Behavior at abortion clinic

[neat62]

SoUnhappy80;3622811

I don’t know what you have done…and I am not one who you should confess to…nor do I provide forgiveness of sin…that is between you, your priest and God. I don’t know your story…nor do I pretend to…you were the one you offered up the fact that you have had an abortion…we were simply discussing how to STOP them from happening.

I am sorry that you are hurting, but frankly, those who choose to commit this horrific attrocity are NOT hurting because of ANYTHING I may say or not…it is their own guilt that offers their pain. Which, in my opinion is a GOOD thing…because it is HOW we will eventually be able to DEFEAT this hideous crime against humanity. Only when the GUILT is actually able to be recognized and we STOP coddling those will some see the pain of others and start THINKING before they choose to commit the same crime.

Again, sorry that mere words bring you to tears, but I imagine its not the “assumed” tone I am taking, but rather the truth within the words that are affecting you.

I do hope that you can find peace one day with the decision you made…but it does not change the fact that I believe we need to be more direct and honest about the horror of abortion, while at the same time we stop openly accepting it as “okay”…cause its simply not.

 

[SoUnhappy80]

Here is an article about an ex-abortion clinic owner. He was in the business for years, opened multiple clinics, and has more experience than any of us combined in his knowledge of the abortion industry. He now is a pro-life speaker. we should give him a lot of credit for what’s he’s doing and his knowledge. here’s a link, and since there is a lot of information, here is what’s most relevant to what we are discussing:

Dr. W: Let me ask about picketing out front. Did you have that in front of some of your places? And what influence did that have?

Eric: It depended on what kind of picketing it was. I found that it did nothing but infuriate people and the woman who came in. What worked, and what I hated the most, were the sidewalk counselors who would stand there and give a brochure about the local CPC. Those were the most effective, because that’s when the girl would stop to have a conversation.

Dr. W: And some of those women never came in?

Eric: Yes.

Brad: You saw those dollar bills walking away.

Eric: You never minded it when the men were outside picketing, because that was good, especially if they were loud and obnoxious, telling women they were going to go to hell. That was productive because they would come in and say, “Who do they think they are telling me what to do?” Women were much more effective at it than men, definitely. We knew which one was going to be successful. What I found, in my personal experience, is that the women didn’t usually respond to younger women because they would typically look at them and say, “You’re my age – what do you know?” But who they did respond to was older women – middle-aged women and senior citizen women because I think, in their minds, those women had valuable advice.

Dr. W: And was that effective on your part?

Eric: It was effective when the picketers were rowdy. When the picketers were calm, it backfired on you because it was like you were trying to drag the women in.When the picketers are loud, women are looking for someone to get them into that clinic. So you would always hope, on Saturdays especially (that’s the biggest day for picketing), that the picketers would be rowdy and obnoxious.

Dr. W: Is there any particular piece of literature that you recall that you feared the most?

Eric: Yes, one by your group, actually, that I used to hate. It was the one that you did about fetal development.

Dr. W: “Did You Know?”

Eric: Yes, that was the one we hated the most. That really used to tick us off. And actually what we would do is (I shouldn’t tell you this, but), the right-to-lifers would get tired and they would put their stuff down on the sidewalk, and they’re talking and we’d go over and take all their literature and just run with it.

abortionfacts.com/dr_willke/connector_july_98.asp

 

[SoUnhappy80]

SoUnhappy80;3622811

I don’t know what you have done…and I am not one who you should confess to…nor do I provide forgiveness of sin…that is between you, your priest and God. I don’t know your story…nor do I pretend to…you were the one you offered up the fact that you have had an abortion…we were simply discussing how to STOP them from happening.

I am sorry that you are hurting, but frankly, those who choose to commit this horrific attrocity are NOT hurting because of ANYTHING I may say or not…it is their own guilt that offers their pain. Which, in my opinion is a GOOD thing…because it is HOW we will eventually be able to DEFEAT this hideous crime against humanity. Only when the GUILT is actually able to be recognized and we STOP coddling those will some see the pain of others and start THINKING before they choose to commit the same crime.

Again, sorry that mere words bring you to tears, but I imagine its not the “assumed” tone I am taking, but rather the truth within the words that are affecting you.

