Behavior at abortion clinic

[kalt]

Apparently you don’t get how sick it is to be buying baby clothes yards away from babies being killed. Like buyiung yamica’s (sp)? outside a death camp.
Your world view is different than mine if you are angry at the protesters. I fail to see how we can even dialouge if we are worlds apart on basic morality. Makes me question peoples faith, morals and reality.
IMO you should be ahamed that you started this thread.

Again, you are entitled to your opinion, even if it’s wrong.

The fact that you think buying a baby outfit at the house next to an abortion clinic is “sick” tells me a lot about how you think. Perhaps the people who live there shouldn’t have children???

I think your post is the strangest I’ve yet read on the forums. It makes no logical sense whatsoever.

“Like buyiung yamica’s (sp)? outside a death camp.”

Well, if I were Jewish and I wanted one, what’s the harm?

Really, that argument makes no logical sense whatsoever.
Aside from the fact that buying an item that’s for sale next to something else that’s opposed to it isn’t wrong, I’m trying to imagine how Jewish items would be for sale next to a death camp. rotfl

You can approve of screaming at people going into a clinic. I don’t.

 

[hasikelee]

OK, so you’re mad that I won’t take your opinion as fact and change my mind.

“Then you decide you are still in the right because obviously anonymous online posters are just lying.”

This is what you said, not what I said. Someone asked what I thought about the “testimony” about having success turning people around by screaming at them. I gave my opinion of that (and any, testimony.found on the Net.)

You have your opinion. You’re entitled to be wrong. I won’t yell at you for it.

Ironically, those in this thread who are in favor of screaming at people, are those who’ve posted the most “intense” responses here. Apparently they can’t handle opinions that are opposed to their own–in any situation.

kalt, pointing out the hilarious aspect of you, an anonymous poster, ignoring someone’s anonymous post because online posting can be a lie isn’t quite an opinion. Well, maybe it is. I suppose others could have called it a different name besides hilarious.

It’s too bad you started this thread and it went nowhere. If you want to stick to your guns that yelling over a fence is bad, no one can change your mind. But going on an anonymous Catholic forum and trying to say everything is an opinion so that you can dismiss it doesn’t make any sense at all. Don’t you have any value of your own honesty and opinion?

Relativism is such a bad credibility builder. This is why I was trying to sincerely discover your reasons for posting. As I previously said, I didn’t think it was to argue. But why would anyone want to state their opinion and then turn around and make sure it was completely invalidated as a lowly opinion that is most likely a lie?

Is this subconscious? Are you missing the inherent irony? Or are you just ignoring the gist of my posts here…

 

[kalt]

Ahh…but allowing one to murder another and then proclaim you “love your neighbor” that isn’t backwards…sigh…



What would you do if this “mother” was coming at her child…say a three year old…with a big butcher knife? Would you tell her you love her and then allow her to stab her child or would you jump in front of her and wrestle her to the ground to get the knife away from her and SAVE the child???

See, this is where you guys are wrong. It’s not your choice to make. It’s not about what you will and won’t “allow”.

Because abortion is legal, you have no right to disallow it.

You guys have to learn to deal with the legal status of abortion.

If you really feel the need to scream at people, go to your politicians and scream your heads off.

 

[Danny_OC]

Because abortion is legal, you have no right to disallow it.

Actually, because screaming is legal, you have no right to disallow it.

Looks like we’ve come to an agreement

I am glad that the abolitionists did not have the same attitude towards slavery that you do towards abortion “It’s legal, we have no right to disallow it.”

 

[kalt]

Ahh…but allowing one to murder another and then proclaim you “love your neighbor” that isn’t backwards…sigh…



What would you do if this “mother” was coming at her child…say a three year old…with a big butcher knife? Would you tell her you love her and then allow her to stab her child or would you jump in front of her and wrestle her to the ground to get the knife away from her and SAVE the child???

And stabbing a child with a butcher knife is legal?

Why can’t you guys who are in favor of screaming at people going into an abortion clinic come up with an example that makes sense?!

I came up with screaming at people going into a no-tell motel, which is another legal, but immoral, action. Maybe I missed a post, but I haven’t seen a post from anyone saying that they’re going to form an pro-sexual-morality group to scream at people outside the motels.

 

[Danny_OC]

And stabbing a child with a butcher knife is legal?

Why can’t you guys who are in favor of screaming at people going into an abortion clinic come up with an example that makes sense?!

I came up with screaming at people going into a no-tell motel, which is another legal, but immoral, action. Maybe I missed a post, but I haven’t seen a post from anyone saying that they’re going to form an pro-sexual-morality group to scream at people outside the motels.

It’s about the severity of the sin; abortion is murder. Also, check my last post, which probably got overlooked since it’s at the bottom of the previous page

 

[kalt]

kalt, pointing out the hilarious aspect of you, an anonymous poster, ignoring someone’s anonymous post because online posting can be a lie isn’t quite an opinion. Well, maybe it is. I suppose others could have called it a different name besides hilarious.

