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SoUnhappy80
Guest
So because some don’t feel low, stone em all, huh?
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SoUnhappy80
Guest
mmm1 - I want to say a big thank you for your great words to me. If it is okay, can I PM you sometime?
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leftistdestroye
Guest
SoUnhappy80;3626542]
No, I said nail 'em. Let them know that this not acceptable anymore.
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SoUnhappy80
Guest
I know, I meant it figuratively not literally
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leftistdestroye
Guest
mmm1;3626533]
But it was stigmas that told people that it was not acceptable. Other people see the sigma, and think that they do not want to endure the same thing. I am not out to make the ones who have had abortions feel bad or worse, I am out to stop abortion. I see my Church spend more time and energy trying to deal with the post aborts, than prevention. And, the ones that do show up at the hug session, are already remorseful to begin with. The ones who refuse to feel remorse, already see us as the enemy. For them, I say stigmatize them.
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neat62
Guest
Actually, I disagree…I think she should be remorseful for the rest of her life, again because it is that remorse that will prevent her from ever looking to commit that heinoius act again…its basically how we learn not to make the same mistakes.
As for women who refuse to acknowledge the horror…well, why should they when we keep the true horror of it hidden? When we openly extended our arms, ready to accept them without question when they do choose to murder their own? That’s my problem today…we make it easy for them NOT to feel guilt, not to feel bad.
Whether my thoughts on an approach would work or not…we don’t really know, since its not really been attempted…sure, there have been isolated incidents of people yelling…but I am talking about speaking out about the horror of the act not just in front of the abortion clinics, but in all aspect of life. In school, in Church, in the media…my object is to get to women BEFORE they find themselves in a situation where they “think” abortion is “necessary”…I want them to realize that we, as a society, expect MORE from them…that we expect they THINK before they ACT.
Just as we teach that robbing a bank is a crime and should not be attempt, because there are grace consequences…the same should be taught about abortion…and the grave consequences is in fact, the sorrow, the pain, the guilt and the memory that they will have to live with the rest of their lives, once they choose to abort.
As for your comments…no worries…its a heated topic and we all get emotional discussing it…but, it is for that reason, that we all do it as well, right?
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leftistdestroye
Guest
SoUnhappy80;3626654]
I know.
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mmm1
Guest
Absolutely! But, of course, you don’t need to thank me. You took a personal risk & showed courage to come to a Catholic website & share your story with us on a pro-life thread. It gives us insight in how we can help other women, girls & babies. Post-abortive women like you are some of the best pro-lifers now.
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mmm1
Guest
Hi, leftisdestroye. We seem to disagree on this aspect, this technique, so we might have to agree to disagree on this. I’m not sure we’re going to change each other’s minds. I will add this, though, & then I’ll have to sign off, though.
You mentioned the Church spending more on the post-abortive women than prevention, but I think reaching out to post abortive women will prove to be very effective prevention.
If a woman goes to a clinic, encounters people offering to help her & praying, & continues to have an abortion, she might turn to pro-lifers or the Church later. These women become the strongest pro-life witnesses. They are an effective witness because women & young people will listen to them, young girls & women know they understand what they are going through, they trust them & can learn from their mistakes. They often speak out & tell others it’s not the simple solution PP says it is. If we treat women badly & stigmatize them, how will they ever join our side? I have read a number of people say they started volunteering for Planned Parenthood because of that kind of treatment.
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neat62
Guest
I will agree with this, because I have witnessed this for myself and I don’t want anyone to think I do not believe women such as SoUnhappy80 are not courageous…because I definitely do and it is thanks to many who have shared that we do know of the horror, the guilt, the pain and sorrow that they go through.
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leftistdestroye
Guest
mmm1;3626939]
At Church, th emeetings are a hug session for post aborts. It is the Church saying that we forgive you, and we know that you want to get it off of your chest. Fine.(I guess), but I do not see or hear the Church telling us to get out and protest abortion. I do not hear them telling us to not vote for people who support it.(So what if it is illegal, killing babies is legal but telling you not to vote for a pro choice is?? Break that law! Lose the tax exemption, it is worth it) This feminized addressing of abortion is wrong. It calls for tough love.
