Beware of the Occult

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I don’t think there is anything wrong with studying the occult. I’ve read various internet articles about L Ron Hubbard and that doesn’t mean that I believe anything he said.
 
Tsuzuki said:
He also fully reconciled with the Church, around the time of his last book, The Great Secret, if I understand correctly. They sound like the words of a man who had come full circle.
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Then take his example and not dabble into the nonsense of his occult writings - where is your source for his conversion back into the faith? For he is praised by occultist and not by the Church.
I am not a judge of his final disposition, nor anyone elses, but the work he left behind should by shuned by Catholics and other Christians. IMHO
 
Mirdath said:
Why would any serious book, especially in this area, adopt the name of a book invented out of whole cloth by a pulp writer? Doesn’t make sense. I hear ‘Necronomicon’, I don’t start thinking of evil spells; I start thinking about Lovecraft and Army of Darkness. Klaatu barada nikhuaghuaghuahgh!

The ‘Mad Arab’, Abdul Alhazred, is also entirely fictional. Any book claiming to be a translation of Al-Azif is a literary joke. Same with De Vermis Mysteriis, the Pnakotic Manuscripts, Unaussprechlichen Kulten, the Book of Eibon, and so on and so forth. Out of everything there, The King in Yellow is the only work to have existed before the invention of the Cthulhu Mythos, and that excellent work is a fictional short-story collection Lovecraft enjoyed and decided to make in-jokes with.

Yes, there are real occult books out there, some old, some new. Saint Albert the Great himself wrote one compendium of spells (it’s very interesting, by the way). Occult practices are as old as humanity, and we haven’t been overrun by demons yet. The specter of nuclear war is far more frightening than the idea of opening a portal to hell – we are quite capable of destroying ourselves without supernatural aid, thanks very much.

So sit back, relax, calm down, and remember: the Satanic Panic ended in the early 90s. We don’t need another one 🙂
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Ok, now that I have recovered from the disbelief. I know it is BS as well as the occult, wicca, spells…as well as the satanic belief of gaining a higher position in the “mantle”. But there are people out there doing this at the cost of grace. That is the point. Not to authenticate the practice’s. Ok , the tin foil hat goes back on . Tim
 
Mirdath said:
Yes, there are real occult books out there, some old, some new. Saint Albert the Great himself wrote one compendium of spells (it’s very interesting, by the way). Occult practices are as old as humanity, and we haven’t been overrun by demons yet. The specter of nuclear war is far more frightening than the idea of opening a portal to hell – we are quite capable of destroying ourselves without supernatural aid, thanks very much.🙂
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Well many think to differ, what else would it be but the demonic that inspires the likes of Hitler, proponents of abortion, and other forms of genocide? Satan’s greatest weapon is decieving the world concerning his existence and making mankind believe they are wiser then God.
Eph 6:11 Put you on the armour of God, that you may be able to stand against the deceits of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places.
Eph 6:13 Therefore, take unto you the armour of God, that you may be able to resist in the evil day and to stand in all things perfect.
 
This thread makes me laugh, the satanist part anyway.

Mantle indeed.

That’s sarcasm by the way.
 
Mirdath said:
Why would any serious book, especially in this area, adopt the name of a book invented out of whole cloth by a pulp writer? Doesn’t make sense. I hear ‘Necronomicon’, I don’t start thinking of evil spells; I start thinking about Lovecraft and Army of Darkness. Klaatu barada nikhuaghuaghuahgh!

The ‘Mad Arab’, Abdul Alhazred, is also entirely fictional. Any book claiming to be a translation of Al-Azif is a literary joke. Same with De Vermis Mysteriis, the Pnakotic Manuscripts, Unaussprechlichen Kulten, the Book of Eibon, and so on and so forth. Out of everything there, The King in Yellow is the only work to have existed before the invention of the Cthulhu Mythos, and that excellent work is a fictional short-story collection Lovecraft enjoyed and decided to make in-jokes with.

Yes, there are real occult books out there, some old, some new. Saint Albert the Great himself wrote one compendium of spells (it’s very interesting, by the way). Occult practices are as old as humanity, and we haven’t been overrun by demons yet. The specter of nuclear war is far more frightening than the idea of opening a portal to hell – we are quite capable of destroying ourselves without supernatural aid, thanks very much.

So sit back, relax, calm down, and remember: the Satanic Panic ended in the early 90s. We don’t need another one 🙂
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I have read the works of Lovecraft, he had a great imagination, I am glad he chose writing as an outlet. Most of his inspirations came from his dreams…or nightmares! LOL

I agree, it is 100% fictional. However what made his stories seem so believable to many is that he did mix a few elements that can be found in history. Such as his Cthulhu Myth, he may have taken the name from a god in Sumerian mythology named "Kutulu. Dagon is another name he took from an ancient Pantheon. Can you imagine what his dreams must have been like?

