Behavior at abortion clinic

[Monsterkittie]

The Rachel Project comes from the scripture passage of Rachel crying for her children that have been taken from her.
Rachel Project is a healing ministry for women who have had an abortion. It is a way for them to be reconciled to the Church if Catholic. Abortion means automatic excommunication. God’s love is greater than our greatest sins. The sin is forgiven.
Rachel Project also helps heal the emotional and psychological scars.

Project Gabriel (named after the Angel Gabriel) is a pre-abortion ministry. They seek to help young men and women find alternatives to abortion, might include such things as half-way homes for the young women, adoption agency referrals, etc. You’d have to ask your local pastor if this ministry is offered in your local town. We are lucky. We have both Project Gabriel and Project Rachel.

Blessings!!!

 

[hasikelee]

Oh we have a woman who protests this way. She will pound on car hoods and shake her fist.

Here is the thing to keep in mind: after doing it for close to 10 years, she can recognize and guess who will respond to what. And the truth is, some people do respond to this. She and her protest group probably turn around 15-25 girls a month with this method.

It’s not one that I’ve ever employed myself, but I can’t deny what I have seen with my own eyes: as the woman walks past the prayer group she never wavers, as she walks past the counsel/help group, she never wavers, as she starts to walk past a lady screaming not to tear her child apart and waving aborted children in her face, she stops and listens.

I’m also not saying this is a method to be used all the time. It appears to work with women who are being escorted by males and who are submissive or passive. The bluntness seems to drag them out of their submissive state, as if blinking after hypnosis. Also, having a very strong, loud group of protestors seems to make the male back off…I’ve seen women practically tied to the male escorts so they can’t run away.

Single women approaching on foot who are already “showing” (e.g. several months along) are the ones most receptive to a counseling method. They are eager for someone, anyone to take their hand and help them.

 

[kalt]

kalt, your entire stance is based on this notion that the behavior of these men is somehow an obvious counterproductive measure. But you’re just fooling yourself if you think that a completely un-bothered woman, left completely alone, is more likely to just randomly decide to turn around before entering the door to the clinic than the same woman who instead is shouted at. I am not saying there aren’t other measures that would be MORE productive, what I am saying is that it’s quite undeniable that doing NOTHING has a much lower chance of influencing her to turn around.

And if there were indeed a 5 year old girl on her tricycle about to be shot in cold blood, the one who shouts at the gunman deserves a hell of a lot more praise than the one who watches and does nothing.

You’re making the mistake of giving these men only 2 choices - screaming or doing nothing.

As I said, they would have done better to stay in the front of the building with the others. If they couldn’t do that, they would have done more by staying home.

Why make this a 2-choice question?

 

[Dameedna]

I know off a young woman in Munic who stands out side an abortion clinic with a little plastic baby… she stands there all alone and when a woman comes along she holds up the little fetus and says: “This is how your baby looks now…” some of the women stop… some of them change their minds. Then there are others who proceed and Maria, thats her name, tells them: “Just give the baby to me, please…if you do not want it”. Everything is done peacefully but with apostolic firmness and zeal. Quite a few babies have been saved through Marias heroic ministry.

Well perhaps my views are cultural, or just my own personal experience. For every child she may have saved, she may have hardened the choice of other’s. We will never know.

I had a friend who said he was so angered, BY the anger exhibited toward catholics peacefully praying outside a clinic. He claimed they were praying for the women and their babies. I’m sorry but that is nonsense. They COULD pray just as effectively at home, but they were not. They weren’t outside an abortion clinic specifically to pray for the children and mothers it was a specific act of protest.

I don’t believe there is actually anything at all wrong with protest, but I do have a problem with people who are lying to themselves about the reason they are doing it. The mother’s know why they are there, they feel manipulated and judged and if they have a moment of doubt, they lose it in face of judgement.

Thou shall not judge, isn’t just a statement for the fun of it. It changes a decision another makes when you judge.

Is it really easy to abort a baby? For some women it really is. For SO MANY, it is dreafully hard. But as SOON as they feel judged, their EMOTIONS shut down as a defense mechanism and any last doubts are crushed.

I’m sorry my post seemed unsympathetic or scathing. It was actually made in anger. I do, personally support abortion with limitations, but I am really disturbed by the reasons it actually happens. So many women want their babies, and let them go.

I dont’ want religion, or protests to be the thing that pushes them over the edge and I’m sorry to say, it really can do that despite the best intentions.

I think the biggest sin in the whole of Christianity today is passivity, indifference and tepidity. We willingly watch children get slaughered and our young people die spiritually in homes, schools, and streets because we are too chicken to speak out against evil.

I would say that it’s important to understand what is needed to actually stop it, rather than feel “good” through protest.

