Behavior at abortion clinic

[Danny_OC]

Thanks porri, I’ll check those sites out

 

[kalt]

As low of an opinion as you have for those who do nothing at all???

And what of the second part of my post; do you think that the people here who say they have seen the confrontational approach work are liars?

Yes, lower. Neither tactic gets the wanted result. Screaming is wrong. So yes, the screamer is worse than someone who does nothing.

People will say what they think will support their position. I don’t believe everything I read.

The Internet is an anonymous place. You meet some “interesting” characters.

I think some people lie on the Internet. I think others believe that what they say is true, somewhere at sometime, so they don’t feel bad if they’ve embellished their own reported experience.

 

[Danny_OC]

Yes, lower. Neither tactic gets the wanted result. Screaming is wrong. So yes, the screamer is worse than someone who does nothing.

People will say what they think will support their position. I don’t believe everything I read.

The Internet is an anonymous place. You meet some “interesting” characters.

I think some people lie on the Internet. I think others believe that what they say is true, somewhere at sometime, so they don’t feel bad if they’ve embellished their own reported experience.

OK, so you are indeed calling many of the people who have posted on this thread liars. You have that right, they can’t PROVE what they say; but on the other hand, for you to be so insistent that they are indeed lying, you should have a wealth of experience that indicates that what they are saying is untrue. Judging by the fact that in your initial account, you did nothing to stop the abortion from happening yourself, despite being a critic of others trying at a safe distance; you don’t have a whole lot of experience of protests outside abortion clinics. And judging by the fact that you didn’t even exhibit the courage to go with what you at least thought (incorrectly) was right, and TELL the men there that what they were doing was wrong instead of telling US about it, you don’t have the courage to try out a confrontational method of preventing abortion. It seems to me (I say this not knowing you and could be wrong-- but I’m going with what I’ve got here) that weakness and fear are more likely the basis of your objection to confrontation than an actual reasonable argument. We all make decisions out of weakness and fear, but rarely are they good decisions.

And I don’t know where you came up with the doctrine that “screaming is wrong.” It most certainly is not.

Let me present to you Teddy Roosevelt’s greatest quote:

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”

Take it to heart.

 

[kalt]

For those who are criticizing and judging the yelling men, how would you feel if it were a different sin about to be committed? Say your husband is walking out the door to his mistress and you know it–are you going to not yell at him? No adultery probably isn’t on par with abortion, but it is not like you are going to feed him honey on his way out the door. Say a man is about to commit rape, how exactly would you rationalize with him to stop him from sinning? Treat him with love and compassion and give him other options to make him turn away from his sin?

When you are seeing someone on the way to committing sin, it is appropriate to try and stop them. It is not judging, no one dragged her out of the abortion clinic after the abortion and screamed and yelled at her. They were yelling at her to prevent sin–before it took place.

I would hope that I wouldn’t yell. But I might feel so weak then that I would resort to yelling. I think that yelling might keep the spouse at home that day, but it wouldn’t keep the person there for long. (I wonder why those who say that they’ve seen women leave the clinics after being yelled at, haven’t wondered if they went back another time or went to another clinic???)

I would yell at the rapist, unless he had a weapon, because rape is illegal, and the rapist doesn’t want to be caught, doesn’t want a witness. He will probably stop and run away, because that’s his best chance of not being arrested. He knows he’s wrong. Yelling has a good chance of saving the innocent person. A woman going into a clinic isn’t doing something illegal, and she isn’t afraid that she will be arrested if a stranger/witness can indentify her. She has no reason to respect the screamer’s POV.

But how is it appropriate to stop someone from committing a sin? Not all sins are crimes. You may feel the need to voice your opinion about another’s (not illegal) actions that you disagree with.

Since we’re talking about sins and putting your 2 cents in. would you stand outside a no-tell motel and scream at the people going in? How many trips to the abortion clinics have their origins in a no-tell? At any rate, the people going in are committing a sin. So why not scream at them?

What about the young adults who disrespect their parents in public? Have you ever screamed at them?

What about taking a walk on Sunday morning to scream at people who aren’t in church? (Of course you would have to pick only the people that you know are Christian.)

And what about people who are overweight? Do you yell at them for the sin of gluttony? No. Or maybe you only yell at them when they’re about to overeat or to eat something that you don’t approve of, like 1/2 an apple pie.

Do you scream at people who tell lies?