I do hope that you can find peace one day with the decision you made…but it does not change the fact that I believe we need to be more direct and honest about the horror of abortion, while at the same time we stop openly accepting it as “okay”…cause its simply not.

Thank you.

 

[neat62]

Here is an article about an ex-abortion clinic owner. He was in the business for years, opened multiple clinics, and has more experience than any of us combined in his knowledge of the abortion industry. He now is a pro-life speaker. we should give him a lot of credit for what’s he’s doing and his knowledge. here’s a link, and since there is a lot of information, here is what’s most relevant to what we are discussing:

Dr. W: Let me ask about picketing out front. Did you have that in front of some of your places? And what influence did that have?

Eric: It depended on what kind of picketing it was. I found that it did nothing but infuriate people and the woman who came in. What worked, and what I hated the most, were the sidewalk counselors who would stand there and give a brochure about the local CPC. Those were the most effective, because that’s when the girl would stop to have a conversation.

Dr. W: And some of those women never came in?

Eric: Yes.

Brad: You saw those dollar bills walking away.

Eric: You never minded it when the men were outside picketing, because that was good, especially if they were loud and obnoxious, telling women they were going to go to hell. That was productive because they would come in and say, “Who do they think they are telling me what to do?” Women were much more effective at it than men, definitely. We knew which one was going to be successful. What I found, in my personal experience, is that the women didn’t usually respond to younger women because they would typically look at them and say, “You’re my age – what do you know?” But who they did respond to was older women – middle-aged women and senior citizen women because I think, in their minds, those women had valuable advice.

Dr. W: And was that effective on your part?

Eric: It was effective when the picketers were rowdy. When the picketers were calm, it backfired on you because it was like you were trying to drag the women in.When the picketers are loud, women are looking for someone to get them into that clinic. So you would always hope, on Saturdays especially (that’s the biggest day for picketing), that the picketers would be rowdy and obnoxious.

Dr. W: Is there any particular piece of literature that you recall that you feared the most?

Eric: Yes, one by your group, actually, that I used to hate. It was the one that you did about fetal development.

Dr. W: “Did You Know?”

Eric: Yes, that was the one we hated the most. That really used to tick us off. And actually what we would do is (I shouldn’t tell you this, but), the right-to-lifers would get tired and they would put their stuff down on the sidewalk, and they’re talking and we’d go over and take all their literature and just run with it.

abortionfacts.com/dr_willke/connector_july_98.asp

Umm…well that’s all fine and dandy, I hate to tell you that since that article, Mr. Harrah…well…you can read it here:

pregnantpause.org/abort/harrah2.htm

So how can we really believe him to be an expert on any topic? There’s really no way to tell when he was telling the truth and when he was just saying what would get him $$

Some of those posting have experienced protests, both the “loud” ones and the very “quiet” ones…so I don’t think its fair to discount anyone’s experience here.

Finally, what I advocate is speaking the truth louder and LONG before an individual gets to an abortion clinic. I believe we need to get to the youth…we need to be stronger advocates of abstinence and most of all, personal responsibility and accountabilty.

In other words, we need to get to those who might consider abortion an option, LONG before they need it! Get them to THINK before they commit the act that may cause the consequence of pregnancy and then acknowledge that abortion is an immoral and utterly disgusting choice…which they would understand due to the truth of the horror they have been exposed to.

 

[SoUnhappy80]

Umm…well that’s all fine and dandy, I hate to tell you that since that article, Mr. Harrah…well…you can read it here:

pregnantpause.org/abort/harrah2.htm

So how can we really believe him to be an expert on any topic? There’s really no way to tell when he was telling the truth and when he was just saying what would get him $$

Some of those posting have experienced protests, both the “loud” ones and the very “quiet” ones…so I don’t think its fair to discount anyone’s experience here.

Finally, what I advocate is speaking the truth louder and LONG before an individual gets to an abortion clinic. I believe we need to get to the youth…we need to be stronger advocates of abstinence and most of all, personal responsibility and accountabilty.

In other words, we need to get to those who might consider abortion an option, LONG before they need it! Get them to THINK before they commit the act that may cause the consequence of pregnancy and then acknowledge that abortion is an immoral and utterly disgusting choice…which they would understand due to the truth of the horror they have been exposed to.

Thanks for writing this. I was glad to be updated. However, I do not think he is lying though when he describes the abortion industry - it’s worse than we even think. Sometimes people fall back into their old way even if they hate who they once were. How sad.