Well, we can agree on that! lol
Look, I know that abortions happened prior to Roe. And if Roe was overturned today, I know that we would still have abortions. I also know, that when there was a stigma on abortion in the past, it worked. Not 100% but it did work.
At Church, th emeetings are a hug session for post aborts. It is the Church saying that we forgive you, and we know that you want to get it off of your chest. Fine.(I guess), but I do not see or hear the Church telling us to get out and protest abortion. I do not hear them telling us to not vote for people who support it.(So what if it is illegal, killing babies is legal but telling you not to vote for a pro choice is?? Break that law! Lose the tax exemption, it is worth it) This feminized addressing of abortion is wrong. It calls for tough love.
If they are pro choice, then I do not want them on our side. I want abortion stopped. They would not want to be the brunt of the stigma. So one of two things would happen:
- They won’t have premarital sex, (or not as much)
- They will have their baby.
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mmm1
Guest
I can see that I worded that poorly. When I said “her remorse isn’t needed”, what I meant was, she had already wholeheartedly returned to the Church. She has confessed this sin many times. She has clearly been forgiven, but she still can’t forgive herself & the mere thought of her child brings her to tears. She has worked so hard for the Church & various pro-life causes that her guilt should be eased. She certainly would never have another abortion, she’s the most fervent of pro-lifers, but the pain is still there. I just don’t think that all people that sin need to hang on to all that pain & guilt for the rest of their lives, so why should we require it for post-abortive women? They have to experience it to eventually come to Christ, yes, but I hope they eventually heal. I guess I think they already have enough of the pain & guilt that we shouldn’t add to it.Actually, I disagree…I think she should be remorseful for the rest of her life, again because it is that remorse that will prevent her from ever looking to commit that heinoius act again…its basically how we learn not to make the same mistakes.
As for women who refuse to acknowledge the horror…well, why should they when we keep the true horror of it hidden? When we openly extended our arms, ready to accept them without question when they do choose to murder their own? That’s my problem today…we make it easy for them NOT to feel guilt, not to feel bad.
Whether my thoughts on an approach would work or not…we don’t really know, since its not really been attempted…sure, there have been isolated incidents of people yelling…but I am talking about speaking out about the horror of the act not just in front of the abortion clinics, but in all aspect of life. In school, in Church, in the media…my object is to get to women BEFORE they find themselves in a situation where they “think” abortion is “necessary”…I want them to realize that we, as a society, expect MORE from them…that we expect they THINK before they ACT.
Just as we teach that robbing a bank is a crime and should not be attempt, because there are grace consequences…the same should be taught about abortion…and the grave consequences is in fact, the sorrow, the pain, the guilt and the memory that they will have to live with the rest of their lives, once they choose to abort.
As for your comments…no worries…its a heated topic and we all get emotional discussing it…but, it is for that reason, that we all do it as well, right?
I think we have to be ready with open arms for the women who don’t recognize it as a death because sometimes it might be the women in our lives. It might be our niece or neighbor’s daughter, & Christ calls us to this. For strangers, they either don’t know the truth because they have been raised in the culture of death & told for too long that it is a clump of cells, it’s their body & right & it’s a simple solution. This is shoved down our youth’s throats’. Or, if they do know it’s a life, they are so hardened against us & the truth that I think only kindness over a number of years, living our lives as an example to them & they see that over the years & notice the stark contrast to theirs. They sense the peace they are missing. They might never reach that point, but we still are called to reach out to them & act lovingly.
But, I do agree that we need to tell them the truth, though, but in peaceful rational ways. I also agree about not hiding the horror of abortion. I believe in the effectiveness of the ultrasounds, handing out various pamphlets, websites etc. that reveal what abortion does.
So, I do agree with you about grief being necessary to a point, & about speaking out about the horrors of abortion. On that we can agree! I’m sorry I’ve babbled on. I’m getting too tired to write effectively. Need to sign off but will check with y’all later.
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neat62
Guest
Thanks…I’ll respond further later, but just wanted to post this in the thread.
*St. Gerard Majella, women the world over have adopted you as their patron in the joys and fears of childbearing. Today, we invoke your intercession for the pro-life movement.
