Baptism

[jmcrae]

Baptism gives you grace. I thought grace was a gift from God and its up to us to accept it or not. Grace is favor, its God’s free gift and underserved love that never quits.

So then, why can’t babies be allowed to have it? Since if “nothing” is required, surely infants can receive it, right?

Grace is the gift of God that comes as eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Right.

Baptism is not a requirement for salvation.

Jesus said, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.”

“Water and Spirit” is Christian Baptism.

Baptism does not save a preson, but is a picture of personal salvation and a sign of obedience to God.

Will you please listen carefully to the inspired word of almighty God? I shall read the King James Version, although virtually every other version reads almost exactly like the King James. Peter mentions Noah’s ark and says that eight souls were saved by water. "The like figure whereunto even baptism does now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (1 Pet. 3:20-21). Did you understand and do you believe what Peter wrote by divine inspiration? “Baptism now saves us.”

 

[jmcrae]

That is what your church teaches but the Bible does not say that. Besides the whole whole household thing that really don’t prove there was infant baptism …]

Give me even one sane reason to believe that in an era when they had no access to birth control, and when they believed that children were a blessing from the LORD, that any normal, healthy married couple with servants didn’t have at least one infant in the house, whether it was their child, or their servant’s child.

 

[SonofMonica]

Give me one example where it says they baptized adults, and infants. Please give me one example where is say and infants were baptized in the Bible and you will have changed my mind about infant baptism forever.

Easy. Acts 2:38-39. Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

The word “children” that Peter used comes from the Greek word “teknon” which also includes infants.

Now go read about circumcision in Luke 1:59. Here, John as a “teknon” (infant) was circumcised. See also Acts 21:21 which uses “teknon” for eight-day old babies.

Peter says that baptism saves us in the same way as circumcision did. It was applied to “teknon” (infants).

I guess I’m safe since I was baptized as a infant when I was catholic.

No, baptism is necessary, but not sufficient to save you. You’re not safe any more than the rest of us. May God bless you and keep you always.

 

[SonofMonica]

Give me even one sane reason to believe that in an era when they had no access to birth control, and when they believed that children were a blessing from the LORD, that any normal, healthy married couple with servants didn’t have at least one infant in the house, whether it was their child, or their servant’s child.

The word “household” comes from the Greek word “oikos” which is a household that includes infants and children.

 

[jmcrae]

The word “household” comes from the Greek word “oikos” which is a household that includes infants and children.

Thank you, I learn something new every day, here.

 

[Mickey]

Give me one phrase that says they were bapitzed as a infant. Give me one example where it says they baptized adults, and infants.

Households means everyone—adults, teens, children, toddlers, infants…everyone! To discount these verses, you must either believe that none of the five examples of households in Scripture had infants (and if Scripture lists five examples, you know there were many more that were not written about)----or that infants are not considered to be part of the household. Either way, you are on thin ice.

Furthermore, it is a well known apostolic understanding that the when the Jews came out of Egypt and walked through the waters of the Red Sea. it was a type (pre-figurement) of baptism. Do you think that there were any infants among the Jews who walked through the Red Sea?

You are in denial.

 

[SonofMonica]

Thank you, I learn something new every day, here.

No problem (me too)!

 

[Harpazo]

Thank you, I learn something new every day, here.

It’s the same in Latin, too. “Familia” referred to the whole household, including slaves. Reading some of the writings from the early Church, slaves were sometimes set free by their masters when they whole household was baptized.

I looks like our friend rev kevin is in denial.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[rev_kevin]

In John 3:5.

I am talking about kids under the age of 24 months. They walk, they talk, but they are still in diapers - and no, they can’t read.

Jesus was explaining the importance of a spiritual rebirth, saying that people don’t enter the Kingdom by living a better life, but by being spiritually reborn.

Ok under 24 months. They can also say I saw grandma, I saw the boogy man. Reguardless I’m not bying it.

 

[jmcrae]

Jesus was explaining the importance of a spiritual rebirth, saying that people don’t enter the Kingdom by living a better life, but by being spiritually reborn.

Yes, and He said that the spiritual rebirth has two necessary components - water, and Spirit. This is Christian Baptism.

