Atheists:

[Veritas248]

If it was a test of faith, God being omniscient already knew I would fail, so why test me?

More importantly, if God does play these type of games where he tests my faith, even though he knows how I will respond, then I absolutely want nothing to do with this God who plays pathetic little games with his children to test their loyalty to his invisibleness.

A tad bid hateful, don’t you think? Calm Down.

God does not invade the free will of His creatures. Since we aren’t in the perspective of God, WE don’t know if we will do something or something else before it happens.

Omniscience is not the same as foresight.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Interesting. Well, I’m going to have to ask, what are the similarities you think you found?
As I said before, the main similarities I found were in the moral codes.

Definitely, moral codes. :yup: Also, deities/gods/etc who have died, been dead for a certain amount of time, then, resurrected. That was probably the most amazing aspect of religion! These sons (and, in rare cases, daughters) who have passed away, one way or another, and then are resurrected into heaven. Also, these prophets/deities/children of a god also have performed exorcisms and raised people from the dead and apparently performed other miracles!

Okay, I’m getting a little too excited.

 

[Snerticus]

Listen Snerticus, and Listen well will you:

I am running out of patience with you. Kindly stop telling me what I have to believe about The Real Catholic Church. Let me put it this way, since the new mass was officiated on April 2, 1969 and since about 1970, when fake preists were beginning to be “ordained” under a new form of the sacrament of ordination, I do not have to believe, anymore, anything those goes against traditions, doctrines and dogmas in the NEWCHURCH as it is a Protestan Church now.

I am a sedevacantist, an Orthodox Catholic as are many and that is the only position a real Catholic may hold today, and Call himself a Catholic and be saved. The Vatican Two crowd, including you are “outside the Church.”

***You are to obey everything that the Real Church teaches excepting sin. Get it. Modernism, liberalism, the New Mass, the fake words used in it to concecrate, and a lot more since Vatican II is sinful. You cannot attend the new Mass since nothing takes place in it during the consecration, as the words were changed and they cannot be changed not even by a “pope”. When you attend you are committing the sin of Idolatry as you are worshiping only Bread and Wine, which Cannot be Consecrated under those phony auspices and a different prayer of Consecration. The Council of Trent stated that and to go against anything they published as anathemas ***is disobedience which Paul VI did, and it is a terrible sin. The new Mass is rejected by The Holy Spirit, as it is not A Mass, the Real Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is real, and it was protected, under obedience mind you, ordered by the Council of Trent to be prayed in the form they published only, in perpatuity (for now until the end of the world) and those are the facts. No pope or council can honestly change the Mass, as was done and not be outside the Church and a bonifide heretic!

That’s why it is so easy to say that you and many like you are outside the Catholic Church and are sinners as you do not obey properly, you are blind followers, and that is NOT WHAT JESUS TAUGHT, nor did Saint Paul or any of the Apostles, and most real Vicars of Christ excepting 42 Popes, four of whom have been in the chair of Peter since 1963! and are traitors of the church; no bishops and priests before VATICAN II were allowed to teach modernism, and some did and were supressed. How this came about is a long story, but it can be summed up in one word: disobedience by those in real positions of power inside the Church!

The last four Popes are heretics. And no, the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church; but there may be a very few members left in it. If there was one real Catholic left on the Earth, the Church would still be alive!

You do not know your faith, its tenants and a slew of other facts about what is to be believed and obeyed by a REAL Catholic.

Again: Kindly stop telling me and others, nind you,what the Church Teaches. I know what Steaches–I have studied it deeply, for years. You are committing grave erro when you sput the junk you do about Catholicism so it would be prudent of you to stop until your confusion is abated by some real education concerning the Church of Christ and his Popes and the real Sacraments He Instituted.

B]Blind obedience leads to sinfulness, as it goes against sound reason and the use of a free will, which God does not demand of anybody!

***GOD NEVER VIOLATES THE FREE WILL OF HIS CREATURES. ***

Whether you are aware of it that is what you are implying and that is a lie!

Pope John Paul II was silent about some of the clown-like New Fake Masses he attended, and there are many who have said they are okay to attend and many belive they are approved and they are if no one in rome puts a stop to it. It is the New Church that calls the Novus Ordo Missae a Mass, we real Catholics do not Because It Is Not The One, True Sacrifice. With the new form, anything goes with many people and we have seen that all over the world…

–mhpierce-

Sorry, mhpierce, but you have your OPINION and I have mine. What you think is the truth may not be, and you may be the one decieved. Did you ever stop to think that all your blaming and hatred is making you blind yourself? You may have studied the Church from the moment you were able to read, but that does NOT make you an expert in what the Church teaches. It makes you an expert of what YOU BELIEVE. There are probably thousands of scholars and theologians that have studied longer and harder than you and have come to different conclusions. I am not a scholar. I have said this many times in many threads. But you know what? Sometimes the most simple minded folk without much knowledge are the closest to God.

