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plakamhil
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I see!!! Here, you (SCRIPTURE) are just explaining SCRIPTURE?
Plakamhil
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Plakamhil
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bbas_64
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Sarah Jane:
I do not believe I quoted Ambrose, and would not be germaine to the ECF I did quote. Do not know of any quote Hippolytus that conveys such an idea, if you have a quote of Ambrose I would be most interested. Ambrose came many years after Hippolytus, so I wonder if he (Ambrose) dealt with what had preceded him.
Peace to u,
Bill
Good Day, Sarah
I do not believe I quoted Ambrose, and would not be germaine to the ECF I did quote. Do not know of any quote Hippolytus that conveys such an idea, if you have a quote of Ambrose I would be most interested. Ambrose came many years after Hippolytus, so I wonder if he (Ambrose) dealt with what had preceded him.
Peace to u,
Bill
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mercygate
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In apologetics, especially when we care passionately about issues, there is sometimes a danger of taking an adversarial position when none actually exists. Here Yaqubos is stating one truth with which Catholics fully agree. Jesus does intercede for us (though not, as Yaqubos implies, because he is human – but that is another subject):
Rom 8:33-34 Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies; who is to condemn? Is it** Christ Jesus**, who died, yes, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who** indeed intercedes for us**?
And as for Scripture interpreting Scripture, while the Catholic position includes Sacred Tradition in the “Word of God,” it believes in the entire unity of Scripture by which the Old Testament prefigures the New and the New Testament illuminates the Old.
CCC: Bold type is mine. Italics and elipses are original to the text.
[112](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/112.htm’)
1. Be especially attentive “to the content and unity of the whole Scripture”. Different as the books which compose it may be, Scripture is a unity by reason of the unity of God’s plan, of which Christ Jesus is the center and heart, open since his Passover.79
The phrase “heart of Christ” can refer to Sacred Scripture, which makes known his heart, closed before the Passion, as the Scripture was obscure. But the Scripture has been opened since the Passion; since those who from then on have understood it, consider and discern in what way the prophecies must be interpreted.80
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faithfulservant
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just a simple question…in general…as a child, when you wanted something, didn’t you usually go to mom to get it…knowing she could talk dad into it… or at least you had a better shot at it if mom were involved… works the same way with Mary and Jesus…
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faithfulservant
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ps…what i can tell you is that Mary was directly responsible for this ex-baptist’s salvation… no, not because She died for me, not because She redeemed me, but through Her direct intercession , She did what She does best… She led me to Her Son, and into His Church … thus the reason for my sig
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snuffy
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Dear Jesus:
How you must be crying out for your children.
Your Holy Mother asked you to perform your first miracle by saying, “Do as He tells you.”
And your Son responded by turning water into wine.
O, Blessed Mother I thank you for interceding to Your Son for me. I was sooo far away from your Son for soo many years…
I know throughout all those years that my mother was praying to you, to intercede to her Son for me.
And I thank you O Holy Mother for praying for me.
O Heavenly Mother it was you, who brought me back to your Son. On that hilltop far away, you taught me to follow your Son, and do as He asks of me.
Lord I submit to you my life. I thank you for your Blessed Mother leading me to you.
I thank you, for making Our Blessed Mother, your perfect example for motherhood.
O Lord, I beg you to have mercy on all of your children who do not respect and honor your mother.
I ask You O Lord to make Our Hearts soften to the Love you have for Your mother. Please do not harden their hearts, But send Your Holy Spirit to enlighten them and set their hearts on fire for the Truth, which is found in the Holy Catholic Church.
Amen
How you must be crying out for your children.
Your Holy Mother asked you to perform your first miracle by saying, “Do as He tells you.”
And your Son responded by turning water into wine.
O, Blessed Mother I thank you for interceding to Your Son for me. I was sooo far away from your Son for soo many years…
I know throughout all those years that my mother was praying to you, to intercede to her Son for me.
And I thank you O Holy Mother for praying for me.
O Heavenly Mother it was you, who brought me back to your Son. On that hilltop far away, you taught me to follow your Son, and do as He asks of me.
Lord I submit to you my life. I thank you for your Blessed Mother leading me to you.
I thank you, for making Our Blessed Mother, your perfect example for motherhood.
O Lord, I beg you to have mercy on all of your children who do not respect and honor your mother.
I ask You O Lord to make Our Hearts soften to the Love you have for Your mother. Please do not harden their hearts, But send Your Holy Spirit to enlighten them and set their hearts on fire for the Truth, which is found in the Holy Catholic Church.
Amen
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faithfulservant
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:clapping: :tiphat: 
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hlgomez
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I guess in your point of view, it is USELESS to say to somebody “please pray for me” or “pray for one another” or “let’s pray to this and that person” because we can go directly to the “president” and not the “secretary”?
Pio
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Sarah_Jane
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Jesus is not only human, He’s God too.
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hlgomez
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Hope you could see it one day. You’re utterly in confusion. Salvation comes from God and is not just a word (as you say), intercession can come from saints. Just like when you say, “pray for me, brother” or “pray for me, pastor.” And the pastor lays his hand and prays for you… a good and noble thing to do.