This isn’t about stopping people from committing sins, as if you’re concerned about their salvation. This is all about this particular sin. Someone who has an abortion and is unrepentant is in trouble. But someone who cheats on a spouse and is unrepentant is also in trouble. Is it really about the person going in? No. It’s about the baby, and the person going in knows it.

I agree with all of you who think that abortion shouldn’t be legal. But it is, and you have to work with that fact until it can be changed.

 

[mcphersonpa1]

There are a lot of people in this thread claiming to know how these women think and how to best approach the situation. I’m sure many of them have never actually been to an abortion clinic or talked to some of these women.* Before you pass judgement or form your opinion I highly recommend that pray outside a clinic*. Join the front lines. Prayer is the most effective defense we have against this evil.

That said it is not a black and white issue and it is not easy in any way shape or form. I have prayed outside a local clinic for years and I have seen the destruction that abortion causes. Many of the women are in a very tough situation and are extremely scared. They have others literally pushing them in the clinic doors. I have seen family members strike pro-life counselors who have only asked if they would like more information.

What people truly need to realize is that at the clinics we are not only there to save the babies, but also the women and the people who accompany them. Something like 50% of women who have 1 abortion have another. If you can change their heart, even if they go through the first abortion, you may have saved the life of another child. The best way to change hearts is love and compassion, not coercion, threats, or angry speech.

 

[hasikelee]

Yes, lower. Neither tactic gets the wanted result. Screaming is wrong. So yes, the screamer is worse than someone who does nothing.

People will say what they think will support their position. I don’t believe everything I read.

The Internet is an anonymous place. You meet some “interesting” characters.

I think some people lie on the Internet. I think others believe that what they say is true, somewhere at sometime, so they don’t feel bad if they’ve embellished their own reported experience.

kalt,

I’ve browsed through this thread and also posted on it, but I remain a little mystified over your purpose in starting it.

It’s obviously not for debating, as you refuse to engage in any type of dialogue.

It’s obviously not to state your opinion, as your relativist dismissal of other posts as “lies” invalidates your own posting.

It doesn’t appear to be a claim for abortion, as you haven’t particularly noted any position on abortion. Others can infer from your posts that you at least deem killing pre-born humans as less evil than other forms of killing, but that is simply assumption.

What were you looking for in posting this thread, completely dismissing everyone’s ideas as opinions, and then claiming none of the arguments are valid because anyone could be lying? Do you honestly believe you have any credibility left at all?



My point still stands. I have observed with my own eyes that the method of loudly and bluntly telling a woman to stop is a method that works. Furthermore, it is a method that is verifiable because I have had the blessing of holding the children who now exist due to that method.

If you are interested in clarifying this specious thread, why not PM me for pictures of these beautiful babies who survived?

 

[Michael_Saint]

For those who are criticizing and judging the yelling men, how would you feel if it were a different sin about to be committed? Say your husband is walking out the door to his mistress and you know it–are you going to not yell at him? No adultery probably isn’t on par with abortion, but it is not like you are going to feed him honey on his way out the door. Say a man is about to commit rape, how exactly would you rationalize with him to stop him from sinning? Treat him with love and compassion and give him other options to make him turn away from his sin?

When you are seeing someone on the way to committing sin, it is appropriate to try and stop them. It is not judging, no one dragged her out of the abortion clinic after the abortion and screamed and yelled at her. They were yelling at her to prevent sin–before it took place.

If the goal is to prevent someone from sinning, you must appraise what the best method of being successful might be. The yelling and screaming tends to me more of a turnoff than anything.

 

[Holly3278]

I’m shocked that there is an abortion clinic in a residential neighborhood! Those poor people, to live there.

Yeah really! I’d constantly be blessing my property and saying spiritual warfare prayers to protect my house and property and family from demonic influences if that was me.

 

[kalt]

There are a lot of people in this thread claiming to know how these women think and how to best approach the situation. I’m sure many of them have never actually been to an abortion clinic or talked to some of these women.* Before you pass judgement or form your opinion I highly recommend that pray outside a clinic*. Join the front lines. Prayer is the most effective defense we have against this evil.

That said it is not a black and white issue and it is not easy in any way shape or form. I have prayed outside a local clinic for years and I have seen the destruction that abortion causes. Many of the women are in a very tough situation and are extremely scared. They have others literally pushing them in the clinic doors. I have seen family members strike pro-life counselors who have only asked if they would like more information.

