Baby Crying during Mass Homily

[Hieronymi]

Again, here is a link to an article I read in September.

“Children don’t Belong in a Cry Room and Neither do You” Click here

 

[agnes_therese]

How do you know they were extremely rude? It is not like they pinched the baby. It is not even like there is a protocol or rule of propriety. In our parish, for example, this would have been totally acceptable. I am all for defending the priest from the attack he is under, but not at the expense of judging someone else.

Well, if you don’t think it’s rude to ignore Father’s first two requests to go to the cry room,when they could have gone even before he had to ask, that’s your take. Many of us obviously think it was rude.
And as many often say here at CAF, judging actions is not the same as judging people.

 

[pnewton]

And as many often say here at CAF, judging actions is not the same as judging people.

How does one judge actions without the facts? Did the priest just mention the availability of the cry room? Was the woman aware that the priest was talking to her and made this request?

Would you say that a crying baby would distract you from the homily? If so, then surely it might distract the mother trying to quiet the baby to the point that she was not even aware that the priest was asking her to leave, or even aware that any priest might make such a request. Most priest I know would never ask, much less order, a baby be removed for being too noisy.

So no, I do not agree that anyone here is capable of passing judgment here on anything but theoretical situations.

 

[HB11]

:thumbsup:Well put

I do agree with you and others who say that a priest (or anyone in any public gathering) shouldn’t call any one person or family out and humiliate them. Perhaps a general call for quiet in the nave would have been a little more appropriate and much more effective. Or perhaps the priest could have asked the congregation in general to offer assistance to those in the congregation who have rambunctious little ones.

I have to say something here though–parents have to develop a very thick skin. For the next 18 years, if they allow their children to be exposed to the real world, they will experience situations where people criticize, scream at, bully, make fun of, give bad grades to, bench, not give the job or scholarship or part or solo, etc.to their kids.

They need to get used to it. They can’t just keep quitting every church, school, sports team, restaurant, neighborhood, etc. that doesn’t treat their child like the cat’s pajamas. And we need to remember that as the U.S. continues to become more diverse, that there are cultures in which children do NOT rule.

 

[Cruciferi]

I realize that it may seem harsh; however, he did warn them before demanding some respect. I’m sorry but I would completely agree with the priests actions. He’s giving a spiritual lecture about, hopefully, important material and he’s being interrupted.

I hate it when people turn God’s house into a daycare where there’s noise, toys, and games! Seriously people, this is disrespectful and shameful. Remove yourself and the child for God’s sake!

 

[Discerning13]

If I become a priest, I would dissolve any “Church Council” at my Parish.

They seem to think that they decide how a priest acts and what he does.
He is the one in persona Christi and if he thinks it’s taking away from the dignity and glory of the mass, he should be able to call it out.

God willing I will someday be a priest and be the Pastor at a Parish.

Pray for me

-Joel

 

[pnewton]

If I become a priest, I would dissolve any “Church Council” at my Parish.

They seem to think that they decide how a priest acts and what he does.
He is the one in persona Christi and if he thinks it’s taking away from the dignity and glory of the mass, he should be able to call it out.

God willing I will someday be a priest and be the Pastor at a Parish.

Pray for me

-Joel

Financial Councils are a requirement. However, they should be restricted to financial matters. Pastoral Councils are common, but not required. Where they exist, they should only serve at the pleasure of the priest and for the purpose of supporting the priest.

 

[revert_jen]

OK. Let’s talk about this.

. . .]

Awesome post, Cat. Thanks!

–Jen

 

[kita04]

If I become a priest, I would dissolve any “Church Council” at my Parish.

Then it would have been called “The Church Women’s Meeting?” Take away the name of the group will not help.

 

[pnewton]

Then it would have been called “The Church Women’s Meeting?” Take away the name of the group will not help.

A parish is not required to have a parish council by any name. Nothing can stop women getting together for the purpose of gossip, but gossip is not something that can stopped by fiat any more than hypocrisy can.

