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SPOKENWORD
Guest
I guess you do want to have fun with this? Please rememember not to grieve the Holy spirit in our conversation.Is that a “yes” and a “Yes”
a “Yes” and “no”
a “no” and “yes”
or a “no” and “no”
??
I guess you do want to have fun with this? Please rememember not to grieve the Holy spirit in our conversation.Is that a “yes” and a “Yes”
a “Yes” and “no”
a “no” and “yes”
or a “no” and “no”
??
There aren’t many mentions of speaking in tongues in the early church (guess it wasn’t as wide spread as Charasmatics would have you believe), but we have the following (bolding mine):How can you judge whether someone’s experience is fake or genuine? You are really hung up on harassing people who have experienced tongues (based on your posts on all the threads related to this matter) and yet you have not responded to my post where I asked you to provide documentation where the Church has denounced the Charismatic Renewal or tongues. You keep referring to YOUR understanding of I Cor 14:27-28. If that is your opinion, fine, but don’t try to elevate to the level of Church teaching unless you can back it up.
That is not an answer.I guess you do want to have fun with this? Please rememember not to grieve the Holy spirit in our conversation.
I’ve seen none of your post that is adressed to me goes unanswered.Vitus,
Thanks for the concrete information. Beng is so bent on his crusade to point out others’ faults that he missed the point of my posts.
You have not give me alternate possible interpretation on the verse.My big beef on this thread has been the self-righteous tone of some posts and the suggestion that personal interpretation (literal or not) of Scripture verses taken out of context rise to the level of infallibility.
What is their interpretation on 1Cor 14:27-28?You pointed out yourself that Scripture verses cannot be taken out of context. This works both ways. Folks in the Renewal often read a lot into certain key verses and critics often do the same. Interestingly, both sides use the same Chapter in I Cor to make their arguments.
JimO said:“Why are you avoiding? Got something to hide?”
Arrogant, self-righteous comments like this do nothing to convince someone of your point. If you speak like this to unbelievers, it would hardly attract them to the faith.
Vitus said:beng, I understand your ire and as you see, we are on the same side of the arguement. And it is difficult for me not to get throw down, table turning angry myself. But if I may, can I say your approaching this wrong. As an ex-fundamental, trying to counter with biblical interpretation and ONLY biblical interpretation is a no-win situation. Because of the level of self-interpretation that conincides with the current all-but-silence on the particulars of the Catholic Charismatic movement by the Vatican, using select verses will not work. They will counter with their own interpretation, with their own experiences, with their own feelings and with their perceived lack of your personal experience in the movement.
You are not only dealing with people’s minds (which are hard enough to change) but with people’s emotions. Deeply personal emotions that their meetings and get togethers foster. It’s a very uphill battle, and taking an offensive position only leads in their retreat.
People want to be closer to God. They seek it out in many ways and under many guises. That is a good thing. When they think they’ve found a better path, it’s damn near impossible to get them off it. Telling them sternly to check their map when their heart’s compass is leading them isn’t going to work.
Personally, I don’t think the Charismatic movement is genuine. Too many thinks counter it. Knowledge of what was going on in Corinth and why Paul was saying the things he did, what the early church fathers said on the subject, the lack of tongues and such for over 1600 years only to manifest itself in Protestantism in the 1900s, the lack of linguistic evidence that this glossoholia resembles any type of real language (in words or structure) and the relative newness in Catholic circles (40 years in a 2000 year history isn’t much) all run counter to this movement. Yes, many of these Charismatic meetings run counter to 1 Corinthians, yes the idea of a “personal prayer language” runs directly against what Paul said tongues were about, but there is much, much more to it than that.
I hope this doesn’t upset you too much or seem like I’m taking a holier than thou attitude. Far from it. But when fighting the good fight, I just want to make sure my companions have all their weapons at hand and know the best way to use it.
There is a better way.
The gift of tongues is not granted to every individual.check out:
davenevins.com/loveofgod/top…matic-gifts.htm
presentationministries.com/brochures/Tongues.asp
The gift of tongues is available to all! I personally have found the gift VERY beneficial in building my relationship with God. I highly recommend you read the above links!
Not suprising since the modern Charismatic movements has it’s roots in Protestantism.Wow!!
I’m Catholic and I’ve been baptized by the Holy Spirit…Ha! I’ve got it all. Praise God. These words are mine but they are also the words used by Alex Jones (a former Protestant minister, now Catholic)…
Received messages in tongues? Exactly what does that entail. And what exactly is the gift of Praise?I also have the gift of tongues to Praise God in the highest. I’ve personally never received messages in tongues, just have the gift of Praise. (ohh sooo bad)…
Please give ONE instance where anyone said that striving to be closer to God is wrong.The prayer group I belong to are beautiful people…who are striving for holiness. (and this in wrong)??
How very unbiblical and unhistorical.God wants us to be open to ALL the gifts he has for us…
Are you suggesting that others aren’t?And I thank Him for allowing me to be open to the Holy Spirit…
I am offended by this statement. Who are you to say what other’s understanding of God is?My arguement is that alot of people just don’t understand who the Holy Spirit…
How very, very judgemental of you. So now not only don’t people understand, but they are disrepectful and pompous?! And here I thought only God sees the hearts of men!Well let me say…we have more respect and reverence in our little finger…than the rest of the 100 people or so who attend. So we’re wrong and all you pompous people who are in another world at Mass, are right…Afraid not.
If you are so into Masses why are you noticing other people and their actions? How many Catholics are you talking to in your “little church in the country”?Us charismatics (that I know) would and HAVE sat through Charismatic Masses for 3 hrs… and loved every minute of it…and not looked at our watches every 5 min to see how long this Mass will be.
I’m sorry but there are times when Catholics get upset when Mass is longer than 45 min…Us Charismatics would gladly be there for hours…
Open up your dictionary and look up the word “hyporcrite”.Anyway I’m not usually so pushy but people who have no idea who the Holy Spirit is…always condemn, because they just don’t get it…Do Not Judge…
Snuffy
Interesting combination of comments Snuffy. I was involved in the Charismatic Renewal and have had a lot of good things to say about it on several threads, but I just have to comment on this. Just because Charismatics are more demonstrative in no way means that they are more respectful and reverent. I know some very godly people whose prefered mode of worship is contemplative in nature. In Mass these folks might appear to the average Charismatic as stilted and stuffy, but I learned the hard way a long time ago that nobody knows the heart. I’ve also known some irreverent Catholic Charismatics.Well let me say…we have more respect and reverence in our little finger…than the rest of the 100 people or so who attend. …Do Not Judge…
Snuffy