The Church has a divine duty to preserve the Eucharist under the form of the Liturgy of the Mass. Preserving a liturgy is in no way related to either banning tradition or introducing radical reforms.
Then you concede that the Bishop of Rome does not have supreme, full, immediate and universal ordinary power??
Oh, whats the use of that? Even without the latin it is still full of antiquities. Empty ritual and routine. Not enough Bible. No participation from the people. And too many people dress up for this! Ugh, where are the eucharistic ministers? Where are the readers and electric guitar players and the female servers? This is the New Church after all! We have no need of such things. Incense makes me cough, and I dont like the lacey vestments. Kneeling is too hard on my knees. Chanting is boring. The Tridentine Mass is long. Bah! Lets go back to our Novus Ordo!
Id have to say Caesar…a vernacular tridentine would give us trads an even bigger heartache than the NO.Oh, whats the use of that? Even without the latin it is still full of antiquities. Empty ritual and routine. Not enough Bible. No participation from the people. And too many people dress up for this! Ugh, where are the eucharistic ministers? Where are the readers and electric guitar players and the female servers? This is the New Church after all! We have no need of such things. Incense makes me cough, and I dont like the lacey vestments. Kneeling is too hard on my knees. Chanting is boring. The Tridentine Mass is long. Bah! Lets go back to our Novus Ordo!
Lolz, a vernacular Tridentine! I think some of the protestant anglicans have something like that
laugh out loudI found this here a long time ago. I forget who posted it first, but I like it
Saint Scaredycats
You’re new in the suburbs and it’s Sunday morning, so you and your spouse drive over to the nearest Catholic Church – uh, make that community. You walk into the modern cement structure and are accosted by a GREETER (so says the sticker stuck to his shirt), who welcomes you with a moist handshake.
You proceed to a pew, genuflect, and reach down for the kneeler. No kneeler! Hmm. So you kneel on the linoleum floor, but in so doing bang your chin on the pew in front of you. Half-dazed, you just sit down. Time to get your bearings. You look around – no statuary, no crucifix, no Stations of the Cross, no Tabernacle, no stained-glass windows. Ah, but how 'bout those felt banners with Latin sayings! Alas, no, actually it’s Pig Latin – no doubt an attempt to be relevant to the Younger Generation.
After the band is warmed up, the cantor announces from behind the conga drums that the ‘presider’ today will be Father Bud, who, after boogying up the centre aisle clapping his hands to the beat, belts out to the half-empty-multi-purpose auditorium, ‘Hi, evvvrybodddy!’ And the audience yells back, ‘Hi, Buuudd!’ Since the Penitential Rite is omitted, you’re quickly into the Scripture readings. No Pig Latin here! Now you’re into Feminese – ‘God our Father/Mother’ and all that jive.
Then the homily. You’re hungry for guidance. One of your daughters is sleeping with her boyfriend, your son is deeply into pot, and your ailing mother wants her doctor to give her a lethal injection. So, what do you hear? ‘We must be non-judgemental and inclusive for God accepts everyone just as she or he is.’ Then an announcement: ‘At the doughnut hour after the liturgy, our Gay and Lesbian Support Group will show a video about alternative lifestyles.’
Since the Creed is not recited, you’re into the Eucharistic Prayer in no time, with your pew-mates standing up for their rites (or ‘rights’), arms outstretched like the presider’s. At the Sign of the Peace the band breaks into lounge music for ten minutes of chatting, laughing, and backslapping. Next on the program, says Bud, is Sister Sam. Suddenly a grizzled nun bursts out of the sacristy in purple leotards. After she prances around a bit, Bud
leads a big round of applause.
Then, finally, Communion. Bud retires to his cushioned Presider’s Chair (isn’t that where the Tabernacle usually is?) as four women wearing plastered smiles distribute Communion. Then Bud rises and boogies out.
As you proceed to your car, still half-dazed, you wonder: Why is this ‘Catholic community’ so enthralled by our tawdry culture, so afraid to be Catholic?"
Indeed. If the modernists had their way, latin would kept in the closet with all the other traditions that have become embarrassments for the “modern Church”.Id have to say Caesar…a vernacular tridentine would give us trads an even bigger heartache than the NO.
Imagine hearing the english…and being constantly reminded at every Mass that our beloeved Latin is being supressed.
Woe is us.
No, I don’t. It’s in Canon Law.