 

[mommamaree]

The culture today is very much over sensitive, over offended, over entitled, demanding much respect without giving much and a general lack of humility and self awareness.

If I were the parents I would have been very vocal at defending the priest who embarrassed me and humbling myself for whatever error I may have unintentionally caused and defusing any gossiping etc. immediately. But that’s just me, I dont think everything is about me nor do I think I’m that important, I would be thinking of the parish as a whole.

I do agree there could have been more delicate ways to handle this, but I respect the Priests decision to do what he needed to do since the parents were not. I think this could have been avoided. I agree with OP the parents and the priest should both humble themselves, forgive each other and learn from each other. Good can always come out of bad, we should will it so.

Absolutely agree with everything you have said here!

 

[mommamaree]

I have had two humiliating experiences with my children at Mass, and I would never stop going to Mass at my parish, or any parish that we regularly attend, just because of that. At one Mass, we were sitting in the first row, and the priest caught my oldest daughter mindlessly ETCHING THE PEW WITH A PEN! My husband and I were attending to her younger siblings and listening to the readings. We noticed the look of horror on the face of the priest who saw her destructive behavior, and he motioned at her and we quickly looked and took away the pen and whispered instructions and told her we would be having a serious talk when we got home. After Mass, when we were going through the reception line to greet the priest, he gripped my hand firmly and looked me in the eye and in front of everyone said that we should never again bring any pens or pencils or even crayons to church. I apologized profusely and promised we would deal with it. Of course we were mortified, but he was absolutely right! We continued to go to that parish, which we attended when the Masses were better times than at our home parish. That priest has since passed away. He was a good priest and I believe sternness is sometimes warranted. It sounds to me that in the situation being discussed in this thread, the priest was right to be stern.

 

[felsguy]

OK. Let’s talk about this.

My husband and I raised two children, and they were the apples of our eyes. We loved them supremely and poured our hearts and souls into doing the very best job we could to raise them up to be godly women. I am happy to say that for the most part, we did it right. They have flaws, and I can see how they acquired some of those flaws from their flawed parents. But for the most part, they are healthy, happy, productive members of society who are reverent to God and generous to their fellow man.

During their childhood, we were very aware that our children were NOT the center of the very universe, and we did NOT expect everyone else to love, adore, and make allowances for them.

I am appalled to see so many parents bringing children to events and places that in the past, have been adult havens, and then expect the adults to put up with sobbing, fussing, whining, wiggling, running around, throwing things, and generally acting like perfectly normal children.

Just a few weeks ago, I attended a piano concert (performed by an adult pianist, not a child), and a couple actually brought a baby (around 10 months old) to the recital. Amazingly, the baby wasn’t quiet or still! What a shock! I’m sure this couple thought that their child would be the exception to all other silly little 10-month olds, and that their child would love every minute of the piano recital and listen quietly and sit perfectly still.

Of course that didn’t happen. The child acted like most normal 10-month old babies.

It was tense for the pianist and for the audience, and eventually, FINALLY, the young mother took the baby into the lobby. We could hear the little one sobbing and running around for the rest of the recital.

What were these parents thinking?!

This happens all the time at nice restaurants. We go out for a late night dinner and relaxing time, and someone inevitably has a baby or a toddler with them. Now maybe all of your children were different, but my children considered eating an “interruption” in their fun. They hated sitting down and actually eating something. If they could have stayed alive by never eating, they would have done so! So while they were very young, we didn’t take them to restaurants where the primary goal is to sit down and eat a meal. We waited until they were old enough to eat their food without throwing it around the room, stay seated, join in the conversation, and not have a tantrum when something didn’t go their way. We did this out of courtesy to all the other people who want to eat a meal in peace (especially if they are paying a lot for that meal!).

