but a chain in the great circle of life.

No. You are just an amalgamation of physical processes expressing a specific form. There is nothing great about it.

 

[IWantGod]

Having hope or faith in a god seem, to me, useless.

You have made that clear. You are here to fulfill your emotions and desires and impulses while you exist.

 

[IWantGod]

God is not required to explain how I got here.

That’s your belief. Now that you have made that clear, what exactly is your agenda?

 

[IWantGod]

How is god a rational reason for being here?

I would argue that when faced with nihilism as a necessary consequence of the possibility of metaphysical naturalism, a person may presuppose the existence of God in order to justify his continued existence and make rational sense of his emotional responses and behavior in the world. In other-words, faith can be a response to the human condition. Like i said before, God becomes the point of doing anything. Otherwise there is no rational point to any of this; it just impulses.

You obviously do not require a “point” since you seem quite content with your existence essentially being a user-experience. It’s just a sandbox for your life. Life doesn’t need to make sense to you beyond the fulfillment of your natural desires. It is as you find it.

 

[IWantGod]

They do make sense, at a level which you are not considering.

That level doesn’t exist anywhere accept in your head as a response to your feelings and desires. You are not looking at it objectively which is what people expected of you.

 

[IWantGod]

Some of them will not be rational… we know that.

Some of them will be rational… we know that too.

Given metaphysical naturalism. None of them are rational. They have the illusion of being rational because you are compelled to survive for some unknown reason (there is no objective rational answer) which is itself a product of blind physical processes that have no intentionality for your existence.

 

[IWantGod]

What do I have to gain from that?

I thought it was about truth, not gain.

 

[pocaracas]

What is wrong with you?
8 replies to one of my posts?!
Can’t you reply to everything in one go or edit the previous reply?
I’m sure there’s a forum rule against what you’re doing here, but I don’t care enough to report it… just thought I’d tell you that the last time I saw someone behave compulsively like that, he turned out to be autistic. He’s still a good friend.

That said, onward!

So you accept that metaphysical naturalism is true?

I can’t say. I’m not sure what those two words mean exactly. Based on my limited knowledge of the expression, I’d tentatively go for “yes”.

Give up making you face the reality of your atheism? I think that everybody here is fully aware by now that you are not capable of seeing things for what they are.

I am fully aware of the reality of my atheism. I assure you of that.

It’s not really about you anymore.

What do you mean by this?!

No. You are just an amalgamation of physical processes expressing a specific form. There is nothing great about it.

Which, at a certain abstraction level, can be interpreted as a great circle of life and me and you as a chain in it.

Now that you have made that clear, what exactly is your agenda?

None.
I’m just an amalgamation of blah blah blah…

faith can be a response to the human condition.

Indeed.

Otherwise there is no rational point to any of this; it just impulses.

There you go having to put that “rational” in there. Luckily, we’re not purely rational beings.

That level doesn’t exist anywhere accept in your head as a response to your feelings and desires.

Well then, it exists.

You are not looking at it objectively which is what people expected of you considering that you present yourself as a rational person.

People expect anything from me?! wow! I didn’t know you cared!

I am rational person?! Wow!!! Well… some aspect of me is rational, I must agree, but I am human, so not 100% rational.

Given metaphysical naturalism. None of them are rational.

Care to back that up?
How would our thoughts and behavior not be rational?

 

[pocaracas]

They have the illusion of being rational because you are compelled to survive for some unknown reason

Ah, but you’re not going for thoughts and behavior… you’re going for survival. Why stay alive? Or rather, why contribute to continuation of the species? What’s the ultimate purpose of that? The planet will be consumed by the Sun in 5 billions years, anyway… if humanity manages not to wipe itself out in the meantime…
No ultimate purpose exists, that I can see… But for the here and now, the purpose is to just continue, at least for the experience, at most for the continuation of the species and its eventual, hopeful, evolution…

I thought it was about truth, not gain.

The truth is out there.
But turning into a nihilist would be in me, and I’m not gonna.

 

[IWantGod]

autistic

So now i’m autistic? Ha! Like that has any relevance.

 

[pocaracas]

pocaracas:

autistic

So now i’m autistic? Ha! Like that has any relevance.

That’s not what I said.
But you’ll be glad to know that the other guy I mentioned wouldn’t have misrepresented what I said like that… so whatever you are, it’s not what he is.

 

[IWantGod]

But for the here and now, the purpose is to just continue, at least for the experience, at most for the continuation of the species and its eventual, hopeful, evolution…

Well, like i said, you are just living and doing things because it just so happens that you have feelings and desires. No need to make rational sense of that according to you! And you choose to see some kind of significance in the evolution of the human race. No need to make rational sense of that either according to you.

The Christian, at least i suspect a good number of them, wants to make rational sense of their emotions and desires and why they should continue to exist. Your explanation is that you don’t want to die. For the Christian, a teleological view of reality is the only view that makes sense of the fact that we want to live. In other word’s theism makes sense of our having the kind of emotional qualities that we have because these qualities are essentially goal directed and metaphysical naturalism with no intentionality in the universe does not make sense of the human condition.

 

[IWantGod]

It seems obvious to me that you wanted to imply that my behavior is like someone that is autistic. Why someone would point that out in a debate i don’t know, but i have my suspicions. Perhaps you meant no harm.

 

[IWantGod]

The truth is out there.

X-Files…