Now I suggest that if you want to continue this discussion - PLEASE START A NEW THREAD - whith an appropriate title so the moderators don’t shut this thread down. I will gladly join in on the conversation.

 

[Snerticus]

I’m sorry, but that is just too funny!!!

 

[Veritas248]

Definitely, moral codes. :yup: **Also, deities/gods/etc who have died, been dead for a certain amount of time, then, resurrected. That was probably the most amazing aspect of religion! These sons (and, in rare cases, daughters) who have passed away, one way or another, and then are resurrected into heaven. Also, these prophets/deities/children of a god also have performed exorcisms and raised people from the dead and apparently performed other miracles! **

Okay, I’m getting a little too excited.

I’m going to be as charitable as possible in saying that your statements in bold are not entirely true. If taken in context with the rest of the religion, you will find that they aren’t as similar as you thought. It is of critical importance never to make comparisons based on superfluous thoughts.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

I’m going to be as charitable as possible in saying that your statements in bold are not entirely true. If taken in context with the rest of the religion, you will find that they aren’t as similar as you thought. It is of critical importance never to make comparisons based on superfluous thoughts.

My first book on world religions was very Christian slanted, so I’m well aware of key differences. Regardless, many of those authors who write informational books on world religions (even the one with the Christian slant) admitted that they were astounded with the similarities, and I saw their point.

It’s cool, though. It’s understandable that you don’t see the masterpiece of all religions put together side-by-side. Not many people can.

 

[Veritas248]

My first book on world religions was very Christian slanted, so I’m well aware of key differences. Regardless, many of those authors who write informational books on world religions (even the one with the Christian slant) admitted that they were astounded with the similarities, and I saw their point.

It**'s cool, though. It’s understandable that you don’t see the masterpiece of all religions put together side-by-side. Not many people can. **

:ehh:You would do well not to underestimate my knowledge… There are far more differences between religions then there are similarities.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

:ehh:You would do well not to underestimate my knowledge… There are far more differences between religions then there are similarities.

I’m really talking about a general picture; to see religion as an artwork, and perhaps that is the difference between me and you. You take it literally (in a way ); you want evidence and concrete knowledge. I take a lot of it figuratively; I want to feel like there’s something out there-- which I already do: I feel like there is a higher being out there, but I feel confident in saying that it is far more than you think it is and nothing that anyone could ever understand or possibly know without adding bias.

…wow, how did we get here?

 

[Veritas248]

I’m signing off early today. I have other things to do.
Until tomorrow…

 

[Veritas248]

I’m really talking about a general picture; to see religion as an artwork, and perhaps that is the difference between me and you. You take it literally (in a way ); you want evidence and concrete knowledge. I take a lot of it figuratively; I want to feel like there’s something out there-- which I already do: I feel like there is a higher being out there, but I feel confident in saying that it is far more than you think it is and nothing that anyone could ever understand or possibly know without adding bias.

…wow, how did we get here?

That will do it. As I said before, I don’t place a lot of weight on feelings. I do not consider them sufficient when you are studying things that may reflect reality.

Now as I said, I’m outta here.

 

[josie_L]

If it was a test of faith, God being omniscient already knew I would fail, so why test me?

More importantly, if God does play these type of games where he tests my faith, even though he knows how I will respond, then I absolutely want nothing to do with this God who plays pathetic little games with his children to test their loyalty to his invisibleness.

I myself was (still am) tested, and although I have struggled with trials and tribulations all my life long, happiness and a reinvigorated faith is eventually the fruit of perseverance. I admit to having fallen into despair and full-fledged anger (I even swore at God how angry I was at Him) in the past but I have and am learning to bear with patience and equanimity all that comes my way. I know I have learnt so much through suffering.

 

[mhpierce]

PLEASE START A NEW THREAD - whith an appropriate title

so the moderators don’t shut this thread down. I will gladly join in on the conversation.

Snerticus;4996065]:

I am leaving after this post is written as I have already said good-by.

Now Read This Carefully.

*** The Catholic Religion, the One True Faith, is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of obedience to God’s Revelations, His ten commandments, His Churches’ Commandments, which are six, and obedience to those The Holy Spirit has given authentic authority.