It’s too bad you started this thread and it went nowhere. If you want to stick to your guns that yelling over a fence is bad, no one can change your mind. But going on an anonymous Catholic forum and trying to say everything is an opinion so that you can dismiss it doesn’t make any sense at all. Don’t you have any value of your own honesty and opinion?

Relativism is such a bad credibility builder. This is why I was trying to sincerely discover your reasons for posting. As I previously said, I didn’t think it was to argue. But why would anyone want to state their opinion and then turn around and make sure it was completely invalidated as a lowly opinion that is most likely a lie?

Is this subconscious? Are you missing the inherent irony? Or are you just ignoring the gist of my posts here…

You are saying that I don’t understand what you’re saying. Obviously if I don’t agree with you, I must be wrong or stupid.

Actually, I know what you are saying, and I disagree. It’s possible, you know, to know exactly what you are saying and to know that it’s wrong.

Of course anyone can think what I post here is a lie. I’ve seen other people on the Net post some “interesting” stuff. Everyone has a right to his own opinion and can make his own judgement about another’s truthfulness. I have no objection to that.

You are bothered by that fact of Internet exchange. I’m not.

You apparently don’t like this thread and feel disappointed in the way it has turned out. I don’t think it went “nowhere”. Several people have given their opinions on the subject, which is what I asked for.

You believe that I posted this thread with an agenda, so you assume that I’m disappointed that it “went nowhere.”

You think that because you want me to change my mind, that I want others to change theirs.

You also assume a load of other things about me and my position on abortion.

Quit assuming, will you? You look silly.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Would you have been so offended if these men had been standing at the gates of Auschwitz yelling for the Nazis not to kill the Jews? I don’t think so.

A horrible analogy. I pity you deeply.

They were yelling at the woman entering the abortion clinic. In all likelihood, she may have been making this decision out of fear, ignorance, or both. Even if that’s not the case, her intention was probably not malicious. Meaning, she wasn’t walking in there thinking, “Yes! Today I get to murder my baby! Awesome!”

A Nazi at Auschwitz, however, does directly intend to murder people. Thus the kinds of things one would yell at the Nazis should not be the same kinds of things one would say to a pregnant woman entering an abortion clinic. The former’s intention is malicious, the latter’s is not.

And yes, I know that for sure. No woman entering an abortion clinic is going to be thinking, “Oh, yes, I can’t wait to have my child gruesomely murdered!” Ever.

 

[kalt]

It’s about the severity of the sin; abortion is murder. Also, check my last post, which probably got overlooked since it’s at the bottom of the previous page

The woman going into the clinic and the woman going into the motel, if they die unrepentant, will go to Helll, which is eternal.

Both actions will have the same outcome for the woman.

 

[Danny_OC]

The woman going into the clinic and the woman going into the motel, if they die unrepentant, will go to Helll, which is eternal.

Both actions will have the same outcome for the woman.

I’m talking about the baby. The baby is dead after an abortion. Can’t even repent if you’re dead.

 

[Danny_OC]

A horrible analogy. I pity you deeply.

They were yelling at the woman entering the abortion clinic. In all likelihood, she may have been making this decision out of fear, ignorance, or both. Even if that’s not the case, her intention was probably not malicious. Meaning, she wasn’t walking in there thinking, “Yes! Today I get to murder my baby! Awesome!”

A Nazi at Auschwitz, however, does directly intend to murder people. Thus the kinds of things one would yell at the Nazis should not be the same kinds of things one would say to a pregnant woman entering an abortion clinic. The former’s intention is malicious, the latter’s is not.

And yes, I know that for sure. No woman entering an abortion clinic is going to be thinking, “Oh, yes, I can’t wait to have my child gruesomely murdered!” Ever.

A woman getting an abortion intends to murder her baby just as much as a Nazi intends to murder a Jew. The former probably doesn’t feel as good about it as the latter; but that has absolutely nothing to do with “intent.”

I want to ask a question to all on the side of the OP. Do you think abortion is murder?

 

[kalt]

Actually, because screaming is legal, you have no right to disallow it.

Looks like we’ve come to an agreement

I am glad that the abolitionists did not have the same attitude towards slavery that you do towards abortion “It’s legal, we have no right to disallow it.”

Sorry, You missed. I’ve already said, to another poster, that I’m sure he reserves the right to scream at people when he feels that it’s justified.

I haven’t tried to “diallow” someone’s right to scream at people going into a clinic, though I think it’s wrong.

Actually, though, I’m not entirely sure it’s legal the way it was done at that clinc… I think the people are supposed to be in the front of the building on the sidewalk. The clinic is on the corner of a busy street, and you can clearly see the front and one side. Until that day, I had never seen anyone screaming over the fence–had never seen anyone on that side of the building. Today there were only 4 or 5 people out front, and no one was on the side.