What people truly need to realize is that at the clinics we are not only there to save the babies, but also the women and the people who accompany them. Something like 50% of women who have 1 abortion have another. If you can change their heart, even if they go through the first abortion, you may have saved the life of another child. The best way to change hearts is love and compassion, not coercion, threats, or angry speech.

I know one woman who had an abortion that her mother didn’t know about. When she became pregnant again, she refused to have an abortion, though her Catholic parents were asking her to. The parents didn’t want to see her life “ruined”, and they didn’t want the shame that having a pregnant teenaged daughter would bring on them (they thought). Shame and fear made the parents suggest abortion. Experience made the daughter refuse.

The truth is that many families view this as a private matter that isn’t up for discussion by friends and especially not by strangers. They aren’t asking for your opinion. They don’t feel that your approaching them is an act of kindness. They think it is an unwarranted and rude intrusion into a very private matter.

The only way to talk to someone about a legal, private medical matter, especially when you haven’t been asked, is kindly. You better be ready to duck, because these people haven’t asked for your opinion and many of them vehemently disagree with you. They think you are arrogant and rude for forcing yourself into their private business. So tread lightly.

 

[Matt33]

I know one woman who had an abortion that her mother didn’t know about. When she became pregnant again, she refused to have an abortion, though her Catholic parents were asking her to. The parents didn’t want to see her life “ruined”, and they didn’t want the shame that having a pregnant teenaged daughter would bring on them (they thought). Shame and fear made the parents suggest abortion. Experience made the daughter refuse.

The truth is that many families view this as a private matter that isn’t up for discussion by friends and especially not by strangers. They aren’t asking for your opinion. They don’t feel that your approaching them is an act of kindness. They think it is an unwarranted and rude intrusion into a very private matter.

The only way to talk to someone about a legal, private medical matter, especially when you haven’t been asked, is kindly. You better be ready to duck, because these people haven’t asked for your opinion and many of them vehemently disagree with you. They think you are arrogant and rude for forcing yourself into their private business. So tread lightly.

 

[Matt33]

I know one woman who had an abortion that her mother didn’t know about. When she became pregnant again, she refused to have an abortion, though her Catholic parents were asking her to. The parents didn’t want to see her life “ruined”, and they didn’t want the shame that having a pregnant teenaged daughter would bring on them (they thought). Shame and fear made the parents suggest abortion. Experience made the daughter refuse.

The truth is that many families view this as a private matter that isn’t up for discussion by friends and especially not by strangers. They aren’t asking for your opinion. They don’t feel that your approaching them is an act of kindness. They think it is an unwarranted and rude intrusion into a very private matter.

The only way to talk to someone about a legal, private medical matter, especially when you haven’t been asked, is kindly. You better be ready to duck, because these people haven’t asked for your opinion and many of them vehemently disagree with you. They think you are arrogant and rude for forcing yourself into their private business. So tread lightly.

I am pretty sure you are lying about the abortion experience as you are an anonymous poster.
I Do not understand your morality or way of thinking. This isnt just a sin it is MURDER of a baby. Weather you agree or not that is what it is. At least pray for the woman and the baby. Don’t engage yell or even try to help but don’t criticise those who do. BTW did you get anything good at the yard sale. A crib, bassinet or maybe some nice baby clothes?

 

[kalt]

kalt,

I’ve browsed through this thread and also posted on it, but I remain a little mystified over your purpose in starting it.

It’s obviously not for debating, as you refuse to engage in any type of dialogue.

It’s obviously not to state your opinion, as your relativist dismissal of other posts as “lies” invalidates your own posting.

It doesn’t appear to be a claim for abortion, as you haven’t particularly noted any position on abortion. Others can infer from your posts that you at least deem killing pre-born humans as less evil than other forms of killing, but that is simply assumption.

What were you looking for in posting this thread, completely dismissing everyone’s ideas as opinions, and then claiming none of the arguments are valid because anyone could be lying? Do you honestly believe you have any credibility left at all?



My point still stands. I have observed with my own eyes that the method of loudly and bluntly telling a woman to stop is a method that works. Furthermore, it is a method that is verifiable because I have had the blessing of holding the children who now exist due to that method.

If you are interested in clarifying this specious thread, why not PM me for pictures of these beautiful babies who survived?

If someone else lies, and I point it out, my position is invalidated? That’s some kind of logic.