So the rest of what you say is nonsense, as you assume a falsehood: that I have opinions about Catholicism. I obey commandments and I deal in facts. Those who are one with doctrine are also obedient and have eschewed opinions,** as it is enough for us to practice our wonderful Faith.

It matters not to me what you think I feel or what I sound like, as I joined this Thread to evangelize what is Revealed and what I have learned since Vatican Two. Read my posts; sterness of fact is not hatred, I am hardly blind about my Faith, and I am rather unsympathetic to those who study well in other subjects, but know so little about Church History and God and What is the Real Faith that Must be Practiced while we are alive, to give just one of many examples; but to pretend they do know, when their writing is devoid of even the simplist truths about the Real Church, is pure arrogance and a lie.

I am sorry if you are so angry, I have no control over how you handle facts, or truths you find hard to accept.(your tone was real sour! in the above post).

There are many out there that agree with me, but so what? I am not now, nor have I been for some time now, a respector of man’s “opinions.” especially about what has happened the last forty years in the Vatican II Fake Catholic Church. I lived through it and I know the difference between the real thing and the fake… I was taught that an opinion was based on facts, as mine are concerning, especially, the Church, atheism and what the Church has always and can only teach, through its real and genuine Popes and ministers–the Truths of Christ’s Gospel…* The authentic Priests, Bishops and Popes have always taught the same doctrine; the heritics do not.

**You have no way of determining how long and hard I have studied anything, much less Church History and you have no business comparing me to others about whom you know nothing, in terms of their length of study. That is fatuous, to say the least… I can assure you, those who have studied as I have and are not heretics, are genuine–we all are in unison and there is little if any tension between us.U] That statement of yours is nothing but anger, supplied by arrogance.

I have never lied to anyone on this Thread, and I had no intention of putting myself up as any more of an authority on Church Doctrine than anyone else who has certain authority by using the immense knowledge available to all, a great deal of which many here know too little… It is a Catholic’s duty to know the Faith, its doctrines, dogmas and traditions, what is and is not and can never be acceptable. Admixtures of facts(truths) and heresy are not acceptable, but to many today they are!!!

Thanks For Listening, as I have enjoyed your visits. Did you read my last Post? I mentioned you.

God bless you
mhpierce.**

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

I have problems with False Teachers, Arrogant, Vatican Two Priests who lie, with members of family and others who think they know history and do not, especially when it comes to Sacred history and Catholicism, who cannot stand up for what they know is not in The Deposit of Faith; they cannot expalin why the changes were necessary and they refuse to accept the Great Apostasy for what it is. I call men and women like that cowards. And they are also deeply deluded and luke warm Catholics anyway, as a fervent Catholic would at the very least, agree with us who know what happened.

What will it ever take to convince you that what I have emparted is the Truth and what is the Real Church and that its real followers, who support its traditions and doctrines completely ***now are few and far between. *** Re-read all that I have said on this Thread.

I did not mean to insult you–but you are so uneducated about the tenants and the Deposit of Faith that you profess. I am sorry my friend, but I tell you the truth and if that insults you, I cannot help that. Hards truths are still Charitable, even if you do not think so–for what does it profit me to spend so much time with you whne you are so incorigable? I want your immortal soul saved that’s all.

You are, and too many other on this site, in a word, a Protestant and you adhere to hersey and heretics and attend a False Mass that does not supply you with Sanctifying Grace.

I say this out of charity, as you need to hear it boldly, so it might penetrate and then you might do something to change, to forgoe the NEWCHURCH crowd for starters.
in essence, you are deeply brainwahed by The Vatican Two Church.

And by the way, I have always loved my Faith and I left a Seminary and Catholic education in 1970 because of what was taking place that was not Catholic; I assure you, and my mother knew it as well as other people then when I applied to enter this Seminary,in 1966, the priests and the others who were hired to teach there were already anticipating the supposed changes in liturgy, for example, that were implemented all over the world and it was very hard on us, as we were young and deeply impressionable. We were deeply confused and many have remained that way for forty something years and that is also tragic. I thank God for my mother and what she said after Vatican Two closed and what she said about the NEWCHURCH and its fake Mass and many other “things” that were taking place.

Many left the Seminary and the Church and many of the priest who taught me and I knew, who were ordained, left the Faith in droves here (Rochester,NY)Many refused or could not rectifiy themselves with what was taking place, as they knew something was deeply wrong. In two words: it was heresy and disobedience to CatholicTradition, that caused so many to leave the Church back then. You have to experience something like this, which really was unique, to understand it visceraly.