A few others have mentioned surprise that it’s in a residential area. The main street is zoned commerical, but there are still a few houses on it. There are two houses that border (sort of) the clinic. The one that had the yard sale is across the side street from it, and there is a house that borders it at the back. The building nextdoor is a commercial building.

If people are shocked that it’s in a residential neighborhood, they’ll be even more shocked to find out that it’s located between a Catholic and an Episcopalian church! The Catholic church is about 2 short blocks away. (These aren’t NYC blocks. Think small town blocks, each block having 3 or four houses or buildings each.) I’m not sure of the exact distance, but good baseball player could hit the church with a baseball if he threw it from the front of the clinic. The Episcopalian church is a little closer.

At any rate, I’ve voiced my opinion about yelling at people going into abortions clinics. I’ve said that I think it’s wrong, and I’ve sate why.

 

[Danny_OC]

Sorry, You missed. I’ve already said, to another poster, that I’m sure he reserves the right to scream at people when he feels that it’s justified.

I haven’t tried to “diallow” someone’s right to scream at people going into a clinic, though I think it’s wrong.

Actually, though, I’m not entirely sure it’s legal the way it was done at that clinc… I think the people are supposed to be in the front of the building on the sidewalk. The clinic is on the corner of a busy street, and you can clearly see the front and one side. Until that day, I had never seen anyone screaming over the fence–had never seen anyone on that side of the building. Today there were only 4 or 5 people out front, and no one was on the side.

A few others have mentioned surprise that it’s in a residential area. The main street is zone commerical, but there are still a few houses on it. There are two houses that border (sort of) the clinic. The one that had the yard sale is across the side street from it, and there is a house that borders it at the back. The building nextdoor is a commercial building.

If people are shocked that it’s in a residential neighborhood, they’ll be even more shocked for find out that it’s located between a Catholic and an Episcopalian church! The Catholic church is about 2 short blocks away. (These aren’t NYC blocks. Think small town blocks, each block having 3 or four houses or buildings each.) I’m not sure of the exact distance, but good baseball player could hit the church with a baseball if he threw it from the front of the clinic.

At any rate, I’ve voiced my opinion about yelling at people going into abortions clinics. I’ve said that I think it’s wrong, and I’ve sate why.

If it demonstrably and factually achieves nothing, you have a point for it being wrong (screaming and yelling). But understand where I’m coming from; I really believe (reasonably so I think) that it has at least a chance of saving a human life from murder. That being so, I don’t see how I could morally *not *support it.

 

[kalt]

A woman getting an abortion intends to murder her baby just as much as a Nazi intends to murder a Jew. The former probably doesn’t feel as good about it as the latter; but that has absolutely nothing to do with “intent.”

I want to ask a question to all on the side of the OP. Do you think abortion is murder?

Abortion is legal, and in this society, it’s seen by many as a right.
There are many people who do not beleive that an abortion kills a baby. Assigning murder as a motive to these people is wrong.

We see abortion as murder, but these people don’t. Saying that they have the same mindset and motives as Nazis is missing the reality of the situation.

I don’t doubt that some people do understand that it’s a baby, and they want to get rid of it anyway. How many women have killed their babies for convenience? It’s no unheard of.

But assigning that mindset to all, and comparing them to Nazis, is nothing but sensationalism, imo.

Abortion doesn’t need to be sensationalized. The truth of the matter is enough.

Calling people who get abortions Nazis or Nazi-like does nothing to bolster the pro-life POV. It makes the pro-lifer’s side look like it’s made up of a bunch of fundamentalist fruitcakes, because that (that all women who have an abortion know that it’s a baby and want to kill it, just like the Nazis wanted to kill the Jews) is just not reality.

 

[Danny_OC]

Abortion is legal, and in this society, it’s seen by many as a right.

The same was true for the Nazis in Germany with regard to Jews.

Now, I haven’t compared the women to Nazis, but what I do indeed think is a good comparison is Roe v Wade to the holocaust.

I have never ascribed motives to the women who get abortions, I have said that their INTENT is to kill the baby. I said nothing about their mindset. But their intent is 100% undeniable. They know they’re getting an abortion.

And if you are right, that many of them “don’t know” that it is killing a baby, maybe exactly what we need is some people yelling that fact to them on their way in. Reason says that a little bit of a risk of making them feel bad is not as bad as the risk that they may be murdering a baby without knowing it.

 

[Et_Cetera]

Yelling at these women most likely makes them feel more afraid, and also causes them to see the protester as the enemy. Also, screaming rude and/or threatening message could possibly constitute as a form of harassment.

 

[neat62]

See, this is where you guys are wrong. It’s not your choice to make. It’s not about what you will and won’t “allow”.