 

[SonofMonica]

Households means everyone—adults, teens, children, toddlers, infants…everyone! To discount these verses, you must either believe that none of the five examples of households in Scripture had infants (and if Scripture lists five examples, you know there were many more that were not written about)----or that infants are not considered to be part of the household. Either way, you are on thin ice.

Furthermore, it is a well known apostolic understanding that the when the Jews came out of Egypt and walked through the waters of the Red Sea. it was a type (pre-figurement) of baptism. Do you think that there were any infants among the Jews who walked through the Red Sea?

You are in denial.

That’s right. The household (oikos) was the basic unit of Greek society, and in fact included the head of the oikos (the eldest male), his extended family (wife and children), and his slaves living together in one domestic setting, whether in a house, or on a farm.

 

[rev_kevin]

Households means everyone—adults, teens, children, toddlers, infants…everyone! To discount these verses, you must either believe that none of the five examples of households in Scripture had infants (and if Scripture lists five examples, you know there were many more that were not written about)----or that infants are not considered to be part of the household. Either way, you are on thin ice.

Furthermore, it is a well known apostolic understanding that the when the Jews came out of Egypt and walked through the waters of the Red Sea. it was a type (pre-figurement) of baptism. Do you think that there were any infants among the Jews who walked through the Red Sea?

You are in denial.

I’m not in denial, I asked for one example of infant baptism without using the whole household thing and you have not produced it.
I’m not walking on thin ice. Where do you see that walking through the waters of the Red Sea a type of pre-figurement of baptism? I don’t see the connection except water.

 

[Mickey]

That’s right. The household (oikos) was the basic unit of Greek society, and in fact included the head of the oikos (the eldest male), his extended family (wife and children), and his slaves living together in one domestic setting, whether in a house, or on a farm.

Amen!

Did you read that rev?

 

[Harpazo]

Easy. Acts 2:38-39. Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

The word “children” that Peter used comes from the Greek word “teknon” which also includes infants.

Now go read about circumcision in Luke 1:59. Here, John as a “teknon” (infant) was circumcised. See also Acts 21:21 which uses “teknon” for eight-day old babies.

Peter says that baptism saves us in the same way as circumcision did. It was applied to “teknon” (infants).

No, baptism is necessary, but not sufficient to save you. You’re not safe any more than the rest of us. May God bless you and keep you always.

For a little perspective:

ΠΡΑΞΕΙΣ ΤΩΝ ΑΠΟΣΤΟΛΩΝ 2:38-39 Πέτρος δὲ ἔφη πρὸς αὐτούς·
μετανοήσατε, καὶ βαπτισθήτω ἕκαστος ὑμῶν ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι ᾿Ιησοῦ Χριστοῦ εἰς
ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν, καὶ λήψεσθε τὴν δωρεὰν τοῦ ῾Αγίου Πνεύματος.39 ὑμῖν γάρ ἐστιν ἡ
ἐπαγγελία καὶ τοῖς τέκνοις ὑμῶν καὶ πᾶσι τοῖς εἰς μακράν, ὅσους ἂν προσκαλέσηται
Κύριος ὁ Θεὸς ἡμῶν

Also, from Acts 21:21

ΠΡΑΞΕΙΣ ΤΩΝ ΑΠΟΣΤΟΛΩΝ κατηχήθησαν δὲ περὶ
σοῦ ὅτι ἀποστασίαν διδάσκεις ἀπὸ Μωϋσέως τοὺς κατὰ τὰ ἔθνη πάντας ᾿Ιουδαίους,
λέγων μὴ περιτέμνειν αὐτοὺς τὰ τέκνα μηδὲ τοῖς ἔθεσι περιπατεῖν.

Here, τὰ τέκνα is the plural, meaning “infants.”

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[SonofMonica]

Ok under 24 months. They can also say I saw grandma, I saw the boogy man. Reguardless I’m not bying it.

You seem to be hung up on the idea that the infant needs to have faith prior to being baptized in order for God to give grace through the baptism. That’s not how God works. We need God’s grace in order to even HAVE faith! Remember, even our faith is not of ourselves. It is a gift of God. Eph. 2:8.