Caeser,
An overstatement, one you’ve made before.Indeed. If the modernists had their way, latin would kept in the closet with all the other traditions that have become embarrassments for the “modern Church”.
This is not an unheard of thing, but it is no more an indictment of the Pauline Mass than rushed, mumbled Masses are an indictment of the Pian.I found this here a long time ago. I forget who posted it first, but I like it
Saint Scaredycats
You’re new in the suburbs and it’s Sunday morning, so you and your spouse drive over to the nearest Catholic Church – uh, make that community. You walk into the modern cement structure and are accosted by a GREETER (so says the sticker stuck to his shirt), who welcomes you with a moist handshake.
You proceed to a pew, genuflect, and reach down for the kneeler. No kneeler! Hmm. So you kneel on the linoleum floor, but in so doing bang your chin on the pew in front of you. Half-dazed, you just sit down. Time to get your bearings. You look around – no statuary, no crucifix, no Stations of the Cross, no Tabernacle, no stained-glass windows. Ah, but how 'bout those felt banners with Latin sayings! Alas, no, actually it’s Pig Latin – no doubt an attempt to be relevant to the Younger Generation.
After the band is warmed up, the cantor announces from behind the conga drums that the ‘presider’ today will be Father Bud, who, after boogying up the centre aisle clapping his hands to the beat, belts out to the half-empty-multi-purpose auditorium, ‘Hi, evvvrybodddy!’ And the audience yells back, ‘Hi, Buuudd!’ Since the Penitential Rite is omitted, you’re quickly into the Scripture readings. No Pig Latin here! Now you’re into Feminese – ‘God our Father/Mother’ and all that jive.
Then the homily. You’re hungry for guidance. One of your daughters is sleeping with her boyfriend, your son is deeply into pot, and your ailing mother wants her doctor to give her a lethal injection. So, what do you hear? ‘We must be non-judgemental and inclusive for God accepts everyone just as she or he is.’ Then an announcement: ‘At the doughnut hour after the liturgy, our Gay and Lesbian Support Group will show a video about alternative lifestyles.’
Since the Creed is not recited, you’re into the Eucharistic Prayer in no time, with your pew-mates standing up for their rites (or ‘rights’), arms outstretched like the presider’s. At the Sign of the Peace the band breaks into lounge music for ten minutes of chatting, laughing, and backslapping. Next on the program, says Bud, is Sister Sam. Suddenly a grizzled nun bursts out of the sacristy in purple leotards. After she prances around a bit, Bud
leads a big round of applause.
Then, finally, Communion. Bud retires to his cushioned Presider’s Chair (isn’t that where the Tabernacle usually is?) as four women wearing plastered smiles distribute Communion. Then Bud rises and boogies out.
As you proceed to your car, still half-dazed, you wonder: Why is this ‘Catholic community’ so enthralled by our tawdry culture, so afraid to be Catholic?"
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t there a very brief time in the 60’s, right after or around Vatican II, when the TLM was offered in the vernacular?Id have to say Caesar…a vernacular tridentine would give us trads an even bigger heartache than the NO.
Imagine hearing the english…and being constantly reminded at every Mass that our beloeved Latin is being supressed.
Woe is us.
Maybe, maybe not. We’ll see.
I wont argue with that, but we are the Roman Rite, not the Byzantine Rite or the Coptic Rite or the Maronite Rite (all of which, btw, have organic liturgies). And I must say against that Latin is only one of the three languages used in the Liturgy, along with Hebrew and Greek. Vernacular is used at the homily, the specified part of the Mass when we are taught.
Im not a historian. So ill leave it to somone else in debating those claims. However I just want to remind everyone…that it is not the love of Latin that makes traditionalists love the Latin mass.
)…then we might just be able to post in completion all the benefits of the Mass in the traditional Latin rite.Doc, I very much doubt that we are going to see the day when the vernacular Mass is gone. That’s not whistling past any grave yard, that’s simple pragmatism.
Yes, a sad truth. It was meant to prepare us I guess for the full blown Novus Ordo
May take some time to learn from the errors of the past (that was why God allowed the NO after all- so we may recognize the true gift of the Tridentine), but someday we shall see the Mass of All Time restored to it’s place of glory.
The SSPX among other groups are devoted on forwarding pictures, recordings, and audio tapes of outrageously scandulous masses celebrated in the NO…to Rome.