I started the post to see what others thought of the screaming tactic used at abortion clinics. I didn’t post it so those who approve of verbally attacking others could change my mind, if that’s what you thought you could do by posting.

I have stated my position on abortion. You must have missed that post.

Why did you state that I see abortion as a less evil than other forms of murder? Was that a (weak) attempt at discrediting my position. That’s exactly the kind of statement that discredits the writer, not the target.

You have no reason to assume that. I believe that you were posting that only to plant the seed. That is not debate, which you seem to want.

BTW, why did you also assume that I started this thread as a debate? I asked for other’s opinions on the topic, and that’s what I got in repsonse–opinions. I’m not unhappy with this thread–my post or any of the responses. Why are you unhappy with it?

Am I supposed to be able to tell by looking at your baby pictures that the babies’ mothers had been headed into an abortion clinic???

“It’s obviously not for debating, as you refuse to engage in any type of dialogue.”

Actually, I’ve been responding to questions all along. I think that what you really mean by not engaging in a dialogue. is that I won’t accept your POV.

I think screaming at people going into an abortion clinic is wrong.

What is it you want me to say? What are you looking for in this thread?

 

[kalt]

I am pretty sure you are lying about the abortion experience as you are an anonymous poster.
I Do not understand your morality or way of thinking. This isnt just a sin it is MURDER of a baby. Weather you agree or not that is what it is. At least pray for the woman and the baby. Don’t engage yell or even try to help but don’t criticise those who do. BTW did you get anything good at the yard sale. A crib, bassinet or maybe some nice baby clothes?

I did. It was, oddly, a baby yard sale. All they had was baby stuff. I got a new winter baby outfit. I didn’t need any baby things, but I bought the outfit because the little girl was a very good saleswoman. I’ll give it to charity at Xmas. The yard sale was on the side of the clinic, so the people going in the front probably didn’t see it. I wondered, though, what they would have felt if they had to walk by it to get in the building. The older girl was helping with the sales. They also had another baby who was playing in her walker (or whatever they call those things these days, now that they don’t have wheels). I think the baby in the walker would be a much more effective deterrent than screaming. It was also hard not to notice that these screaming people didn’t care one iota how their behavior might effect the little kids across the street. The protestors don’t seem to care that the little kids who live nearby have to look at the graphic pictures of mutilated babies. And people wonder why others doubt that they realy care?! If they don’t care about the kids who are hear and now, living next to the clinic…

Accusing me of having an opinion about abortion. Is that the best argument you can come up with today?

I reserve the right to be critical of behavior that I think is wrong, as I’m sure you reserve the right to yell at other people when you think it’s justified. The difference is that I won’t yell at you for yelling.

 

[hasikelee]

If someone else lies, and I point it out, my position is invalidated? That’s some kind of logic.

I started the post to see what others thought of the screaming tactic used at abortion clinics. I didn’t post it so those who approve of verbally attacking others could change my mind, if that’s what you thought you could do by posting.

I have stated my position on abortion. You must have missed that post.

Why did you state that I see abortion as a less evil than other forms of murder? Was that a (weak) attempt at discrediting my position. That’s exactly the kind of statement that discredits the writer, not the target.

You have no reason to assume that. I believe that you were posting that only to plant the seed. That is not debate, which you seem to want.

BTW, why did you also assume that I started this thread as a debate? I asked for other’s opinions on the topic, and that’s what I got in repsonse–opinions. I’m not unhappy with this thread–my post or any of the responses. Why are you unhappy with it?

Am I supposed to be able to tell by looking at your baby pictures that the babies’ mothers had been headed into an abortion clinic???

“It’s obviously not for debating, as you refuse to engage in any type of dialogue.”

Actually, I’ve been responding to questions all along. I think that what you really mean by not engaging in a dialogue. is that I won’t accept your POV.

I think screaming at people going into an abortion clinic is wrong.

What is it you want me to say? What are you looking for in this thread?

I guess pointing out the obvious is futile work.

I just had to post my diatribe after your last few posts. I mean, you come onto a Catholic forum and complain about people yelling at an abortion clinic. Then you spew a bunch of intolerance and misinformed non-sequitors about prolifers, with the implication of the post being they don’t do diddly to actually help people.

Then you decide you are still in the right because obviously anonymous online posters are just lying.

Right about then, I couldn’t resist the desire to poke at this thread. I mean, talk about putting your foot in your mouth!

