Baptists and Mary

[John_Tino]

Hello John Tino here for the first time.
In the book of Luke there is a prophecy, and the prophecy said:
"For behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed." Luke, 1:48
The only church in all of history from the first century to the present day that has fulfilled this prophecy is the
Holy Catholic Church. We have always called the Blessed Virgin Mary, BLESSED

 

[mrS4ntA]

mrS4ntA:

Rite… oke…
let’s just say to all newlyweds it’s futile to keep repeating “I love you”, their batteries will soon be dead anyway…

btw… see the songs and prayers in Psalm. If that is not repetition, I don’t know what is!

**King James Version Psalms **

Ps 136:1 O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Ps 136:2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Ps 136:3 O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Ps 136:4 To him who alone doeth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Ps 136:5 To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Ps 136:6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Ps 136:7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:

Ps 136:8 The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:

Ps 136:9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Ps 136:10 To him that smote Egypt in their firstborn: for his mercy endureth for ever:

Ps 136:11 And brought out Israel from among them: for his mercy endureth for ever:

Ps 136:12 With a strong hand, and with a stretched out arm: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Ps 136:13 To him which divided the Red sea into parts: for his mercy endureth for ever:

Ps 136:14 And made Israel to pass through the midst of it: for his mercy endureth for ever:

Ps 136:15 But overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red sea: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Ps 136:16 To him which led his people through the wilderness: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Ps 136:17 To him which smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:

Ps 136:18 And slew famous kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:

Ps 136:19 Sihon king of the Amorites: for his mercy endureth for ever:

Ps 136:20 And Og the king of Bashan: for his mercy endureth for ever:

Ps 136:21 And gave their land for an heritage: for his mercy endureth for ever:

Ps 136:22 Even an heritage unto Israel his servant: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Ps 136:23 Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever:

Ps 136:24 And hath redeemed us from our enemies: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Ps 136:25 Who giveth food to all flesh: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Ps 136:26 O give thanks unto the God of heaven: for his mercy endureth for ever.

 

[tralon]

Yeah, I respect that, but why go to the secretary, when you can go right to the president?

 

[MariaG]

Tralon would you pray for me?

Oh God, please bless me and all who believe in you with the words to speak your truth to the hearts of those who are lost. I ask this through Christ our Lord. Amen.

This is what asking Mary or the Saints to pray for us is. Just like asking fellow believers to pray for us and to ADD their prayers to ours.

God Bless,

Maria

 

[victoria_plum]

Hi there, I am a Catholic but not 100% sure about the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption. I would like to know where these doctrines originate. Thank you.

(BTW it isn’t just Baptists who don’t accept these doctrines and not all baptists are fundamentalists or evangelicals. Some Catholics are fundamentalists and evangelicals. Labels don’t tell you everything.)

 

[tralon]

Sure Maria, I would pray for a nice lady like you anytime. You talk nice, not high and mighty like some.

 

[mayra_hart]

Similarly, certain interpolated passages found in the Sibylline Oracles, passages which probably date from the third century, show an equal preoccupation with the dominant role played by the Blessed Virgin in the work of redemption (see especially II, 311-12, and VIII, 357-479). The first of these passages apparently assigns to the intercession “of the Holy Virgin” the obtaining of the boon of seven days of eternity that men may find time for repentance (cf. the Fourth Book of Esdras, vii, 28-33). Further, it is quite likely that the mention of the Blessed Virgin in the intercessions of the diptychs of the liturgy goes back to the days before the Council of Nicaea, but we have no definite evidence upon the point, and the same must be said of any form of direct invocation, even for purposes of private devotion.

 

[mayra_hart]

Distinguishing these three aspects of Marian Mediation permits us to study the even subtler and more hidden details of this ineffable Marian mystery, pertinent to each and all, although not everyone perhaps is sufficiently aware of its primary importance.

In a more basic sense, the mystery of the maternal Mediation of Mary on behalf of mankind has only two dimensions, the Coredemption and the Mediation of grace, the immediate object of our research. However, the latter quite naturally embraces protection and defense by the “Advocate” of the People of God, truly “Advocate” of the members of the Mystical Body of Christ.

Mary Most Holy, “Advocate” of the redeemed, expresses the dynamic of maternal Mediation of grace as it affects most concretely the people, viz., in its existential aspects of struggle and sorrow which men must confront day by day along the way of salvation. One might say that the title of the Blessed Virgin Mary as “Advocate,” stands in relation to Mary Mediatrix of all graces, as operation follows on and reduplicates being. The argumentation is direct and conclusive: because she is the Mediatrix of graces, the Blessed Virgin Mary works as maternal “Advocate of grace” of the redeemed people.