Because abortion is legal, you have no right to disallow it.

You guys have to learn to deal with the legal status of abortion.

If you really feel the need to scream at people, go to your politicians and scream your heads off.

Whether abortion is legal or not, we know it is an absolute evil and is always wrong. Simply because the secular society accepts it, it doesn’t make it right.

The problem currently is that for over 30 years…we have been “gentle” with women…showing them love and kindness…so much so that its consider no big deal today for women to murder their own.

How are we supposed to get society to change, if we refuse to show and demonstrate the horror of it? When we act as if its really “no big deal”…why would we think anyone would suddenly reconsider and realize that it is an immoral act??

We want people, including politicians, to recognize it for what it is…immoral, yet…we refuse to allow anyone to see the real horror of it and we make statements like the one above…“well, its legal”…sigh…

Once upon a time it was legal to own another person in slavery…did it make it right simply because it was legal?

 

[leftistdestroye]

See, this is where you guys are wrong. It’s not your choice to make. It’s not about what you will and won’t “allow”.

Because abortion is legal, you have no right to disallow it.

You guys have to learn to deal with the legal status of abortion.

If you really feel the need to scream at people, go to your politicians and scream your heads off.

I’d be screaming at you if I saw you in person.

I will never “learn” to deal with injustice. I will fight and end it, wherever and whenever I see it. And if you or anyone else get’s in my way, then, I am sorry for you. If this was ever voted on, it may be another story to many.

It’s bad law.

1. In Roe, the court actually said that there is no absolute right to privacy.
2. Nothing in the Court’s opinion indicates that Texas might not constitutionally apply its proscription of abortion as written to a woman in that stage of pregnancy. Nonetheless, the Court uses her complaint against the Texas statute as a fulcrum for deciding that States may [p172] impose virtually no restrictions on medical abortions performed during the first trimester of pregnancy. In deciding such a hypothetical lawsuit, the Court departs from the longstanding admonition that it should never “formulate a rule of constitutional law broader than is required by the precise facts to which it is to be applied.” Liverpool, New York & Philadelphia S.S. Co. v. Commissioners of Emigration, 113 U.S. 33, 39 (1885). See also Ashwander v. TVA, 297 U.S. 288, 345 (1936) (Brandeis, J., concurring).
3. Nor is the “privacy” that the Court finds here even a distant relative of the freedom from searches and seizures protected by the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, which the Court has referred to as embodying a right to privacy. Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347 (1967).
4. To reach its result, the Court necessarily has had to find within the scope of the Fourteenth Amendment a right that was apparently completely unknown to the drafters of the Amendment. As early as 1821, the first state law dealing directly with abortion was enacted by the Connecticut Legislature. Conn.Stat., Tit. 22, §§ 14, 16. By the time of the adoption of the Fourteenth [p175] Amendment in 1868, there were at least 36 laws enacted by state or territorial legislatures limiting abortion.
5. The decision here to break pregnancy into three distinct terms and to outline the permissible restrictions the State may impose in each one, for example, partakes more of judicial legislation than it does of a determination of the intent of the drafters of the Fourteenth Amendment.
6. The Texas statute is struck down in toto, even though the Court apparently concedes that, at later periods of pregnancy Texas might impose these self-same statutory limitations on abortion. My understanding of past practice is that a statute found [p178] to be invalid as applied to a particular plaintiff, but not unconstitutional as a whole, is not simply “struck down” but is, instead, declared unconstitutional as applied to the fact situation before the Court. Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356"]118 U.S. 356 (1886); 118 U.S. 356 (1886); Street v. New York, 394 U.S. 576 (1969).

REHNQUIST, J., Dissenting Opinion

Roe was not only bad law, but it is judicial tyranny! It actually “legislated” certain aspects of abortion! It disregarded certain precidents in favor of their own personal views. It warped the 14th amendment, as it was intended.

Politicians have failed us, and millions of lives! Time to take matters into our own hands and actually get something done. And one more thing, you, stay the hell out of my way!

 

[leftistdestroye]

And stabbing a child with a butcher knife is legal?

Why can’t you guys who are in favor of screaming at people going into an abortion clinic come up with an example that makes sense?!

I came up with screaming at people going into a no-tell motel, which is another legal, but immoral, action. Maybe I missed a post, but I haven’t seen a post from anyone saying that they’re going to form an pro-sexual-morality group to scream at people outside the motels.

Why can’t you provide an equivilant analogy? Abortion is murdering the product of that encounter at the motel.

 

[leftistdestroye]

And yes, I know that for sure. No woman entering an abortion clinic is going to be thinking, “Oh, yes, I can’t wait to have my child gruesomely murdered!” Ever.

No, they don’t think about that child at all. It’s all about them. And I am not so sure. Many women call a fetus, a parasite, so, yeah, some do think that. And, I know that for sure.