Now I realize that the Mass is not a “performance,” or a “restaurant,” and that children are indeed, full members of the parish and are welcome to be at Mass at all stages of their lives.

And I realize that Eucharist is the Summit of the Holy Mass, and that we do not need to have peace and quiet to receive abundant graces from the Mass.

But the rest of the Mass is important, too. There are TWO parts to the Mass, the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist. And the Liturgy of the Word involves HEARING the Word. I don’t see that many Catholics who bring their Bibles to Mass, or who even bother to follow along in a missalette.

And as I have said several times already, for many Catholics, Mass is their ONLY catechesis throughout the entire week. Shame on them for not doing more work to get better catechized, but that’s just the way it is for many Catholics. They’re fulfilling their obligation, and good for them for doing that much.

I have no problem with babies and little ones acting their age in the Mass. But when babies and little ones are obviously in distress, crying and fussing, or screaming and trying to escape the grasp of their parents, then it’s time for the parents to recognize that others in the room are just as important as their children, and take those little ones out and help them to calm down and be happy again before bringing them back into the nave.

I agree that the priest was a little too “short” with the parents. But I’m guessing that perhaps the priest shares my viewpoint–that others in the nave are important, too, and that there are times when parents have to accept that their little one is not the center of the universe.

 

[babochka]

If I become a priest, I would dissolve any “Church Council” at my Parish.

-Joel

Your bishop might have something to say about that. Everybody is under authority and in most cases, it is the bishop who mandates the details of the advisory board, not the priest.

Besides, a wise leader will seek the advice and counsel of those he serves, in order to make the best decision.

 

[babochka]

A parish is not required to have a parish council by any name. Nothing can stop women getting together for the purpose of gossip, but gossip is not something that can stopped by fiat any more than hypocrisy can.

I don’t know about your diocese, but our bishop requires that each parish have an advisory board and a finance council. The details of this are spelled out in our eparchial handbook. The priest has a bit of leeway as to who is on the board and how often they meet, and he has the only decision making authority, but the existence of the board is required.

 

[FrenzyJen]

Has it been suggested that perhaps, in their attempts to rein in their own children, they genuinely did not hear the priest’s first few requests? When I actually get to stay inside the church for the homily, I rarely get to actually listen. This may have very well been the case.

 

[hotdiggity]

i’ve only ever seen a Priest ask someone to take a crying baby out of Mass once and it was similar to the OP in that the woman with the child continued sitting in the pew with the wailing infant as Father asked several times if she wouldn’t mind taking the baby to the cry room (which is really just our lobby, behind glass doors with speakers)

i heard various opinions on the matter later, ranging from complete shock that Father could be so mean to approval that he did something about the screaming infant.

when a child screams to such an extent that Mass is disrupted and the parents or caretakers aren’t working to quiet the little one, Father has to step in and ask that they do something rather than have the Mass disrupted…fussy babies are one thing…shrieking, wailing babies who do not quiet down are an altogether different animal…and it’s in those cases that Father has to step in if the noise doesn’t cease…

 

[TheDoctor]

If I become a priest, I would dissolve any “Church Council” at my Parish.

They seem to think that they decide how a priest acts and what he does.
He is the one in persona Christi and if he thinks it’s taking away from the dignity and glory of the mass, he should be able to call it out.

God willing I will someday be a priest and be the Pastor at a Parish.

Pray for me

-Joel

Joel - I admire your ardor and passion. If you become a priest (and I will add my prayers for you) you will find that your opinions will most likely change during your formation years. I know of no parish in any diocese that does not run without the support of a faithful and involved layity councils (Finance, Parish, Stewardship, Service, PREP, Home & School, Liturgy, Music, etc.) You will find when you become a Pastor that these groups, when used widely, allow you to concentrate on your primary mission of being Jesus to us.

 

[CountrySinger]

OK. Let’s talk about this.