 

[mayra_hart]

What, then, is that most radical titulus exigitivus of the universal Mediation of graces in the Virgin Mary? The best reply is the following: the titulus exigitivus is the Coredemption. In fact, cooperating directly in the universal redemption with her unspeakable sufferings, united to those of her Redeemer Son and in total dependence on Him, the Blessed Virgin Mary is thereby constituted Mediatrix of all graces as well.

More simply still, one might say that in Mary Most Holy the origin of the right to possess and to distribute every grace derives from offering and merit of offering those sufferings whereby she cooperated in the very acquiring of the graces of universal Redemption to be distributed to each and every soul to be saved. United and subordinated wholly to the Redeemer, the Virgin Mary suffered by cooperating directly and immediately in bringing the universal Redemption into existence. This constitutes the titulus exigitivus for the universal Mediation of all graces. bless you all

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

jpusateri:

Mary does indeed “bring us the gifts of eternal salvation”. However she does not create the gifts. She can be allowed to bring them to us, can’t she? Does Jesus need her to do this because her cannot? Nope. He is SO powerful that he can still be in control and allow humans to participate in the plan.

PHILOSOPHY! Who said all this?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[faithfulservant]

rarndt01:

Sarah Jane

I am a Catholic, because I believe in the sacraments. No other church offers these in the way the Catholic church does. But, at the same time being a student of history I know that the modern day Catholic church does NOT entirely teach the APOSTOLIC traditions that the early church held dearly. I am for returning to the simplicity and true doctrines once delivered from the apostles to the church. The Queenship of Mary, not allowing bishops to marry and admitting known homosexuals into the priesthood were not of apostolic church tradition at all.

Ron from Ohio

ron, if you are indeed Catholic, then you must believe the 4 dogmas of the Church (as all Catholics must) about the Blessed Mother… do you? to call yourself Catholic, you must believe all the Church teaches and believes… do you?

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

mercygate:

As a Convert, I, too have struggled with the Marian doctrines – and often still do. “I believe; help my unbelief” is a frequent prayer. But this post, Mayra, has opened my eyes to a critical point that I had not registered before. If, as you observe, sinlessness is required in order to be present with God – ‘nothing unclean will enter the heavenly City’ – then it stands to reason that for Heaven to enter Our Lady, she had to be perfectly clean, perfectly sinless.

Thank you, Mayra! This alone was worth slogging through all the blood and guts of this thread. May God reward you for sharing these holy insights!

The Holy Spirit dwells now in all believers, although they are not sinless in themselves, but in Christ. So how do you think GOD the HOLY Spirit is dwelling in us sinners?

In Love,

Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace!
mayra hart:

Aside from the prophetic types present in the Kingdom of Judah, there is also the text of Psalm 45, which when speaking of the Kingdom of God also speaks of its Queen.

“At Your right hand stands the queen in gold from Ophir.” ( Psalm 45:9 )

“Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” ( Matthew 25:34 )

Didn’t you think about the Church being that Queen? Don’t you know that we will reign with Christ as His Wife ( the Church )?

Why don’t you want to ask God about what He means, and you conclude wrong teachings with your human wisdom?

Ask God about what He means. I mean: SCRIPTURE EXPLAINS SCRIPTURE.

In Love,

Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace!

mrS4ntA:

Hail, Holy Queen,
Mother of Mercy
Hail, our life, our sweetness and our hope

What a blasphemy! Jesus is our Life, our Hope! “When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.” ( Colossians 3:4 )

mrS4ntA:

To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve
To thee do we send up our sighs,
mourning and weeping in this valley of tears.

What a blasphemy! “O You who hear prayer, To You all men come.” ( Psalm 65:2 ) “So I will bless You as long as I live; I will lift up my hands in Your name.” ( Psalm 63:4 ) Not a creature’s name…

mrS4ntA:

Turn, then, most gracious Advocate

Do you want to give all the titles of Jesus to Mary? “My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” ( 1 John 2:1 )

May the Lord lead you to His Son.

In Love,

Yaqubos†

 

[plakamhil]

ahimsaman72:

God could have chosen Elizabeth …

God could have chosen Elizabeth but He did not. God could have sent archangel Michael but He did not - He sent His only begotten Son throught Mary.

Plakamil

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace!
Sarah Jane:

You think that the saints cannot pray for us?

