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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Hi Fiat, Making choices are examples of our free will.Do babys make choices they understand?
God Bless
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God Bless
L
Lisa4Catholics
Guest
Hello, spokenHi Fiat, Making choices are examples of our free will.Do babys make choices?
Did all the male Jewish baby’s have a free will to be circumcised?God bless
F
Fiat
Guest
Hey SPOKENWORD:
You said
Fiat
You said
Aren’t you imposing this definition of free will on scripture? Do you have scriptural evidence to support free will and your definition of it? Do you have scriptural evidence to explain how free will is created within us if you begin with the assumption that we are born without free will?
Fiat
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Hi Lisa ,Thank God that law was done away with.OUCH!!! Out with the old ,in with the new.Hello, spoken
God Bless
S
SPOKENWORD
Guest
HI Fiat,Of course we are born with a free will. Thats the way God created us.The question is how old before we understand how to use it.
God Bless
T
TNT
Guest
I would have to say that the gift of free will is in the newborn, just as the gift of reproduction is in the newborn.
The difference in existence of these and the ability to make use of them is what we are talking about.
A newborn develops nearly all human faculties, but they are not developed at some stages in life.
So, can a newborn excercise free will? I would say yes in the most primitive sense where it may be difficult to separate it from instinctve reaction or involuntary behavior.
In any case I will keep telling my newborn grandchild to stop dirtying the diapers until free will successfully connects the command with the voluntary choose.
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Hi Fiat, You are correct,that is not a true statement. First mistake so far this year.
God Bless
F
Fiat
Guest
Dear SPOKENWORD:
You said
Your brother,
Fiat
You said
Consider yourself lucky. I’ve already made too many!Hi Fiat, You are correct,that is not a true statement. First mistake so far this year.
Your brother,
Fiat
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
I never use the term lucky,instead I use blessed.So I have a few up on you,its early in the year.Dear SPOKENWORD:
You said
Consider yourself lucky. I’ve already made too many!
Your brother,
Fiat
God bless
L
Lisa4Catholics
Guest
Yes wouldn’t you agree that babtism is alot less painful?Hi Lisa ,Thank God that law was done away with.OUCH!!! Out with the old ,in with the new.
God Bless and come Home spoken come Home:crying:
R
Robert_in_SD
Guest
Catholics do not believe that baptism is a mere sign of acceptance of Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior. Baptism is a Sacrament instituted by God and is required because of Adam’s sin. In short, the act of baptism infuses a grace that is present regardless of the infant’s inability to fully comprehend the situation. Jesus makes clear that children are not to be kept away from him. (Mk. 10:14.)
The formal acceptance of one’s responsibitlites as an adult christian - for Catholics - comes at one’s confirmation (another Sacrament) at the age of reason.
Your argument that one must fully understand the commitments of an adult christian to obtain the salvific effect of baptism breaks down in practice. How does one determine when a person is old enough or competent enough to make that decision. State and Federal legislators cannot even decide on the appropriate age for making a rationale decision for purchasing cigarrettes and alcohol. So what is the appropriate age for making the choice about a personal savior? Reason is not necessary for infants. Christ does not place these barriers to salvation that your personal interpretation of Scripture would errect.
Peace,
T
TNT
Guest
Robert in SD:
After sinning subsequent to Baptism, I do not know for sure, maybe those are forgiven in a new way.
How About it OUDAVE?
I can assure you that OUDAVE believes in the necessity of Baptism for salvation. He just denies original sin in fallen nature. Therefore, all are born immaculate just as the Blessed Mother (we have billions of them). He believes only in Actual Sin which can only be committed after the age of reason. Thus, no Baptism needed until actual sin.
After sinning subsequent to Baptism, I do not know for sure, maybe those are forgiven in a new way.
How About it OUDAVE?
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Robert in SD:
God Bless
Hi Robert,Does God go against our free will?
God Bless
C
Church_Militant
Guest
TOTAL Dodge!Hi Lisa ,Thank God that law was done away with.OUCH!!! Out with the old ,in with the new.
