Beware of the Occult

[TOP]

The point is not if there is a real "book of the dead’ writing in blood. The point is there are occult books with that title that cover myths, spells … and are considered an “anti-sacrament” robbing grace and to be avoided. Tim

 

[KarenNC]

My main reason and concern of the thread is about an interveiw I heard a few years ago with a satanist and his tactics of recruitment. He bragged how the easiest targets where the religous in christian churches and how he frequented different churches through out the week. Posing as a christian he would start groups and introduce people to study different occult practice's as a way of preventive identification. This would spark curiosity and lead to , what he called a "fall". That was his prime objective. The reason, was his belief in a hierarchy of hell and his place in the "mantle" would be elevated as a result of a christians "fall".

So this is someone you heard about, not someone you or anyone you know actually encountered? What was the context of this interview? Was it on a Christian radio or TV program or in another context? One has to ask one’s self a) how the program knew to interview this person if he was what he said he was or was doing what he said he was doing and b) why would the person agree to do it?

If he was what he claimed and his goal was indeed exactly as stated, what possible purpose could such an interview exposing his tactics serve other than to thwart his own goals? Satanists of whatever stripe are not, in my understanding, known for their altruism.

Have you given any thought to the possibility that the self-proclaimed Satanist you heard might have been either lying about what he did? That he might be delusional and trying to make himself sound dangerous, scary and therefore, important, at least in his own mind? Or someone enjoying stirring up trouble based on no foundation whatsoever for his own purposes, perhaps to get his “15 minutes of fame”?

 

[TOP]

So this is someone you heard about, not someone you or anyone you know actually encountered? What was the context of this interview? Was it on a Christian radio or TV program or in another context? One has to ask one’s self a) how the program knew to interview this person if he was what he said he was or was doing what he said he was doing and b) why would the person agree to do it?

If he was what he claimed and his goal was indeed exactly as stated, what possible purpose could such an interview exposing his tactics serve other than to thwart his own goals? Satanists of whatever stripe are not, in my understanding, known for their altruism.

Have you given any thought to the possibility that the self-proclaimed Satanist you heard might have been either lying about what he did? That he might be delusional and trying to make himself sound dangerous, scary and therefore, important, at least in his own mind? Or someone enjoying stirring up trouble based on no foundation whatsoever for his own purposes, perhaps to get his “15 minutes of fame”?

Yeah , I considered that. Could be a hoax. I was just flipping through the am on the way to work one morning. I have had limited first hand experience with satanist. Mostly just taking lsd and going to their spot in Leesburg, Va. for a freakout when I was a young teen. But I was convinced by the story. Maybe I’m just gullible. Tim

 

[Mirdath]

The point is not if there is a real "book of the dead’ writing in blood. The point is there are occult books with that title that cover myths, spells … and are considered an “anti-sacrament” robbing grace and to be avoided. Tim

Why would any serious book, especially in this area, adopt the name of a book invented out of whole cloth by a pulp writer? Doesn’t make sense. I hear ‘Necronomicon’, I don’t start thinking of evil spells; I start thinking about Lovecraft and Army of Darkness. Klaatu barada nikhuaghuaghuahgh!

The ‘Mad Arab’, Abdul Alhazred, is also entirely fictional. Any book claiming to be a translation of Al-Azif is a literary joke. Same with De Vermis Mysteriis, the Pnakotic Manuscripts, Unaussprechlichen Kulten, the Book of Eibon, and so on and so forth. Out of everything there, The King in Yellow is the only work to have existed before the invention of the Cthulhu Mythos, and that excellent work is a fictional short-story collection Lovecraft enjoyed and decided to make in-jokes with.

Yes, there are real occult books out there, some old, some new. Saint Albert the Great himself wrote one compendium of spells (it’s very interesting, by the way). Occult practices are as old as humanity, and we haven’t been overrun by demons yet. The specter of nuclear war is far more frightening than the idea of opening a portal to hell – we are quite capable of destroying ourselves without supernatural aid, thanks very much.