Pray that all will look upon human life as a great gift from God to be accepted and loved, not as an unwanted burden to be destroyed. Assist from heaven the efforts of those on earth who are enlisted in the Christlike crusade of promoting the dignity and value of all human life, particularly the unborn. This we ask through Christ, Our Lord. Amen. *
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leftistdestroye
Guest
mmm1;3627077]
Considering that we do not have the numbers, the platform, or the will to show the truth to these people, is why we need the stigma. We do not have the influence like the schools have, we are not allwed in them. We do not have enough people who consider this a priority. And, many, so called Catholics, either don’t care or support abortion. And frankly, there are many who simply think that the real issue alone, is that a woman have the “right” to choose. They know how horrible it is, but they feel that the “right” to choose is worth it. So many are used to being PC, polite and nice. Time to be heard. I mean, really heard. For far too long many have accepted abortion. Time to tell them that it is NOT, acceptable. And considering that we cannot go in the schools. We cannot approach the people at Planned Parenthood. Considering that many “Catholics” support it, I feel that our only option is a stigma. And the more people we can get to stigmatize, the better it works.
Abortion was achieved using ideology. (and lies) I say we use our ideology. Abortion is rationalized everyday. Sometimes people need a little arm twisting.
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Fone_Bone_2001
Guest
Thank you. Likewise, I have found everything you’ve had to say in this discussion to be true and wise.
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neat62
Guest
Just a thought for a few here:
Rescue those who are being taken away to death; hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter. If you say, “Behold, we did not know this,” does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? Does not he who keeps watch over your soul know it, and will he not requite man according to his work? ~ Proverbs 24:11-12
Rescue those who are being taken away to death; hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter. If you say, “Behold, we did not know this,” does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? Does not he who keeps watch over your soul know it, and will he not requite man according to his work? ~ Proverbs 24:11-12
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kalt
Guest
If Jesus did it, then you have the right to do it. Correct?
Wrong. You are not Jesus.
Do what Jesus told you to do.
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kalt
Guest
Doing “anything”. No, we don’t have the moral right to do “anything” because we think the outcome is worth it. The ends don’t justify the means. If an action is wrong, it’s wrong.
In this case, it’s not only wrong but ineffective. Even if you beleive that it’s merely less effective, why support it at all? If doing something else works better, why allow screaming at all?
Do you understand that when these people scream and “hurt soemone’s feelings a little bit.” that someone seeks out the people who don’t hurt her feelings? That that someone will look to the reasonable person who isn’t screaming at her and calling her a “loser” for protection? That that person will see the reasonable person as the wise person? That that person will see the reasonable person as a guide?
It’s not only about hurting her feelings.
BTW, these screamers are strangers to the women going in. They don’t have clout. They aren’t authority figures of any kind. To them women going in they are either clowns with low self-esteem, or they are lunatics who the police are there to control in case they get dangerous.
Being called a “loser” might hurt a little bit But do you really believe that that is all the damage the screaming does?
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kalt
Guest
That abortion is legal and is viewed by many as a right is exactly why you can’t act like a lunatic and expect to be taken seriously.
If you want these people to wake up to the reality of abortion, you can’t do it by looking like a madman.
Unfortunately, prior bad behavior by a few have left the pro-life side looking a little nutty to those who are in favor of legal abortion. They do see it as a woman’s rights issue, not a question of murder. Understand that this is there belief. They honestly think this way. They don’t say this so they can do what they want. They truly think this way.
If you continue to act like one of the lunatics by screaming over the fences, you only help their cause. They paint the pro-life side as lunatics who think that women shouldn’t have the right to decide for herself. They paint the pro-lifers as people who want to control women.
And here we have 2 much older men screaming “Loser” at a much younger woman going into the clinic.
Think.
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leftistdestroye
Guest
kalt;3636452]
I understand all of your points, I do. And they are logical. But I am not suggesting that only a couple of people use my method, I am suggesting that a mass number of people use it. A couple of angry people come off as crazy. 500+ angry people, and it get’s noticed. I am not talking about a reckless mob action necessarily, but the power of sheer numbers. Look at the immigration rallies. They WILL get what they want eventually. Women’s rights mobs won because of that method. I am not above using those methods, they have worked in the past, and they can work now, for our benefit.
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