I am not trying to discount their experiences, but i wish people would also try to view it for a second from the other side - my view should be thought about and accepted as well as someone who has actually been through it - it shouldn’t be discounted either. Those protesting have (probably) not been through an abortion and they dont’ know how those on the other side are reacting to their 'technique". I do have first hand knowledge b/c it happened to me (I know everyone’s experiences differ, but this is what I went through, so that’s what I can say - and I know many other women have had the same reaction as me). Yes, they need to know the truth, but should pro-life people really be telling them they are going to hell and throw things at them? Yes, leftist can say all he wants that some of those there to have abortions do that as well to the protesters, but leftist is not going through what they are - show a little compassion as well even if you don’t agree with what they are doing. What happened to love the sinner, hate the sin? can we kind of agree on that?

I agree women need to think long and hard. Unforunately many just want it over ASAP and their boyfriends/signifant other/whatever want it done even faster. There are hundreds of reasons women get abortions - it’s not just because they are cold-hearted or don’t care.

I don’t agree with the graphic signs and the shouting, that’s my opinion (and i’m sticking with it ). People can protest all they want, I just think we will not be able to rid U.S. of abortions. If we want to reduce it though, there are ways. I agree with the many groups who have vans or clinics near/next to the abortion clinics where they give free ultrasounds.

I also think the pro-life side fibs too sometimes (but I won’t go into that too much). Both sides try to sway women. I wish there was some place armed with the cold hard facts for a woman - I believe this will reduce abortions as well.

Thanks for writing.

 

[SoUnhappy80]

sorry, one more thing - also it was mentioned that there is no time to talk to each woman about her problems (lefist - “I do not plan to pull each one aside, find outher story, and yell at them individually. I say its a baby! It is alive! Dont do it! its murder! The reasons do not concern me, the life of the life does.”), but women get an abortion for a reason, and unless we get to the bottom of a woman’s problem and offer other solutions, she will get an abortion. It’s important to learn WHY, not just say don’t do it. Otherwise, why would they listen? If you are talking to someone, a woman who wants to speak with you will wait, she won’t just go into the clinic in that situation - and besides I am sure there are more than just one protester to help multiple women in that situation. The argument then “I don’t have time to talk to every woman” doesn’t hold up. If the life of the baby really is cared about, then care about the mother. She makes the decision after all. If you care, you care and are willing to go all the way - if you aren’t willing to talk to them, then what are you doing there really? Thanks for listening to my perspective

 

[Danny_OC]

I don’t agree with the graphic signs and the shouting, that’s my opinion (and i’m sticking with it ).

What if these methods were proven to be the most effective?

What I’m getting at is; do you think that such means are *inherently unjustifiable *,or just not the best way of doing it? If the former; you are very mistaken; if the latter, I can understand that but still disagree at least somewhat.

I pray you find peace after your loss.

 

[SoUnhappy80]

What if these methods were proven to be the most effective?

What I’m getting at is; do you think that such means are *inherently unjustifiable *,or just not the best way of doing it? If the former; you are very mistaken; if the latter, I can understand that but still disagree at least somewhat.

I pray you find peace after your loss.

Hi Danny, I guess what I am saying is that these women are feeling very low already and thus there is a better way than shouting, swearing, and maybe even throwing things or whatnot. I really think that those that are kinder and “there for you” is the way to go. You catch more with honey than vinegar, you know? All I am saying is if people were sitting with with a sign or whatever saying we’re not here to pressure, just talk about your situation and ways out of abortion if you don’t want to really do this, I would have most likely gone there and tried to talk things through with my spouse. But it was a very intense situation, and i just wish someone was there to nicely sit down with me and talk about it. I am not going to talk to people calling me a murderer and trying to throw things at me, right? If I had someone say we’re here if you want to talk, I would have talked.

Thanks for your kind words.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

I understand that you don’t see the yelling as wrong, but instead a tactic that will not win the war most effectively. This is a lot better than the opinion that some on this thread appear to be espousing; that yelling at someone is not even justifiable if it is an attempt to stop abortion (this is the main notion that I wanted to argue against here).

Thanks. Yes, you understand my position correctly.