Thankfully God bestows the grace we need when we are not even capable of having faith ourselves. Need more examples?

The paralytic in Matt. 9:2 and Mark 2:3-5. The faith of those who brought in the paralytic cured the paralytic’s sins. This is an example of the forgiveness of sins based on another’s faith, just like infant baptism.

The servant in Matt. 8:5-13. The servant is healed based upon the centurion’s faith. This is another example of healing based on another’s faith. If Jesus can heal us based on someone else’s faith, then He can baptize us based on someone else’s faith as well.

The demon possessed child in Mark 9:22-25. Jesus exorcises the child’s unclean spirit based on the father’s faith. This healing is again based on another’s faith.

In 1 Cor. 7:14 Paul states that children are sanctified by God through the belief of only one of their parents. This goes back as far as Exodus 12:24-28, where the Passover was based on the parent’s faith. If they did not kill and eat the lamb, their first-born child died. And the same concept is expressed in Joshua 5:2-7, wherein God punished Israel because the people had not circumcised their children. This was based on the parent’s faith.

Parents play a critical role in their child’s salvation. They cooperate with God by bringing their children unto Him and he supplies the grace through baptism that they need to eventually become hearers and doers of the Word.

 

[Mickey]

I’m not in denial, I asked for one example of infant baptism without using the whole household thing and you have not produced it.

LOL!!! You have been given examples of types (Red Sea and circumcision). Of the Greek meaming of the word household, Jesus’ love for the children, etc. And there are many others examples.

“Housholds” is the best example for you, but you will not accept it. It is the proof you are seeking but you will not embrace it. You do not have eyes to see or ears to hear. Nothing can be said to you because your heart has been hardened toward the apostolic teaching.

 

[Mickey]

Where do you see that walking through the waters of the Red Sea a type of pre-figurement of baptism?

Moses’ leading his people through the Red Sea is seen as an Old Testament foreshadowing of Christian baptism. The following New Testament passage clearly points to this: “For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them, and that rock was Christ.” (1 Corinthians 10:1-4) It is worthwhile to note that “all were baptized” through Moses’ leadership in crossing over the Red Sea. He did not leave the infants or children on the shores of Egypt to become prey to the angry armies of Pharaoh because they were not old enough to believe in the promise of the Old Covenant. Rather, entrusted to the arms of their parents’ faith, they were carried through the “baptism of Moses.”
goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith7067

 

[rev_kevin]

Easy. Acts 2:38-39. Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

The word “children” that Peter used comes from the Greek word “teknon” which also includes infants.

Now go read about circumcision in Luke 1:59. Here, John as a “teknon” (infant) was circumcised. See also Acts 21:21 which uses “teknon” for eight-day old babies.

Peter says that baptism saves us in the same way as circumcision did. It was applied to “teknon” (infants).

Acts 2:38-39 means, If you want to follow Christ you must “turn from your sins and turn to God and be baptized.” To turn from sin means to repent, changing the direction of your life from selfishness and rebellion against God’s laws. At the same time you must turn to Christ, depending on him for forgiveness, mercy, guidance and purpose, We cannot save ourselves only God can save us. Baptism identifies us with Christ and with the community of believers. It is a condition of discipleship and a sign of faith.

So if baptism saves us in the same way as circumcision did then we are not talking about water baptism at this point. .

No, baptism is necessary, but not sufficient to save you. You’re not safe any more than the rest of us. May God bless you and keep you always.

sorry I put my responce in the wrong place here.

 

[rev_kevin]

LOL!!! You have been given examples of types (Red Sea and circumcision). Of the Greek meaming of the word household, Jesus’ love for the children, etc. And there are many others examples.

“Housholds” is the best example for you, but you will not accept it. It is the proof you are seeking but you will not embrace it. You do not have eyes to see or ears to hear. Nothing can be said to you because your heart has been hardened toward the apostolic teaching.

Well you cant do it therefore i stick to my beliefs.

 

[Mickey]

Well you cant do it therefore i stick to my beliefs.

Everyone here has proved it to you…over and over and over again.

But you will stick to your errors anyway. That is what I expected.