So sit back, relax, calm down, and remember: the Satanic Panic ended in the early 90s. We don’t need another one

 

[TOP]

Why would any serious book, especially in this area, adopt the name of a book invented out of whole cloth by a pulp writer? Doesn’t make sense. I hear ‘Necronomicon’, I don’t start thinking of evil spells; I start thinking about Lovecraft and Army of Darkness. Klaatu barada nikhuaghuaghuahgh!

The ‘Mad Arab’, Abdul Alhazred, is also entirely fictional. Any book claiming to be a translation of Al-Azif is a literary joke. Same with De Vermis Mysteriis, the Pnakotic Manuscripts, Unaussprechlichen Kulten, the Book of Eibon, and so on and so forth. Out of everything there, The King in Yellow is the only work to have existed before the invention of the Cthulhu Mythos, and that excellent work is a fictional short-story collection Lovecraft enjoyed and decided to make in-jokes with.

Yes, there are real occult books out there, some old, some new. Saint Albert the Great himself wrote one compendium of spells (it’s very interesting, by the way). Occult practices are as old as humanity, and we haven’t been overrun by demons yet. The specter of nuclear war is far more frightening than the idea of opening a portal to hell – we are quite capable of destroying ourselves without supernatural aid, thanks very much.

So sit back, relax, calm down, and remember: the Satanic Panic ended in the early 90s. We don’t need another one

I can dig that. I’m not freaked about the devil like I was. I have seen enough, been scared enough. I am warning others, mostly non-catholic churches, hence why I posted on the non-catholic forums, that I think there is a threat out there. Bad people with bad intentions. But, I’m just a guy on a computer screen, so take it for what it is worth. Tim

 

[GKC]

“Klaatu barada nikhuaghuaghuahgh!”

What’s Harry Bates doing in there with HPL, Derleth, Bloch, Long, Clark Ashton Smith, etc?

GKC

 

[TOP]

Nothing new under the sun , vanity. I’m glad you have been led to the Catholic faith, but those a dead words. The Lord said nothing to me in them. Tsuzuki, are you into the occult and Catholic? Tim

 

[TOP]

I am into the occult and studying to become Catholic.

Don’t you think you should consult some Church authority about this? Perhaps a spiritual adviser in a Priest. Tim

 

[Mirdath]

“Klaatu barada nikhuaghuaghuahgh!”

What’s Harry Bates doing in there with HPL, Derleth, Bloch, Long, Clark Ashton Smith, etc?

You need to see Army of Darkness They’re the ‘magic words’ one has to recite before picking up the Necronomicon, and if you screw up (or, like Ash, forget the last syllable), Bad Things happen.

I do know where it came from though – The Day The Earth Stood Still was a great movie, and yes, I’ve read ‘Farewell to the Master’

 

[TOP]

Pity. Nothing one way or the other? When he says that Catholic Christianity is the legitimate daughter of Jesus, whom the magi adored, it says nothing to you?

No it really didn’t. Tim

 

[GKC]

You need to see Army of Darkness They’re the ‘magic words’ one has to recite before picking up the Necronomicon, and if you screw up (or, like Ash, forget the last syllable), Bad Things happen.

I do know where it came from though – The Day The Earth Stood Still was a great movie, and yes, I’ve read ‘Farewell to the Master’

I have seen Army of Darkness (and met Ash). I had forgotten the words there, though. Which aren’t in “Farewell” (though Klaatu is, of course, and Gort is Gnut.

Sounds like you and I have done a lot of similar reading. I picked up de Camp’s “version” of the Necronomicon, for a few cents, signed limited edition, in repeating Arabic, no less. Or, make that pseudo-Arabic.

GKC

 

[TOP]

Don’t think I haven’t already done so. If anything I like to be thorough. If I wanted to be sloppy there are many more liberal churches I could choose from. I’m becoming Roman Catholic, and that demands some seriousness.