It may do more harm than good.

 

[Danny_OC]

You’re making the mistake of giving these men only 2 choices - screaming or doing nothing.

As I said, they would have done better to stay in the front of the building with the others. If they couldn’t do that, they would have done more by staying home.

Why make this a 2-choice question?

I never said they only had two choices. I noted that their actions may have not been the most ideal. I said that between those two choices; doing nothing is clearly the inferior. I think we can all accept that

 

[FlatAffect]

This fundamentalist approach does not save souls. It only causes people to be ashamed of themselves, and turn further away from God.

Shame is caused from sinning. No one else can cause you shame. You should be ashamed of yourself if you are sinning and turned away from God. Sometimes you need people to point this out to you. You cannot blame someone else for your actions.

If someone is yelling at you if you go into an abortion clinic, it cannot cause you to be “ashamed.” It may make you uncomfortably aware of your shame, and you may react by blaming it on the yeller instead of focusing on your actions.

But why shouldn’t you feel ashamed if you are getting an abortion? Shame is one of the first steps in realizing you did something wrong. Shame brings about true repentance of sins.

 

[FlatAffect]

For every child she may have saved, she may have hardened the choice of other’s. We will never know

The mother’s know why they are there, they feel manipulated and judged and if they have a moment of doubt, they lose it in face of judgement.

Thou shall not judge, isn’t just a statement for the fun of it. It changes a decision another makes when you judge.

But as SOON as they feel judged, their EMOTIONS shut down as a defense mechanism and any last doubts are crushed.

I dont’ want religion, or protests to be the thing that pushes them over the edge.

It may do more harm than good.

You’ve got to be kidding me? You are actually blaming abortions on some of the protestors? If a woman is walking into an abortion clinic, she’s already made her mind up to have an abortion-she is not at the point of being pushed over the edge. She is already “over the edge” and someone is trying to pull her up. If someone is telling her it is wrong and she goes ahead and does it, then the woman is even more morally culpable. From a Christian perspective, isn’t it more compassionate to try to stop your brother or sister from committing a grave and mortal sin?

As for being judged, what excuse is an unrepetant woman going to come up with when she dies and has to explain it to God? “Oh, I was walking into the clinic but those people praying for the salvation of my soul pushed me over the edge so I went ahead and did it anyway and it is their fault.”

 

[kalt]

I never said they only had two choices. I noted that their actions may have not been the most ideal. I said that between those two choices; doing nothing is clearly the inferior. I think we can all accept that

Again, you are deciding if they were ultimately right or wrong based on only 2 choices. Since those aren’t the only 2 choices, they were wrong, their actions weren’t justified.

When someone feels powerless, they scream. Screaming is arguing from a position of weakness.

 

[kalt]

Shame is caused from sinning. No one else can cause you shame. You should be ashamed of yourself if you are sinning and turned away from God. Sometimes you need people to point this out to you. You cannot blame someone else for your actions.

If someone is yelling at you if you go into an abortion clinic, it cannot cause you to be “ashamed.” It may make you uncomfortably aware of your shame, and you may react by blaming it on the yeller instead of focusing on your actions.

But why shouldn’t you feel ashamed if you are getting an abortion? Shame is one of the first steps in realizing you did something wrong. Shame brings about true repentance of sins.

I agree with you on the shame thing. We’re ashamed when we know we’re wrong.

However, screaming at someone to shame them isn’t going to make that person immediately accept your POV. In fact, it will turn that person against you and your message. The police, remember, are there to protect the woman against you. That is a very strong message. If you act like a lunatic by screaming, you are merely confirming that message.

Also, many of the people going into an abortion clinic are very young women. They look at hysterical adults as if they’re several cards short of a deck. They don’t respect adults who aren’t in control of their own emotions or who resort to name-calling. They don’t respect adults who they think are “intolerant” of differences.

That’s just the way it is. It’s the culture these kids grew up in. It’s the way they think. Work with that.

 

[kalt]

You’ve got to be kidding me? You are actually blaming abortions on some of the protestors? If a woman is walking into an abortion clinic, she’s already made her mind up to have an abortion-she is not at the point of being pushed over the edge. She is already “over the edge” and someone is trying to pull her up. If someone is telling her it is wrong and she goes ahead and does it, then the woman is even more morally culpable. From a Christian perspective, isn’t it more compassionate to try to stop your brother or sister from committing a grave and mortal sin?

As for being judged, what excuse is an unrepetant woman going to come up with when she dies and has to explain it to God? “Oh, I was walking into the clinic but those people praying for the salvation of my soul pushed me over the edge so I went ahead and did it anyway and it is their fault.”

