J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
I should think it a dangerous, presumptuous thing to imagine that I speak for God.
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J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
So I’m a modernist, a heretic, because I love the Pauline Mass?The SSPX among other groups are devoted on forwarding pictures, recordings, and audio tapes of outrageously scandulous masses celebrated in the NO…to Rome.
If Rome has any love for the Eucharist…drastic change (or un-change if thats a word) is needed. Maybe not a complete removal of the NO…but perhaps suppression of it the same way the TLM is supressed today.
Oh I long for the day when the modernists have to beg the Church for an indult in celebrating the NO.
Alas…tis but a dream
C
CathMass
Guest
I should have mentioned that years ago, a certain church would mail out a subscription of Tridentine Mass tapes and they would send you every Sunday and Holy Day available. Unfortunately, they don’t exist anymore.
If you did not yet see my above post,
I beg you dear Christians to stop arguing. This forum is for Tridentine Videos and not debating. The moderators will shut it down if you keep up. Please, enough of this arguing for the sake of the thread and the original poster. I say this out of charity.
If you did not yet see my above post,
I beg you dear Christians to stop arguing. This forum is for Tridentine Videos and not debating. The moderators will shut it down if you keep up. Please, enough of this arguing for the sake of the thread and the original poster. I say this out of charity.
A
AJV
Guest
“In perpetuity” is found in many other documents, Caesar. Pope St. Pius V’s breviary is not around today is it? and that was supposed to be in perpetuity also.
But to get back to the video, I’m not fully sure: do they follow the Missal of 1962 or 1953? The scans were definately from an older missal but I noticed that the reverences for example, were made toward the cross.
C
Caesar
Guest
Someday God will restore the Mass to it’s place in the Church. And then, yes, the liberals and the modernists will have to beg faithful Bishops for an indult to have the Novus Ordo. Imagine that- hard to see now, but someday…The SSPX among other groups are devoted on forwarding pictures, recordings, and audio tapes of outrageously scandulous masses celebrated in the NO…to Rome.
If Rome has any love for the Eucharist…drastic change (or un-change if thats a word) is needed. Maybe not a complete removal of the NO…but perhaps suppression of it the same way the TLM is supressed today.
Oh I long for the day when the modernists have to beg the Church for an indult in celebrating the NO.
Alas…tis but a dream
We must first learn from the mistakes of the past. That the Mass belongs to God, not man.
M
Missa_Solemnis
Guest
Im not going to use any reference to people.
But modernists are modernists not because they love the Pauline Mass…but because they intend to modernize the Church.
You however are not a modernist (nor is anyone else a modernist) for loving the NO.
The modernists are those who created the NO in hopes of bringing the Church up-to-date (i.e modernizing) with the rest of the World.
C
Caesar
Guest
Do you really want me to answer that?
D
Dr.Bombay
Guest
Yes, it is. And you are speaking in circles. If he has supreme, full, immediate and universal ordinary power then he can bind his successor on a disciplinary matter, can he not? Otherwise, what does “supreme” and “universal” mean?
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
The pope can bind his successors (and the faithful) on matters of faith or morals. He cannot bind his successors, who also enjoy the same authority, on matters of discipline. You know this, Doc.
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
Fire away. I’ve never been afraid of the opinon of a teenager.
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
Here’s a link to New Advent’s entry on modernism. newadvent.org/cathen/10415a.htm
I don’t believe that I am guilty of wanting to adapt the Church to the modern world. But I also don’t think that in the exercise of her authority to order her sacraments in the institution of the Novus Ordo that the Church wanted to adapt the Church to the ideas of the world. I don’t think that the Church has ever thought that the “world” had much to recommend it.
M
Missa_Solemnis
Guest
Unfortunatly I dont have the mental energy right now to delve into a full blown article. Ill just say this though:
in my mind a modernist is somone who intends to modernize the Church.
Changing the Mass to fit the needs of the people at the time is a fulfillment of modernizing the Church.
You didnt change the Mass, and as far as I can tell you simply prefer the NO.
The modernists are those who wish to stamp out the tradition of the Church and introduce a new modern theology accompanied by “modernized” versions of the Mass, vestements, Church architecture, Church philosophy…the list is endless.
Those people…I certainly do believe are heretics.
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
But that’s where some historical perspective might come in handy!
All architecture at some point was new or “modern” (and I’m playing advocatus diaboli, because I loathe modern architecture), vestments have changed (what do you regard as a “modern” vestment? The Gothic chasuble is actually older than the Roman or “fiddleback”).
One component of modernism might be said to be indifferentism, ie., it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as you’re sincere or nice or whatever. That’s modern because it’s a modern, secular idea. I’m not guilty of that nor do I believe that the Church is.
The Novus Ordo is NOT a product of “modernism” in the way that the Church understands “modernism.”
D
Dr.Bombay
Guest
I do? Perhaps I’m playing devil’s advocate. Or not.
Says who? Why can’t he bind on discipline if he’s got the supreme power? It’s supreme, ain’t it?
C
CatholicNerd
Guest
There was a provisional missal in effect in 1965 that retained many elements of the Tridentine Mass that was said in the vernacular, but it was quickly suppressed in the parishes in favor of the Pauline Ordo.
There are, however, some Benedictines at the Clear Creak Monastery that have been given a special indult to incorporate at least part of that Missal into their Masses. I’d really like to go some time. They’re an offshoot of Solesmes, so you know they’ve got to be doing something right liturgically.
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
He can bind on discipline, I should say, for as long as he’s got the supreme power. When he doesn’t have it any longer, either through death or through abdication, whatever he imposed is only binding for as long as his successors allow it to be.
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
They sent me a CD of their chant with a begging letter. Quite beautiful.There was a provisional missal in effect in 1965 that retained many elements of the Tridentine Mass that was said in the vernacular, but it was quickly suppressed in the parishes in favor of the Pauline Ordo.
There are, however, some Benedictines at the Clear Creak Monastery that have been given a special indult to incorporate at least part of that Missal into their Masses. I’d really like to go some time. They’re an offshoot of Solesmes, so you know they’ve got to be doing something right liturgically.
D
Dr.Bombay
Guest
I’m a doctor, Kirk, not a lawyer. I’m afraid you’ve lost me.
Words mean things. Supreme and universal mean something. This isn’t like the democrats coming into congress and overturning everything the republicans did.
Or is it?
D
Dr.Bombay
Guest
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
Don’t make assumptions, Doc. I’m just an orthodox Catholic defending my Church. I told you I’ve always supported the Indult and I meant it.
What mailing list did you reckon I’d be on, “Liturgical Innovations Monthly?” “Altar Dancers Unlimited?” “Radical Lesbisan Nuns Who Refuse to Shave Their Legs Council?”
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