Calmly,
mhpierce

YOU ARE LYING. Why do you even post with your terrible negativity? We don’t agree with what you say. You have a terrible persecution problem with the One, Holy , Catholic and Apostolic church.

 

[phantasm]

**YOU ARE LYING. **

That thar be fightin’ words.

Guys, come one, why don’t you just sing a nice ’ Koom bae ah my Lord’ and turn thy other cheek?

 

[mhpierce]

YOU ARE LYING. Why do you even post with your terrible negativity? We don’t agree with what you say. You have a terrible persecution problem with the One, Holy , Catholic and Apostolic church.

My Dear, Derisive, Defensive, Redundant and Deluded OneTrueCathApos;5000081:

I have read all of your posts.

Is this one to me the best you can do?

I tell the truth and never lie, I am honest to a fault and my friends and family will attest to that, as well as will Bishop Giles Butler and Bishop Louis Vezelis. Many deeply dislike my honesty and my insistance upon being factual; also, and note well, many people I have encountered, too many, they know they are guilty of too much mediocraty, complancy, and do not want their consciences and their queer notions disturbed and challenged, when it comes to their lives as they have planned them, especially with the NEWCHURCH crowd. They say they are happy with things as they are, but they are also deeply disturbed, many of them, whth a great deal that has “changed” or is now accepted in “The Church” the past thirty years or so… But too many of them do nothing about it… That’s why we have such a mess on our hands, and please, do not say we do not; that will take your delusionaol meter numbers over the top!

Now you are a mind reader or a psychologist: I have a persecution complex!

Terrible negativity? That’s almost a redundancy; but I am sorry if the many truths and the sins I write about are are ugly, disdainful. If you do not like the truth about what happened during and after Vatican II and prefer to live in a dream world about certain real, heretical and evil popes and bishops and a slew of other facts, then that’s your problem.—

—It is obviously not mine, as I can accept them for what they are, even if it angers and saddens me, but yet their poor and dangerous leadership requires that I, and the two Bishops I have named, to definitively defend the real Faith of Christ, not the worldly, watertered down, heretically laden version many of you practice!

I truly feel sorry for you and others.

I just could not resist responding to you adolescent and innane commentary!

-mhpierce–

 

[phantasm]

My Dear, Derisive, Defensive, Redundant and Deluded OneTrueCathApos;5000081:

I have read all of your posts.

Is this one to me the best you can do?

I tell the truth and never lie, I am honest to a fault and my friends and family will attest to that, as well as will Bishop Giles Butler and Bishop Louis Vezelis. Many deeply dislike my honesty and my insistance upon being factual; also, and note well, many people I have encountered, too many, they know they are guilty of too much mediocraty, complancy, and do not want their consciences and their queer notions disturbed and challenged, when it comes to their lives as they have planned them, especially with the NEWCHURCH crowd. They say they are happy with things as they are, but they are also deeply disturbed, many of them, whth a great deal that has “changed” or is now accepted in “The Church” the past thirty years or so… But too many of them do nothing about it… That’s why we have such a mess on our hands, and please, do not say we do not; that will take your delusionaol meter numbers over the top!

Now you are a mind reader or a psychologist: I have a persecution complex!

Terrible negativity? That’s almost a redundancy; but I am sorry if the many truths and the sins I write about are are ugly, disdainful. If you do not like the truth about what happened during and after Vatican II and prefer to live in a dream world about certain real, heretical and evil popes and bishops and a slew of other facts, then that’s your problem.—

—It is obviously not mine, as I can accept them for what they are, even if it angers and saddens me, but yet their poor and dangerous leadership requires that I, and the two Bishops I have named, to definitively defend the real Faith of Christ, not the worldly, watertered down, heretically laden version many of you practice!

I truly feel sorry for you and others.

I just could not resist responding to you adolescent and innane commentary!

-mhpierce–

Hey, what happened to the golden rule, or turning the other cheek, or forgiving 77 times or just plain being nice!

You guys are great role models for us atheists!

 

[bradwill911]

No one claims that they are not a sinner, we all know that we are sinners. Lack of Christian charity doesn’t disprove Christianity, it only provides evidence that we need a Savior.

I agree, though, that a lack of Christian charity among Christians and displayed by Christians to non-Christians is contrary to Christ’s teachings and is a poor witness of the faith to the non-Christians, like you, who read these posts. I’m a severely flawed person as well, but please accept this as an apology.