People can change their minds at the last minute. Seeing peaceful demonstrations can help to put the woman’s mind at ease, and realize that this is a baby.

Remember that once the woman enters the clinic, she will be treated well. No one will yell at her–either for having the abortion or for walking out. It’s only outside that she feels this hatred toward her–when people are yelling and telling her she’s a loser.

I believe that most people who are going in to have an abortion are emotionally vulnerable at the moment. They are needy. Screaming at them sill send them into the arms of the people who are nicest to them. Unfortunately, at the clinic on Saturday, the people who were nicest to them were the people who were going to perform the abortion.

You don’t have to say “It’s OK.” to someone who is headed in. But yelling “loser” isn’t going to help.

 

[kalt]

You’ve got to be kidding me? You are actually blaming abortions on some of the protestors? If a woman is walking into an abortion clinic, she’s already made her mind up to have an abortion-she is not at the point of being pushed over the edge. She is already “over the edge” and someone is trying to pull her up. If someone is telling her it is wrong and she goes ahead and does it, then the woman is even more morally culpable. From a Christian perspective, isn’t it more compassionate to try to stop your brother or sister from committing a grave and mortal sin?

As for being judged, what excuse is an unrepetant woman going to come up with when she dies and has to explain it to God? “Oh, I was walking into the clinic but those people praying for the salvation of my soul pushed me over the edge so I went ahead and did it anyway and it is their fault.”

I just wanted to add, too, that these women know that you couldn’t care less about them. It’s the baby you’re really interested in, and the interest in that particular baby ends as soon as the woman turns around and leaves the clinic.

It’s a hard sell, when the person you’re hoping to turn around knows that you have no real interest in her. Once she walks away, you will pat yourself on the back for a job well-done, and she will have to struggle on her own. If you saw her on the street 10 months later with a newborn, looking for a handout, you would be disgusted at what you think must have been the poor life choices that brought her to that point.

Who would take her into their own home? Oh, you would take her baby in a hearbeat–everyone loves a newborn. But who will take the mother in?

And she knows it.

Scream at her, and you have no hope of accomplishing your goal.

If you feel you must say something to these women, offer them concrete help. Offer her concrete help. She knows that everyone loves her unborn baby. There are couples who wait years for a newborn. Does anyone really love her? Oh, sure they love her in an abstract, intellectual, impersonal way. They say they are concerned for her salvation. How many of those protesters say, “I’m sorry for your troubles. What can I do to help you?”, to the women going in, and really mean it?

 

[hasikelee]

I just wanted to add, too, that these women know that you couldn’t care less about them. It’s the baby you’re really interested in, and the interest in that particular baby ends as soon as the woman turns around and leaves the clinic.

It’s a hard sell, when the person you’re hoping to turn around knows that you have no real interest in her. Once she walks away, you will pat yourself on the back for a job well-done, and she will have to struggle on her own. If you saw her on the street 10 months later with a newborn, looking for a handout, you would be disgusted at what you think must have been the poor life choices that brought her to that point.

Who would take her into their own home? Oh, you would take her baby in a hearbeat–everyone loves a newborn. But who will take the mother in?

And she knows it.

Scream at her, and you have no hope of accomplishing your goal.

If you feel you must say something to these women, offer them concrete help. Offer her concrete help. She knows that everyone loves her unborn baby. There are couples who wait years for a newborn. Does anyone really love her? Oh, sure they love her in an abstract, intellectual, impersonal way. They say they are concerned for her salvation. How many of those protesters say, “I’m sorry for your troubles. What can I do to help you?”, to the women going in, and really mean it?

I find this entire thread very offensive and intolerant.

You definitely need to hang out in front of clinics more often. Why not stop by mine, where we pool our resources to bring women into our homes, share our car and our food, help them get jobs or study for a GED, etc? Oh, and we offer this to women going into the clinic and women who are already done aborting their child.

:doh2: Your posts were pretty level until this one. I think you lost a lot of credibility here.

 

[DebChris]

Project Gabriel (named after the Angel Gabriel) is a pre-abortion ministry. They seek to help young men and women find alternatives to abortion, might include such things as half-way homes for the young women, adoption agency referrals, etc. You’d have to ask your local pastor if this ministry is offered in your local town. We are lucky. We have both Project Gabriel and Project Rachel.

Blessings!!!

This is the type of information that is needed. I did not know about Project Gabriel. The Catholic Church (not the Cathedral) in Galveston has a plaque on the side of the church inviting women in a crisis pregnancy to come for help. The only stipulation made is that the woman choose life for her child. We should be reaching out to these women (and men) with the compassionate love of Christ, not accusation.

 

[Pope_Gregory]

No, because no council can cause anyone to have an abortion. That is a matter of free will.