I think there are two extreme views in the world of Christianity, one is to see magick and evil everywhere, in every word, book, movie, etc…such as the stand that the Anti Harry Potter Crowd take. Seeing what is not meant to be there or taking things out of context and living in fear. Everything that does not have a Jesus label automatically becomes evil in their eyes.

The other extreme is saying…Well, I am not worried, I do not think about it or see it, and it is not there, Lucifer has no Power. Thats exactly what he wants you to think. There should be a balance.
 
TOP said:
The simon necromonicon is considered by some to be a translation from the “mad arab” There are about 5 different necromonicons. Most are hoaxes. I have held one in my hands. I figured this would come up. I’m familar with what you are talking about though.

The line between fact and fiction was further blurred in the late 1970s when a book purporting to be a translation of the “real Necronomicon” was published. This book, by the pseudonymic “Simon”, had little connection to the fictional Lovecraft Mythos but instead was based on Sumerian mythology. It was later dubbed the “Simon Necronomicon”. Three additional volumes have since been published - The Necronomicon Spellbook, a book of pathworkings with the 50 names of Marduk, Dead Names: The Dark History of the Necronomicon, a history of the book itself and of the late 1970’s New York occult scene, and The Gates Of The Necronomicon, instructions on pathworking with the Simon Necronomicon.

Tim
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ISTM that Sumer is picked out because the average person knows little about it 🙂 - except that sounfds remote & unfamiliar​

Cthulu is all good fun, but he’s not occultic, & definitely not Sumerian; not least because he is an invented divinity. Which is why this blurring of lines between fact & fiction can be very tiresome at times.

The Fifty Names of Marduk are not occultic either - they are fifty titles & epithets of Marduk as supreme god of the Babylonian pantheon, and can be read found in any of several translations of the so-called “Babylonian creation epic”, the [Enuma elish](The Enuma Elish: The Babylonian Creation Myth) (= “When on high”; its opening words). “So-called”, because the poem is about the exaltation of Marduk over all the other gods - his creation, or rather re-ordering, of the universe, is only one episode in it. Marduk has fifty names for several reasons - one of them being that the god Enlil, whom Marduk replaces in certain respects, could be represented by the number fifty.

There are some sites of people who try to live as though nothing had happened since the religion of Sumer & Babylonia died out - but even though some of these talk about necronomicons & similar things, that does not make the Enuma elish, or any other Sumerian, Babylonian, or Assyrian texts generally, occultic.

There are texts of that kind - [a study of them has just been re-published](https://www.eisenbrauns.com/ECOM/_0GK0CX07Z.HTM) - but Sumerian & Babylonian-Assyrian literature are not occultic of themselves; they are written in cuneiform, which is not an alphabetic script, & this may have done something to make them look more mysterious than they are. Such texts are no more occult than these: eisenbrauns.com/ECOM/_0GK0CJ2T7.HTM

See also:
 
I know this is off the subject a little but I cannot wait to see 1Anunnaki, darn it, it will not be until the end of the year now. 1Anunnaki

Ancient Sumer makes for an interesting study when combined with the Books of Enoch.
 
Mirdath said:
Why would any serious book, especially in this area, adopt the name of a book invented out of whole cloth by a pulp writer? Doesn’t make sense. I hear ‘Necronomicon’, I don’t start thinking of evil spells; I start thinking about Lovecraft and Army of Darkness. Klaatu barada nikhuaghuaghuahgh!
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Aren’t you confusing your fictions a bit 😃 ? Gort is not a Lovecraft character, but an alien robot brought to earth by a (fairly) friendly alien, played, IIRC, by Michael Rennie​

The ‘Mad Arab’, Abdul Alhazred, is also entirely fictional. Any book claiming to be a translation of Al-Azif is a literary joke. Same with De Vermis Mysteriis, the Pnakotic Manuscripts, Unaussprechlichen Kulten, the Book of Eibon, and so on and so forth. Out of everything there, The King in Yellow is the only work to have existed before the invention of the Cthulhu Mythos, and that excellent work is a fictional short-story collection Lovecraft enjoyed and decided to make in-jokes with.

Yes, there are real occult books out there, some old, some new. Saint Albert the Great himself wrote one compendium of spells (it’s very interesting, by the way). Occult practices are as old as humanity, and we haven’t been overrun by demons yet. The specter of nuclear war is far more frightening than the idea of opening a portal to hell – we are quite capable of destroying ourselves without supernatural aid, thanks very much.