But I still don’t know if I can agree that yelling is not an effective tactic to consistently employ. I feel that if it is strategically considered, it can certainly have its place. If we are going to apply the Golden Rule, shouldn’t we do the father of this baby (charitably assuming he doesn’t want the abortion to happen) the justice of our best attempt to stop his son or daughter from having a pair of scissors jammed into his/her brain? I feel that acting amiably here is almost dishonest.

Once again, you’re absolutely right that we should do the father of this baby the justice of our best attempt to stop his son or daughter from having a pair of scissors jammed into his or her brain, and let me emphasize once again that that is precisely the reason that I oppose yelling at women entering abortion clinics.

Also, let me address this question of yours:

Let’s say we do win them over to our side, and they do realize that abortion truly is murder… won’t they be wondering why we didn’t yell more?

With this other poster’s own personal testimony:

I had an abortion when I was young and stupid. Worst mistake of my life and lots of pressure to do it. All I can say is when I got there I had people yelling at me and actually trying to shove things into the car against it. True, it really made me want to get inside and away from them. I think that if I had good people like you there maybe with signs saying we are here to talk if you want and that’s it, or whatever, maybe my husband or I would have gone over and not done what we did. I wish you were there when i was :crying:

That just about sums it up, I think.

Wow, powerful words. So true though. You are right, this probably would scare the woman. It is unfortunate to have to do this… but I think that a woman who hears this will be profoundly impacted. Rarely are words like this spoken, despite how very true they are. I do believe many women are conflicted as to whether or not to go through with the murder of their children; this could be a strong push in the right direction, and the only time she’ll hear it is on her way into the clinic. All the rest of the time it will be her desire to live as she wishes that permeates her consciousness. Now it will be cold, hard, fearsome truth. I commend this man for his courage to say something like that.

Those words scared her right into the abortion clinic. Look, I truly believe - from my own observations - that a pregnant woman knows on an instinctive level that her child is just that - her child, a real, living, human being. So telling her that verbally on a conscious level isn’t going to be news to her, I don’t think.

Now, showing pregnant women ultrasounds of their unborn children is a different matter entirely. Then they can see their baby for what he or she is. The crisis pregnancy center that I mentioned - the one my girlfriend’s mother runs in New Jersey - has purchased an ultrasound machine for just this purpose, and she has been trained in its proper use so that she can show the women who walk into Life Choices, Inc. that they are already mothers.

And by the way, I disagree completely that the only time they’ll hear such words is on the way into a “clinic”. As I said before, many women come to crisis pregnancy centers for help like the one my girlfriend’s mother runs. She helps them understand in no uncertain terms that if they have an abortion, they will have killed their own child. There are other opportunities to make them understand this besides yelling as they enter an abortion clinic.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Well I’ll tell ya. At the protests, where I do presently act polite, we are ignored and spit at. You are telling me that that will or is making progress??

Jesus says so:

“Blessed are you, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so they persecuted the prophets which were before you.” - Matthew 5:11-12

And as I said before, I am quite positive that praying the Rosary is more effective than yelling. So, if you want to save innocent unborn lives…

They are used to us and just ignore us now. I say we let them know that we are there. In 35 years, we have not achieved a reduction, the numbers hold. Sure, there was a reduction recently as reported, but that was because of the morning after pill, not us.

Not true. The data I’ve seen reports not a “recent” reduction but a consistent one that spans several decades. We have influenced the way society views abortion.

In the seventies, when it was first legalized, so-called “feminists” and the rest of the pro-abortion crowd reveled in abortion.

But guess what? You don’t see bumper stickers anymore that celebrate abortion, like the one that read, “If men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.”

Today, even the pro-abortion politicians say they “personally hate abortion.” Now, of course that’s not good enough and we still have a lot of work to do. But don’t pretend that the pro-life movement hasn’t influenced the way society sees abortion in the last three to four decades.

You had your turn, now it’ ours. Stigmas worked well enough in the past, time to reinstate it.

By all means, we should show the world what abortion really is. I wholeheartedly approve of publicizing pictures of abortion victims, not to inflict guilt on people who’ve had abortions, but rather to wake up everyone in our society to the reality of what abortion is.

But earlier in this thread, you wholeheartedly endorsed antagonizing and frightening pregnant women considering abortions. You go right ahead and do that if your goal is to ensure that they kill their babies.

 

[mmm1]

Thank you.