Can you pray to the saints?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[tuopaolo]

tralon:

Yeah, I respect that, but why go to the secretary, when you can go right to the president?

Say God is the president and Mary is the vice-president and you have as a citizen direct access to the president. But it might be better to go to God through the vice-president since she might have more pull over the president than you do. Probably not the best analogy.

Mary is the instrument and loving mother God made so that we might receive His mercy. To ignore this instrument would be to ignore God just as to ignore the sacrament of baptism would be to ignore the author and primary minister of that sacrament, God.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace!

hlgomez:

What is the meaning of advocate? Jesus is the only advocate to the Father for salvation. But Mary is our advocate to her Son for prayers and intercessions. Do you see the difference?

No, I don’t see the difference. Because Salvation isn’t just a word. You are saved because Jesus gives you that Salvation by everything He did and does and will do, including prayers and intercessions.

hlgomez:

Here is a further explanation that is similar to your argument.

SO IF JESUS IS THE ONE MEDIATOR, WHY PRAY TO MARY?
As in other cases, Protestant fundamentalists often tend to quote just one verse completely out of context. So let’s look at the whole passage.

“I urge then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone - for kings, for all those in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceful life in all godliness and holiness. This is good and pleases God our Saviour, who wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man, Christ Jesus.”
1Timothy 2:1-5
This passage says that we must pray for everyone. So why do you quote it to prove that you can pray to Mary?
By the way: the Church never taught that you can pray to the dead.

From this **full **text of the passage we can see three important things:

1. Paul is asking fellow Christians to pray and **intercede with God **for those in authority and for other third parties.

Yes, he is asking living Christians to pray for other living people. He is not asking dead people with whom he can’t talk.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[tuopaolo]

YAQUBOS:

What a blasphemy! Jesus is our Life, our Hope! “When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.” ( Colossians 3:4 )

Just because Jesus is our life and our hope, does not mean that Mary is not also our life and our hope. Jesus was Elizabeth’s nephew. Does that mean that Elizabeth can’t have other nephews? Of course not!

Mary is our life because we live to love her and through her for Jesus and honor and glorify her and in doing so we honor the infinite God who created her and graced her. Mary is also our life because it was through her that we received the life that came from Jesus just as it was through Eve that we received spiritual death. Mary is hope because she is all-powerful in prayer and endless in her mercy. Through her intercession and action as dispensatrix of all graces, we receive the food that will lead us to our eternal home in Heaven where we will be happy with her and with her and our Lord forever. Mary is our sweetness because we love her dearly and because she is a pre-eminent example of the sweetness we will all come to enjoy in Heaven and in the world to come.

Let me quote from St Maximilian Kolbe. From pg 120 of The Kolbe Reader:

Sometimes when reading I grow irritated because the author takes such special pains to stress that our Lady is our whole hope “after Jesus.” Evidently this can be understood in a correct sense. However, the exaggerated scruple not to omit that “saving clause” – no doubt out of veneration of Jesus – is something I consider rather offensive to him.
Let’s argue from an example. When the flatbed presses proved insufficient, we got a rotary press; and we can rightly affirm that to print the Knight on time we put all our hope in the rotary press. But if every time someone were to add immediately, as though he were worried about it, “Yes, but only after the company that built it,” he would thereby show his belief that the machine might fail, and that we might need to have recourse to the firm [as our “hope”]. All this would show that the company had not build the machine as solidly as it ought to have done; and this would hardly be a compliment to the manufacturers.

Do you want to give all the titles of Jesus to Mary? “My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” ( 1 John 2:1 )

Jesus also calls the Holy Spirit, Advocate. So Mary can be an Advocate also. She is the spouse of the Holy Spirit.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace!

“Pray for us?” Jesus is not a saint. Here’s better:

Jesus, Son of the living God, have mercy on us.

Jesus, splendor of the Father, have mercy on us.
Jesus, brightness of eternal light, have mercy on us.
Jesus, king of glory, have mercy on us.
Jesus, the sun of justice, have mercy on us.
Jesus, son of the Virgin Mary, have mercy on us.
Jesus, amiable, have mercy on us.
Jesus, admirable, have mercy on us.
Jesus, the powerful God, have mercy on us.
Jesus, father of the world to come, have mercy on us.
Jesus, crown of all saints, have mercy on us.

You use “pray for us” only after invoking saints’ names. See the difference? “have mercy on us” for the Divinity. This is, like, basic Catholic prayer…

Don’t you know that Jesus prays for us? He is a HUMAN!

In Love,
Yaqubos†