So sit back, relax, calm down, and remember: the Satanic Panic ended in the early 90s. We don’t need another one 🙂
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Auriel said:
I know this is off the subject a little but I cannot wait to see 1Anunnaki, darn it, it will not be until the end of the year now. 1Anunnaki

Ancient Sumer makes for an interesting study when combined with the Books of Enoch.
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ISTM that the film as described on that site owes more than a little to the works of Zechariah Sitchin. :eek:​

 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

Aren’t you confusing your fictions a bit 😃 ? Gort is not a Lovecraft character, but an alien robot brought to earth by a (fairly) friendly alien, played, IIRC, by Michael Rennie​

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I know what I’m talking about 🙂 Go watch Army of Darkness 🙂
 
Tsuzuki said:
villarevak.org/bio/levi_2.htmlThe magus had sought to reconcile magic and religion to the end, and the son he never saw in life accompanied his body to its final resting place."…]
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Magic and Chrsitanity cannot be reoconciled you cannot practice both…
If you trully have inspiration to join the Church then you will need to choose which is it you will want to practice.
Catechism of The Catholc Church
**2117 **All practices of *magic *or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. *Spiritism *often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

**2138 **Superstition is a departure from the worship that we give to the true God. It is manifested in idolatry, as well as in various forms of divination and magic.

Gal 5:16 I say then: Walk in the spirit: and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the spirit: and the spirit against the flesh: For these are contrary one to another: **so that you do not the things that you would. **
Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest: which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects,
Gal 5:21 Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one and love the other: or he will hold to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

It makes me happy that you are considering the Church
  • I’ll pray you’re inspiration is triggered by the Holy Spirit to seek the true Church and that is why you are here. But the writtings of Eliphas Levi are full of great error and heresy and would put a soul in grave danger that would choose to follow them.
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

Aren’t you confusing your fictions a bit 😃 ? Gort is not a Lovecraft character, but an alien robot brought to earth by a (fairly) friendly alien, played, IIRC, by Michael Rennie​

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Yeah, I asked that too. But he’s right, the reference is in ARMY OF DARKNESS.

Neither the DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL movie, nor the quite different short story by Harry Bates (“Farewell to the Master”) upon which it is based, has the slightest Lovecraftian element in it. But Sam Rami decided to mix a little of the EARTH movie into his ARMY OF DARKNESS. Klaatu does have a sort of Cthulhuish sound to it.

GKC
 
Tsuzuki said:
“The Church condemns magic and must condemn it, because she has made it her own monopoly. It is her place to use the occult forces employed by the ancient magi to deceive and subjugate the multitudes of their own day for the purpose, now, of the progressive enlightenment of men’s spirits and for setting their souls free through the priesthood and morality.”
- Eliphas Levi, The Great Secret​
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***NO. ***The Church does not practice magic.

That passage from Levi is** heresy and falsehood. **
 
Tsuzuki said:
I thought the Catholic Church believed in miracles. What is your working definition of “magic”? Eliphas Levi’s and my working definition of magic includes the spiritual gifts mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12. Has the Catholic Church stopped believing in that? If so, when?
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Magic is the attempt to control supernatural powers - to gain power over them by whatever means. A magician may try to coerce a spirit to obey him, or attempt through ritual to force the result he wants.
Miracles are direct acts of God- gifts that God chooses to give. Nobody can coerce a miracle out of God
A magician may claim the power to work wonders by right of his occult knowledge or superior wisdom.
When God answers a prayer, it’s His gift to us. We cannot claim it as a right.

If you define magic in such a way as to include the spiritual gifts of 1 Corinthians, then by your definition they’re magic - but the Church has never defined magic that way, nor will we ever do so.
 
Some religious denominations view the occult as being anything supernatural or paranormal which is not achieved by or through God, and is therefore the work of an opposing and malevolent entity. The word has negative connotations for many people, and while certain practices considered by some to be “occult” are also found within mainstream religions, in this context the term “occult” is rarely used. From Wikipedia
Tsuzuki, your definitions of the occult are just as elusive. We have already established that the definitions of occult are broad. Now we are debating the difinitions of magic. I see a rebelious trend in your thinking and tendicy to stretch Church doctrine. Tim
 
Tsuzuki said:
I’m not going out of my way to be rebellious, I simply call things how I see them, and I have yet to be convinced otherwise.
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But no one can assume how you see them, so the popular term is being applied. The trap of presumption has been unknowingly set by you, which is the main point of the thread. It could have been called " Beware of monkey raising" if that was the means of a fall via greed. The intended target of the thread was not the Catholic Church or its members, but the loose knit churches in where this could slip in. They are still our brothers and sisters in the body, even though they may lack the structure. Tim
 
It is disurbing that if someone mentions the occult, satanist and falls from grace these days that they are labeled a conspirisist. I admit, the devils traps are much more indistinguishable then that and it seems very elementary. I’m surprised that it even received this many responses. But I feel at a certain level it is a real threat, so I posted this in the non-catholic section of these forums. So boys and girls, don’t play with tarots and voodoo dolls and don’t take candy from strangers. Tim
 
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