History proves this. BTW, which Church are you talking about? And in what manner did you say that “you can’t pray to the dead”? Are you referring to praying for those who are in Purgatory?-- They are already sure of heaven but needs purification, but we pray for them so that God will hasten their stay there. Those who are in heaven?-- We ask for their intercession. We are indeed one Church–both of visible reality and invisible reality. That’s what you call “communion of saints.” We don’t just communicate with each other who are alive here on earth, but to everyone -here on earth, purgatory, and heaven. This is the Church as “one body” and we are all in union with Christ who is the Head of His Body the Church.
But praying for the dead is observed in the Traditions of the early Catholic Church, and so is the present day Catholic Church. She never changed that, or maybe you yourself did, but not the Catholic Church.
Is God the God of the living or of the dead? How you misunderstood Sacred Sriptures! God is a God of the living! Those saints are alive and are in heaven with the God of the living! But God is God of both the living and the dead for He is God of all, AMEN.
Pio
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ahimsaman72
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Pio, you missed it. Why aren’t there prayers to Mother Theresa (who is by definition given by another poster) a “queen of heaven” like Mary?
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ahimsaman72
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We also know that thousands of human beings are sinless and incapable of sin – those who are profoundly brain damaged (cerebral palsy is one example than can incapacitate a person) those with congenital brain anamolies and many of the people who defy a diagnosis who fall under the dx of autism or PDD. A person must have the ability to reason to be sinful.
Many babies who are baptized and die from SIDS or some other tragedy are also sinless. (I don’t think we get to list the millions of aborted babies, but that is a shame because they certainly are without sin.)
So, It is hard to get a Baptist to see why God would create a perfect being in which to create the incarnation of the word, but I think Scott Hahn’s Hail Holy Queen has a lot of references to the Arc of the Covenant and how Mary became the new arc of the new covenant. I am not the scholar Mr. Hahn is so you would probably do well to have someone give you the scritpural basis of his theory.
The doctrine of original sin refutes everything you just said. Do you believe in original sin (inherited sin) that came down to us through Adam? I knew Muslims didn’t believe in original sin, but I was unaware the Catholic church taught it.
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ahimsaman72
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Thanks, you proved my point. God’s plan wasn’t hinging on Mary’s acceptance of her role as the Lord’s Mother.
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ahimsaman72
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Do you really think we need someone “pulling for us” when we need something? Do you really think we need to go to the VP to get our foot in the door and get us some “pull”. We’re dealing with the Savior of the universe here, not Donald Trump.
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ahimsaman72
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False analogy. Mom has equal authority with Dad. Mary does NOT have equal authority with Jesus. If Dad freely gives me everything I need, why bother asking Mom???
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mercygate
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The matter here requires distinction between original and acutal sin, which Catholics accept. I thought that Baptists teach adult baptism only, partly because children cannot make a responsible affirmation of faith and partly because they cannot sin. Or is that the position of another group? (I get confused!) Does Original Sin mean the same thing for Baptists as it does for Catholics? (OK – tell me to go do my homework.) It is my understanding that Baptists do not believe Baptism actually DOES anything. OK. So baptism is only a public affirmation of faith. Does “accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior” constitute the sin-removing act for Baptists?
Sorry if this is off the topic of Baptists and Mary – but ultimately I think it is germane.
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ahimsaman72
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Mary was in no way responsible for our salvation, whether directly or indirectly. God willed that Christ would pay our sin debt. She did not lead me to Christ. God working throught the Holy Spirit is responsible for bringing me to Christ. If Mary were even remotely responsible, we would have it proclaimed throughout Scripture - “Hear ye, hear ye, Because of Mary’s obedience, we Gentiles can have salvation now!”ps…what i can tell you is that Mary was directly responsible for this ex-baptist’s salvation… no, not because She died for me, not because She redeemed me, but through Her direct intercession , She did what She does best… She led me to Her Son, and into His Church … thus the reason for my sig
This is so close to worshipping other gods that it’s unbelievable. You are trusting a different source other than the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
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ahimsaman72
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Baptists teach adult baptism for those who have already accepted Christ as savior. That doesn’t mean that children aren’t born sinful. God takes care of them, somehow, some way. There are verses that imply they are taken to be with Him. I can dig those out if you want. There is a verse which Jesus states that “their angels” are watching over them. He also stated that everyone must come to God like a little child. To us, it implies they are humble and have not “rebelled” against God as yet.
Original sin is what the name implies. It was inherited by us all through Adam and Eve’s transgression. Romans 5:12 shows this.
Accepting Christ involves repenting, confessing and putting faith in Christ and constitutes the sin-removing act for all time. Baptism as you pointed out, is for public affirmation only.
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MariaG
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I have Protestant friends who say the only reason they are believers in Christ is because of the prayers of their family. How is this any different than someone saying that they are where they are today because of the prayers of Mary?
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mercygate
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Thanks. That helps.
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