Hi, SoUnhappy80. I just wanted to welcome you to CA & to echo DannyOC’s words. I’m sorry you had to go through such a horrible thing. I’m also sorry for your loss & praying that you find peace. I’m glad that you’ve heard of Rachel’s Vineyard. I don’t know if you’ve heard of Silent No More, but I know some women find healing by being involved with them. I’m sorry that not everyone was kind to you. Thanks for your courage & sharing your insight with us.

 

[mmm1]

SoUnhappy80;3622811

I don’t know what you have done…and I am not one who you should confess to…nor do I provide forgiveness of sin…that is between you, your priest and God. I don’t know your story…nor do I pretend to…you were the one you offered up the fact that you have had an abortion…we were simply discussing how to STOP them from happening.

I am sorry that you are hurting, but frankly, those who choose to commit this horrific attrocity are NOT hurting because of ANYTHING I may say or not…it is their own guilt that offers their pain. Which, in my opinion is a GOOD thing…because it is HOW we will eventually be able to DEFEAT this hideous crime against humanity. Only when the GUILT is actually able to be recognized and we STOP coddling those will some see the pain of others and start THINKING before they choose to commit the same crime.

Again, sorry that mere words bring you to tears, but I imagine its not the “assumed” tone I am taking, but rather the truth within the words that are affecting you.

I do hope that you can find peace one day with the decision you made…but it does not change the fact that I believe we need to be more direct and honest about the horror of abortion, while at the same time we stop openly accepting it as “okay”…cause its simply not.

neat62, Frankly, I was shocked with how you talked to SoUnhappy80. I was hoping you didn’t know that she had had an abortion when you responded to her about crushing heads & tearing limbs, but apparently you did know. If you met someone who told you they used to be an alcoholic, & 1 night years ago they caused an accident that killed 2 members of their family, what would you say? Would you start talking about the car being engulfed in flames & the fact that the car had crushed them?

Your apology, “Again, sorry that mere words bring you to tears” was so not an apology. It was an attack on her personality that she is not tough enough to withstand your words. You then go on to tell her what’s really causing her pain, rather than a stranger’s unkindness at a time when she made herself vulnerable to us.

I don’t meant to be too harsh with you, but we do need to speak carefully & have compassion for others. You might not be bothered by harsh words, but most of the rest of us are. Physical wounds heal quickly, but words can cause wounds that remain. Just like the rest of us sinners, most women who have abortions have tremendous guilt & pain from it. SoUnhappy mentioned that, & you decided she didn’t have enough guilt & shame.

Our words can either heap on more guilt & pain or help start healing. I appreciate how much you want to save lives & stop abortion, but you can’t ignore the lives of the women on the sidewalk & the ones already traumatized by this. Jesus calls us to care about them, too.

 

[mmm1]

And as this thread shows, some people - again, clearly not you, judging from your posts - don’t even do it to save lives, but just to vent. And I understand that completely, but when I find myself upset about the evils of abortion, the doorstep of an abortion clinic is not the place to be.

And the way such yelling will be perceived is also relevant in another way: remember that we also want to get abortion in this country outlawed. The secular media often perpetuates stereotypes of pro-lifers as mean, nasty, yelling, hateful people. Is it true? Of course not. But inadvertently giving them ammo for their propoganda will make it harder and harder to get abortion outlawed. After all, what politician wants to listen to people regarded as monsters?

So it’s not that I’m concerned with our reputation for its own sake, or with always being nice. Rather, it’s that these tactics hinder the goal of saving innocent unborn lives.

I agree with so much of what you have said, & thought the above was especially wise…

 

[neat62]

neat62, Frankly, I was shocked with how you talked to SoUnhappy80. I was hoping you didn’t know that she had had an abortion when you responded to her about crushing heads & tearing limbs, but apparently you did know. If you met someone who told you they used to be an alcoholic, & 1 night years ago they caused an accident that killed 2 members of their family, what would you say? Would you start talking about the car being engulfed in flames & the fact that the car had crushed them?

Your apology, “Again, sorry that mere words bring you to tears” was so not an apology. It was an attack on her personality that she is not tough enough to withstand your words. You then go on to tell her what’s really causing her pain, rather than a stranger’s unkindness at a time when she made herself vulnerable to us.