My husband and I raised two children, and they were the apples of our eyes. We loved them supremely and poured our hearts and souls into doing the very best job we could to raise them up to be godly women. I am happy to say that for the most part, we did it right. They have flaws, and I can see how they acquired some of those flaws from their flawed parents. But for the most part, they are healthy, happy, productive members of society who are reverent to God and generous to their fellow man.

During their childhood, we were very aware that our children were NOT the center of the very universe, and we did NOT expect everyone else to love, adore, and make allowances for them.

I am appalled to see so many parents bringing children to events and places that in the past, have been adult havens, and then expect the adults to put up with sobbing, fussing, whining, wiggling, running around, throwing things, and generally acting like perfectly normal children.

Just a few weeks ago, I attended a piano concert (performed by an adult pianist, not a child), and a couple actually brought a baby (around 10 months old) to the recital. Amazingly, the baby wasn’t quiet or still! What a shock! I’m sure this couple thought that their child would be the exception to all other silly little 10-month olds, and that their child would love every minute of the piano recital and listen quietly and sit perfectly still.

Of course that didn’t happen. The child acted like most normal 10-month old babies.

It was tense for the pianist and for the audience, and eventually, FINALLY, the young mother took the baby into the lobby. We could hear the little one sobbing and running around for the rest of the recital.

What were these parents thinking?!

This happens all the time at nice restaurants. We go out for a late night dinner and relaxing time, and someone inevitably has a baby or a toddler with them. Now maybe all of your children were different, but my children considered eating an “interruption” in their fun. They hated sitting down and actually eating something. If they could have stayed alive by never eating, they would have done so! So while they were very young, we didn’t take them to restaurants where the primary goal is to sit down and eat a meal. We waited until they were old enough to eat their food without throwing it around the room, stay seated, join in the conversation, and not have a tantrum when something didn’t go their way. We did this out of courtesy to all the other people who want to eat a meal in peace (especially if they are paying a lot for that meal!).

Now I realize that the Mass is not a “performance,” or a “restaurant,” and that children are indeed, full members of the parish and are welcome to be at Mass at all stages of their lives.

And I realize that Eucharist is the Summit of the Holy Mass, and that we do not need to have peace and quiet to receive abundant graces from the Mass.

But the rest of the Mass is important, too. There are TWO parts to the Mass, the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist. And the Liturgy of the Word involves HEARING the Word. I don’t see that many Catholics who bring their Bibles to Mass, or who even bother to follow along in a missalette.

And as I have said several times already, for many Catholics, Mass is their ONLY catechesis throughout the entire week. Shame on them for not doing more work to get better catechized, but that’s just the way it is for many Catholics. They’re fulfilling their obligation, and good for them for doing that much.

I have no problem with babies and little ones acting their age in the Mass. But when babies and little ones are obviously in distress, crying and fussing, or screaming and trying to escape the grasp of their parents, then it’s time for the parents to recognize that others in the room are just as important as their children, and take those little ones out and help them to calm down and be happy again before bringing them back into the nave.

I agree that the priest was a little too “short” with the parents. But I’m guessing that perhaps the priest shares my viewpoint–that others in the nave are important, too, and that there are times when parents have to accept that their little one is not the center of the universe.

I love you Cat. If I have kids, they will not be allowed anywhere unless they can behave. The moment they don’t behave, we are gone and there will be consequences.

 

[Corki]

I don’t know about your diocese, but our bishop requires that each parish have an advisory board and a finance council. The details of this are spelled out in our eparchial handbook. The priest has a bit of leeway as to who is on the board and how often they meet, and he has the only decision making authority, but the existence of the board is required.

In our diocese, only the finance committee is mandatory. My parish has both a pastoral council and a finance committee. The pastor has complete discretion as to who sits on each. The finance committee has some duties spelled out by the diocese but other than that, the councils serve the pastor.

If we had one of those committees try to force something on the pastor and/or directly criticize him, the members would be promptly replaced with other people who understood better the role of an advisory committee.