Pax Christi,
Brad

 

[mhpierce]

Hey, what happened to the golden rule, or turning the other cheek, or forgiving 77 times or just plain being nice!

You guys are great role models for us atheists!

Thank you for the compliment; yes, I have been told that I am a good role model, and now for atheists. … that’s A GOOD THING TOO! thank you–

BUT I do not cotton to compliments, for I do not need them as long as my conscience is clear, and it is…

The golden rule requires we tell the truth, even if it hurts; Saint John the Baptist was stern, but sternness in Truth is Charity; it’s just that it takes a large, black frying pan, slathered in Charity grease, to bang some facts into certain heads that refuse to accept things and situations as they are, instead of the way some people “think” they are… as they refuse to see that anything could be wrong, say, with the present Church in Rome.( please: do not respond and say I am compariing myself to a Saint; I am speaking of his methods. We are living is similar times as he did, and his methods got him the ax!).

Being nice? What’s wrong with the TRUTH, that’s what’s nice!

That snootybritches who called me a liar is just unwilling to look at facts–and boy, snooty has a lot of company today…

I have got to go to prayers and then to bed-- i have to get up at 4:00 AM…
God bless You All…

P. S.

Ah, lookit Bradtheist! You’re are a good guy, I can tell… I have “insights” at times, but don’t tell anyone–it’s a gift from God! Insight: I know one day you will “get there,” it’s in the stars!

mhpierce

 

[WarriorAngel]

I started studying about two years ago. In my sophomore year. It was fun exploring faiths I thought were different than mine. I still remember how amazed I was at the striking similarities, and I really did appreciate the sense of unity I had with people of other faiths. Even then, I was a “liberal,” so perhaps, either way, I would have fallen away from the Church.

I find a strong correlation between liberals and athiesm.
Because a liberal will most often live in a belief of relativity…they often allow for that to let them struggle.

Seen it so many times.
More often than not - liberal Catholics often struggle more frequently and eventually become agnostic or athiest.

Why is that?
I feel its the relative modern approach to all things.

[true liberals of the Church expect change to modernism…and do not or cannot comprehend that like God - the Church doesnt change]

Definitely, moral codes. :yup: Also, deities/gods/etc who have died, been dead for a certain amount of time, then, resurrected. That was probably the most amazing aspect of religion! These sons (and, in rare cases, daughters) who have passed away, one way or another, and then are resurrected into heaven. Also, these prophets/deities/children of a god also have performed exorcisms and raised people from the dead and apparently performed other miracles!

Okay, I’m getting a little too excited.

Satan can imitate what God has created.

Most folks involved in paganism will also usually be involved in necromancy, and divination.
Perfect toys of evil to manipulate the creation.

I was involved in that stuff once - i know what I am talking about.

There are not any gods, those are demons.
And if the stories are true - you will also have to admit it has to do with the imitation of the demons to follow the pattern of what Heaven can do.
[they were once angels - so they have some powers]

I knew of this guy who was discussing the power of God vs the other one. The woman said her ‘god’ was powerful and she asked for a mirror to crack and splinter and it did.
The man - unfettered - said the Lord is more powerful and he asked for the mirror to be put back together and it was.

Now who was more amazing?

These powers are real in the world.

Who you choose to believe is the path you want.
But just because they can imitate - doesn’t mean the power is long lasting or for good.

Personally - i tend to understand that ‘miracles’ if thats the true word can occur outside of the realm of this world and so humanity is easily beguiled.
[BUT remember - miracles from God are for the good of man and are long lasting]

IF that were not true - then satan wouldnt have been successful in the 1st place.

Jesus warned us - in the end times - [which means even prior to this] much of humanity will be led astray by wonders…

Matthew 24
24 For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect.

There is a spiritual warfare going on. The prize is the human soul.

IF the Christian is wrong [which we are not] then we have lost nothing.
If the athiest is wrong - then they have lost their eternity to suffering.

Eternity is a mighty long time - never ending.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Hey, what happened to the golden rule, or turning the other cheek, or forgiving 77 times or just plain being nice!

You guys are great role models for us atheists!

DO not look to the earth - to humans who are faulted for what is true - look to Heaven.

Expecting perfection from a sinful and faulted human as a guage for truth can wreak havoc on any walk or journey to God.

Even priests - hear what they say when they preach - and pray for them that they lead even thru their daily lives.
Its not that anyone will ever be the perfect role model - its that we want to be that should count.

If i based my faith on others - i probably wouldnt be where i am. Hence my signature.

I am the very 1st to admit - my faults are many - but my love is there.