I don’t meant to be too harsh with you, but we do need to speak carefully & have compassion for others. You might not be bothered by harsh words, but most of the rest of us are. Physical wounds heal quickly, but words can cause wounds that remain. Just like the rest of us sinners, most women who have abortions have tremendous guilt & pain from it. SoUnhappy mentioned that, & you decided she didn’t have enough guilt & shame.

Our words can either heap on more guilt & pain or help start healing. I appreciate how much you want to save lives & stop abortion, but you can’t ignore the lives of the women on the sidewalk & the ones already traumatized by this. Jesus calls us to care about them, too.

It’s funny you find my words to her offensive, yet show no problem at all with attacking me with hurtful words…sigh… I wonder if you noticed the reply I received from SoUnhappy80? She apparently understood what I was saying…so I find it odd that you don’t?

As for the tremendous guilt and pain from abortion…well…again, GOOD…I do hope that they feel that…because it is through THEIR pain that we will one day be able to STOP the horror of abortion.

Sadly, many, unlike SoUnhappy80, refuse to recognize or acknowledge that any pain, grief or sorrow should be had after an abortion and they go out and commit MORE abortions.

As for ignoring the women on the sidewalk…umm…I think by making them aware of their heinous and grevious sin…we are actually DOING MORE for them…because although, they may “feel pain and sorrow”…if they do not feel guilt and look to repent, they may eventually find their way to hell…for the heinous crimes against humanity they commit.

So I am not trying to be “unfeeling”, “unChristian” or “uncaring”…on the contrary…I am willing to speak the Truth, so that their souls, as well as the souls of those who commit the heinous act, may be saved so one day, we can hopefully, all find our way, through His Grace and Mercy, in Heaven together!

And isn’t that the more loving and caring thing to do? I am concerned with their eternal life, not just the short life they have here in this world!

 

[leftistdestroye]

SoUnhappy80;3622787

If you are talking about people screaming at me and trying to break into my car and throw things are me, then no that did not work, not can I see how anyone would see it would.

And all that happend the one time you went in for an abortion?

The mother’s life is matters too. For every one you bring to you by yelling at them they are murderers, there are 3 or 4 you could have helped if you asked them their story and they just walked in the door already feeling depressed and now worse.

As of right now, I will let others help the ones feeling depressed. I am only about stopping the killing. Besides, we can’t even get close enough to them to talk. LOL So we have to yell!

As the posters said previously, we get such a cold reception from the ones that are supposed to be on God’ side and when you walk in, you get comforting nurses and counselors. It may be twisted, but the fact is, you are driving the women away from the TRUTH and pushing them to the ones that want to take their money and babies - and the mothers are relieved because no one is screaming and calling them horrible names. It may not be what you like, but it’s how it is.

I am sorry that they are too dense to even ask why people are so upset. Outrage, usually, sparks one’s curiosity. And I am not seeing kind words doing much to stop abortion either. Like it or not, that polite method is not working. And all of my protests are just that, polite, and we get spit on and flipped off all the time. Time to fight back.

 

[leftistdestroye]

SoUnhappy80;3622987]

but women get an abortion for a reason, and unless we get to the bottom of a woman’s problem and offer other solutions, she will get an abortion.

Because it is accepted, encouraged, and selfish. We need to re instae a stigma on abortion.

The argument then “I don’t have time to talk to every woman” doesn’t hold up.

That was not really my point, but, it really dosen’t matter.

If the life of the baby really is cared about, then care about the mother. She makes the decision after all. If you care, you care and are willing to go all the way - if you aren’t willing to talk to them, then what are you doing there really?

That is all fine for some, feel free to talk to them. I will throw a loud and public stigma on it.

 

[leftistdestroye]

SoUnhappy80;3624296]

Hi Danny, I guess what I am saying is that these women are feeling very low already

But a great many do not feel low. They feel that they are executing a right. That they are relieved to get rid of such a burden…a parasite. I say, Nail 'em!

 

[hasikelee]

SoUnhappy80;3624296]

But a great many do not feel low. They feel that they are executing a right. That they are relieved to get rid of such a burden…a parasite. I say, Nail 'em!

Yeah, I think we are in the middle of a paradigm shift in the abortion culture of our country. For so long I have seen women go into a clinic with a heavy heart.