Well because Vatican II was a little more modernized. I believe statistics say almost half of all Catholics think abortion is ok. I don’t understand how this statistic can be so large.

 

[KES]

Would you have been so offended if these men had been standing at the gates of Auschwitz yelling for the Nazis not to kill the Jews? I don’t think so.

You really said that? Come on now, you must know that is not the same thing.

 

[neat62]

I think that was the OPs point; maybe that woman would be in that 1% if the situation had been “handled better”.

Interesting point you bring up about sympathy. Do you feel we should have no or little sympathy for those women who have an abortion?

That would seem to be a most uncharitable attitude. Hate the sin, love the sinner. I get your point, though, if you meant “concern for” rather than “sympathy”.

I totally disagree! Until we actually start putting the stigma on abortion AGAIN it will continue to be accepted as “normal”…and it clearly is NOT!

You bet we should be getting angry…just as we would if we were to witness an actual murder of a child by one of our neighbors…this is a HORRIFIC thing…and until we start exposing the FULL HORROR of this barbaric act…it will NOT go away!

How can we make people understand it is IMMORAL, when we refuse to demonstrate WHY it is???

It should not be accepted or tolerated PERIOD! And the reason it is so widely used…is because all we have is “sympathy” for women who choose to murder their own. How about instead we actually expect them to behave RESPONSIBILY and NOT commit the act that causes the consequence of pregnancy when they are not prepared for it??

Or are we supposed to seriously believe that in this day and age of fifth grade sex ed…that women are just too dang stupid to know what causes pregnancy? (yes, I am being sarcastic and YES…I am a single WOMAN! )

It is our duty to do what we can to SAVE life…not accept the deliberate murder of it!

I say kudos to these men for having the courage to do what so many lack! They were absolutely right in doing all they could to defend LIFE!

Blood, Toil, Tears and Sweat

 

[Danny_OC]

I just wanted to add, too, that these women know that you couldn’t care less about them. It’s the baby you’re really interested in, and the interest in that particular baby ends as soon as the woman turns around and leaves the clinic.

It’s a hard sell, when the person you’re hoping to turn around knows that you have no real interest in her. Once she walks away, you will pat yourself on the back for a job well-done, and she will have to struggle on her own. If you saw her on the street 10 months later with a newborn, looking for a handout, you would be disgusted at what you think must have been the poor life choices that brought her to that point.

Woah. If your opinion of us using these forums is so low, why do you even post here? I can say for sure it isn’t the case with me, and in the little experience I’ve had here, also probably isn’t the case with most on these forums.

Scream at her, and you have no hope of accomplishing your goal.

Are you calling the people here who have seen that work liars?

 

[Magicsilence]

If you consider that the person going to have an abortion can be contrasted to another secular person going to commit SIN A.

Now, if they have no belief in God, then whether they are going to have an abortion or commit SIN A makes no difference to them.

SIN A may be taking drugs, getting drunk or fornication using contraception. We believe these actions to be very much worthy of damnation, but not without forgiveness and correction of the action. Under these circumstances, prayer, silent or signed protests, and support for the person is often the best tactic.

For SIN A you are battling a mindset, a belief that does not know God. And mindsets take a long time to change.

BUT

Although the murder of a child in its mothers womb (and like the ancient pagan child sacrifice) is also a **product **of a mindset (or belief) that does not know God or His laws, the chance to stop it is not present through weeks of support and help, and allowing the person to wander far from God and then return backward along the same path. Once the child is murdered, they cannot be brought back to life.

It is unlikely that the people going into an abortion clinic will change their belief in God based on their 10 second encounter with the people outside, but the shock of images and shouting may bring home to them that 1) The child is a real child, and not just a bit of tissue 2) That killing the child is murder.

Would you not do EVERYTHING you could to stop a woman drag a child already born into a building where they killed children they didn’t want? Even if it was ‘legal’? These protestors firmly understand that abortion is no different, and will do everything they can to prevent it.

 

[kalt]

I find this entire thread very offensive and intolerant.

You definitely need to hang out in front of clinics more often. Why not stop by mine, where we pool our resources to bring women into our homes, share our car and our food, help them get jobs or study for a GED, etc? Oh, and we offer this to women going into the clinic and women who are already done aborting their child.

:doh2: Your posts were pretty level until this one. I think you lost a lot of credibility here.

You are entitled to your opinion.

 

[kalt]

Woah. If your opinion of us using these forums is so low, why do you even post here? I can say for sure it isn’t the case with me, and in the little experience I’ve had here, also probably isn’t the case with most on these forums.

Are you calling the people here who have seen that work liars?

I was talking about screamers at abortion clinics. If that includes you, then I do have a low opinion of your tactics.