We’ve touched on this before and you still have no answer. If, as the NT says, circumcision was a type of Baptism, then it stands to reason that the fact that it was carried out by profession, consecration, and commitment of the child’s parents as commanded by God means that infant baptism is quite scriptural. You cannot deny that the NT makes this point and that circumcision WAS clearly not a matter of profession by the child Hence there’s absolutely no reason to deny baptism to the infant of Christian parents. And please don’t play your other favorite dodge card of saying “What about the girls…?” You’re well on your way to giving being obtuse a bad name.
More sweet tea?
http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage28/1.gif
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Robert_in_SD
Guest
I did not mean to suggest that infant baptism is an act by God against a person’s free will. The thrust of my argument was that infant baptism and its salvific effect is not rendered invalid by the infant’s lack of capacity to reason as an adult. This does not imply a conclusion that God acts contrary to a person’s free will. If your thinking on this issue is to the contrary, please explain.Hi Robert,Does God go against our free will?
Peace,
S
SPOKENWORD
Guest
Church Militant:
Look all I know is God doesnt go against His promises. Not allowing us to use our free will goes against His will. God Bless.
Hi C.M Is that green tea you serving?
Look all I know is God doesnt go against His promises. Not allowing us to use our free will goes against His will. God Bless.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
To YOUR mind…this is YOUR perception…but where does it say anything to support that in the Bible? I can’t recall a place that does.Hi C.M Is that green tea you serving?
The fact that Saul had no choice as well as all his soldiers when they were forced to prophecy comes to mind. Free will? Also I would say that an awful lot of folks outside of Catholicism tend to pull promises out of context of the scriptures…hence the health and prosperity gospel?
Green tea? No but it’s up in the cabinet and I can if you’d rather…
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Church Militant:
God Bless
Sorry C. M. Again you disagree with me.Im sorry my comments go against your belief system,But I am not God. Is God bound by His promises? What do you think? So when God said He will never Flood the earth again,WILL HE?To YOUR mind…this is YOUR perception…but where does it say anything to support that in the Bible? I can’t recall a place that does.
The fact that Saul had no choice as well as all his soldiers when they were forced to prophecy comes to mind. Free will? Also I would say that an awful lot of folks outside of Catholicism tend to pull promises out of context of the scriptures…hence the health and prosperity gospel?
Green tea? No but it’s up in the cabinet and I can if you’d rather…
God Bless
R
Robert_in_SD
Guest
Robert in SD:
You have not answered my question. If you believe infant baptism violates our free will, then please articulate *how * that free will is violated in an infant baptism? It is the parents’ will to offer baptim to their child. When the child reaches an age of reason, he or she can choose to affirm the promises made by the parents and godparents at baptism (at Confirmation) or choose to reject those promises explicitly or by conduct. How is such a scenario contrary to the gift of free will?
Peace,
P.S. If a child lacks the capacity to make a decision for or against Christ, again there is no contradiction of free will by baptism, right? If you disagree, please explain.
Dear Spokenword;
You have not answered my question. If you believe infant baptism violates our free will, then please articulate *how * that free will is violated in an infant baptism? It is the parents’ will to offer baptim to their child. When the child reaches an age of reason, he or she can choose to affirm the promises made by the parents and godparents at baptism (at Confirmation) or choose to reject those promises explicitly or by conduct. How is such a scenario contrary to the gift of free will?
Peace,
P.S. If a child lacks the capacity to make a decision for or against Christ, again there is no contradiction of free will by baptism, right? If you disagree, please explain.
T
Tom
Guest
First we say grace is a “gift” from God, it cannot be earned. So why now does a person need to be of the age of reason for God to give this gift? Does God know He’s not allowed to give gifts to children? Seems we’re putting restrictions on God doesn’t it? Does the Holy Spirit understand it must have sinned when it entered St. John the Baptist in the womb of his mother??? Can you get any younger than a child in the womb? Did John decide in the womb he would accept Jesus as his personal saviour?
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