 

[neat62]

“You’re a loser! Don’t be a loser! God loves you.”

No, this wouldn’t be effective on me either.
Calling someone a loser and then proclaiming
God’s love for them is just beyond backward, IMO.

There are better, kinder, more loving/Christian ways
to reach someone than this. They were good intentioned,
but way off track in the method.

Ahh…but allowing one to murder another and then proclaim you “love your neighbor” that isn’t backwards…sigh…



What would you do if this “mother” was coming at her child…say a three year old…with a big butcher knife? Would you tell her you love her and then allow her to stab her child or would you jump in front of her and wrestle her to the ground to get the knife away from her and SAVE the child???

 

[leftistdestroye]

I agree with fighting to end abortion. But I don’t agree with the tactic I witnessed today.

What do you think? Were the men justified?

Well, the “play nice” tactic is not working, so why not try another one. As a matter of fact, I have been trying to promote tactics such as done by these guys. It works for the left, so why not try it?

These guys ARE justified. They are killing babies. Let’em have it!!

 

[neat62]

Well, the “play nice” tactic is not working, so why not try another one. As a matter of fact, I have been trying to promote tactics such as done by these guys. It works for the left, so why not try it?

These guys ARE justified. They are killing babies. Let’em have it!!

You bet they are justified…not only are they doing what they can to save the life of another…they are doing what they can to save the soul of the mother, the abortionist and all those who would participate in the murder of the unborn!

Allowing the sin to be committed…makes you an accomplice to the sin!

 

[Matt33]

I did. It was, oddly, a baby yard sale. All they had was baby stuff. I got a new winter baby outfit. I didn’t need any baby things, but I bought the outfit because the little girl was a very good saleswoman. I’ll give it to charity at Xmas. The yard sale was on the side of the clinic, so the people going in the front probably didn’t see it. I wondered, though, what they would have felt if they had to walk by it to get in the building. The older girl was helping with the sales. They also had another baby who was playing in her walker (or whatever they call those things these days, now that they don’t have wheels). I think the baby in the walker would be a much more effective deterrent than screaming. It was also hard not to notice that these screaming people didn’t care one iota how their behavior might effect the little kids across the street. The protestors don’t seem to care that the little kids who live nearby have to look at the graphic pictures of mutilated babies. And people wonder why others doubt that they realy care?! If they don’t care about the kids who are hear and now, living next to the clinic…

Accusing me of having an opinion about abortion. Is that the best argument you can come up with today?

I reserve the right to be critical of behavior that I think is wrong, as I’m sure you reserve the right to yell at other people when you think it’s justified. The difference is that I won’t yell at you for yelling.

Apparently you don’t get how sick it is to be buying baby clothes yards away from babies being killed. Like buyiung yamica’s (sp)? outside a death camp.
Your world view is different than mine if you are angry at the protesters. I fail to see how we can even dialouge if we are worlds apart on basic morality. Makes me question peoples faith, morals and reality.
IMO you should be ahamed that you started this thread.

 

[neat62]

Apparently you don’t get how sick it is to be buying baby clothes yards away from babies being killed. Like buyiung yamica’s (sp)? outside a death camp.
Your world view is different than mine if you are angry at the protesters. I fail to see how we can even dialouge if we are worlds apart on basic morality. Makes me question peoples faith, morals and reality.
IMO you should be ahamed that you started this thread.

:clapping:

 

[kalt]

I guess pointing out the obvious is futile work.

I just had to post my diatribe after your last few posts. I mean, you come onto a Catholic forum and complain about people yelling at an abortion clinic. Then you spew a bunch of intolerance and misinformed non-sequitors about prolifers, with the implication of the post being they don’t do diddly to actually help people.

Then you decide you are still in the right because obviously anonymous online posters are just lying.

Right about then, I couldn’t resist the desire to poke at this thread. I mean, talk about putting your foot in your mouth!

OK, so you’re mad that I won’t take your opinion as fact and change my mind.

“Then you decide you are still in the right because obviously anonymous online posters are just lying.”

This is what you said, not what I said. Someone asked what I thought about the “testimony” about having success turning people around by screaming at them. I gave my opinion of that and any, testimony.found on the Net.

You have your opinion. You’re entitled to be wrong. I won’t yell at you for it.

Ironically, those in this thread who are in favor of screaming at people, are those who’ve posted the most “intense” responses here. Apparently they can’t handle opinions that are opposed to their own–in any situation.