It is now becoming almost an enjoyable thing to do. No, I am not claiming to know that women joyfully skip into a clinic to abort their offspring. I am saying that the culture surrounding it, and the attitude a large amount of women convey, is that of confidence in their choice and a flippant “who cares” to those who might be hurt by it.

We are seeing the end result of this. How long can a person be told to kill someone, to live in a world which sanctions killing the defenseless and the innocent, before that person buys into it?

Take for example a woman on this forum who spoke quite clearly about what abortion is and what it does to pre-born humans. She then went on to fully support abortion.

We are in a whole different battle. I remember showing women pictures of pre-born humans at different stages and they would exclaim “oh! wow, I didn’t know that!” Now I have women pass me by saying they hope the ***** likes getting its arms ripped off.

The rage in our society is reaching historical limits.

 

[leftistdestroye]

Fone Bone 2001;3625077]

Jesus says so:

“Blessed are you, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so they persecuted the prophets which were before you.” - Matthew 5:11-12

Isn’t that a promise to us, not neccessarily the ones that we are trying to save? How does that tell me that my method is wrong?

Not true. The data I’ve seen reports not a “recent” reduction but a consistent one that spans several decades. We have influenced the way society views abortion.

Ok I may conceed that one.

But guess what? You don’t see bumper stickers anymore that celebrate abortion, like the one that read, “If men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.”

No, but we have: imnotsorry.net

But don’t pretend that the pro-life movement hasn’t influenced the way society sees abortion in the last three to four decades.

I don’t. And it peaked in 1985. The last 20 years have seen a decrease. It could be that single motherhood is more accpetable. But still, Id rather have that, than the other!

But earlier in this thread, you wholeheartedly endorsed antagonizing and frightening pregnant women considering abortions.

I did and do.

You go right ahead and do that if your goal is to ensure that they kill their babies.

Do you have any data to prove that a stigma would not work? Do you have any data to prove that my way may or may not work? Other than a few personal examples?

 

[mmm1]

It’s funny you find my words to her offensive, yet show no problem at all with attacking me with hurtful words…sigh… I wonder if you noticed the reply I received from SoUnhappy80? She apparently understood what I was saying…so I find it odd that you don’t?

As for the tremendous guilt and pain from abortion…well…again, GOOD…I do hope that they feel that…because it is through THEIR pain that we will one day be able to STOP the horror of abortion.

Sadly, many, unlike SoUnhappy80, refuse to recognize or acknowledge that any pain, grief or sorrow should be had after an abortion and they go out and commit MORE abortions.

As for ignoring the women on the sidewalk…umm…I think by making them aware of their heinous and grevious sin…we are actually DOING MORE for them…because although, they may “feel pain and sorrow”…if they do not feel guilt and look to repent, they may eventually find their way to hell…for the heinous crimes against humanity they commit.

So I am not trying to be “unfeeling”, “unChristian” or “uncaring”…on the contrary…I am willing to speak the Truth, so that their souls, as well as the souls of those who commit the heinous act, may be saved so one day, we can hopefully, all find our way, through His Grace and Mercy, in Heaven together!

And isn’t that the more loving and caring thing to do? I am concerned with their eternal life, not just the short life they have here in this world!

neat62, I am sorry that I attacked you personally. I also apologize that I pointed you out specifically & did this so publically. I did try & do so carefully & not use any hurtful words, though.

I did see SoUnhappy80’s reply when she said thank you. I was more concerned with her post # 201, though. She was pretty hurt there. I agree that guilt & shame can be good things & bring about remorse, but most post-abortive women don’t need help in that department. There are some still in denial, they’ve buried their feelings, but even then gentleness & compassion from people that know them is more helpful. I know a woman who had an abortion almost 20 years ago. She has returned to the Church for many years. No one works harder for the Church or the pro-life cause. But she is still racked w/ guilt & cries about what she did to this day. Her remorse isn’t needed anymore, but it’s there everyday.

Women still refusing to acknowledge what they have done aren’t going to be moved to do so by stigmatizing them & using harsh words. Their hearts will be hardened further against us & all pro-lifers will be a common enemy to them.

I do disagree with you, but I honestly tried to not use harsh or offensive words. I really am sorry I called you out on the carpet about this so publicly. I was considering sending you a private message, & I didn’t. I apologize, & I do appreciate your concern for life & all that you do to protect it.