In talking with my confessor/adviser, the tone was deadly serious when we discussed things of this nature. I fully believe in the persona christi capitis in the confessional and was warned against it, as Christ would/did. Did you get a different impression about the occult? Tim

 

[TOP]

Tsuzuki, Look into Dominus Iesus, esp. this; 86 Indeed, some prayers and rituals of the other religions may assume a role of preparation for the Gospel, in that they are occasions or pedagogical helps in which the human heart is prompted to be open to the action of God.87 One cannot attribute to these, however, a divine origin or an ex opere operato salvific efficacy, which is proper to the Christian sacraments.88 Furthermore, it cannot be overlooked that other rituals, insofar as they depend on superstitions or other errors (cf. 1 Cor 10:20-21), constitute an obstacle to salvation.89
The whole document;
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html
This document confirms what the adviser stated and was within sound doctrine. Tim

 

[TOP]

Our definitions of the occult are different, so of course I got a different impression, because they are in fact two different things.

See what I mean about being specific?

Yes

 

[TOP]

Thanks.

Your welcome.

 

[Tig]

New to the forum but I am enjoying the discussion. My 2 cents worth is if any book, occult or otherwise, leads you away from your faith, you better look twice again at your faith and your own knowledge of your faith. Now then, hoping you all carry on with your discussion as I am enjoying it.

-Peace-

 

[Ahimsa]

Many Teachers have warned against un-intelligent approaches to the occult. The Buddha warned against the desire to produce miracles. Meher Baba distinguished occultism from true spirituality:

Most persons consciously or unconsciously attach undue importance to occult phenomena and mistake them for spirituality. For them, miracles and spirit-phenomena are the real topics of absorbing interest, and this is presumed to indicate an interest in the true life of the spirit. There is a very clear and definite distinction, however, between occultism and mysticism, between spiritualism and spirituality; and any failure to grasp the full import of this difference can only lead to confusion.

The novice may seek some occult powers and, within certain limits, even succeed in having them, but this new attainment will prove to be a curse rather than a blessing if he is not spiritually prepared for the adequate fulfillment of the new responsibility implied in the acquisition of the new powers. Even the slightest misuse of occult power has a severe reaction and creates a binding for the soul. Sometimes it may retard the progress of the aspirant and may even lead to a considerable set-back.
– Discourses

 

[Bennie_P]

Don’t think I haven’t already done so. If anything I like to be thorough. If I wanted to be sloppy there are many more liberal churches I could choose from. I’m becoming Roman Catholic, and that demands some seriousness.

If you are serious then you need to start getting away from Gnostic heresies, and stop thinking there is something in your intellect that can bring illumination - these ancient heresies are rediscovered by each new generation and only kept alive be delousional old farts like we find in people such as Eliphas Levi. The occult is full of mind games and that is all you will be doing is playing mind games and considering yourself to be wise all the time enslaving yourself to foolish knowledge from the minds such people as Levi, Crowley and Gardner. It is hard to become trully enlighten when the mind is full of onself and the “knowledge” of those that are full of themselves. There is the true danger of the occult, the contentious regurgitation of the nonsense sold to you by middle-age adolescents.

For, professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts and of creeping things.
Wherefore, God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness: to dishonour their own bodies among themselves.
Who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Romans 1:22 -25

 

[Ahimsa]

Eliphas Levi was Catholic, and I have no love for the likes of Crowley or Gardner.

Interestingly, Crowley claimed to be Levi, reincarnated. (Levi died 1875; Crowley born 1875).

The thing about Crowley is that he was raised in a very strict, very apocalyptic, very non-liturgical (and, I think, a very anti-Catholic) Protestant sect: the Plymouth Brethren.

Crowley’s reaction against Christianity, then, has to be seen in that context.

(By the way, Emergent Church leader Brian McLaren was also raised in the Brethren, but don’t hold that against him.)

 

[Bennie_P]

Eliphas Levi was Catholic, and I have no love for the likes of Crowley or Gardner.

You have a strange idea of what being Catholic means
He may have been raised Catholic and even entertained the thought of being a priest, but I wouldn’t call him Catholic.

Eliphas Levi (1810 - 1875) The pseudonym of Alphonse Louis Constant, a French occultist who was largely responsible for the revival of interest in magic in the 19th century. Levi studied magic and believed in it but was more of a commentator than and adept, though he did claim to practice necromancy on several occasions.

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived: God is not mocked.