Bible

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

We continue by His Grace.

YAQUBOS:

do not meet those five questions asked by the Holy Church of Christ. Let’s see each question:

1. Were they written by a prophet of God?
   No, they are not written by a prophet of God, as we read in those books themselves!

“Thus there was great distress in Israel, such as had not been since the time that prophets ceased to appear among them.” ( 1 Maccabees 9:27 )

Psalm45:9:

Of course, he is referring to the people whom God the Father spoke to. Divine Revelation did not cease until the death of the Last Apostle. It does not imply that God the Holy Spirit was not working in God’s chosen people.

ONLY a prophet of God ( an inspired man of God ) can speak the Word of God! SCRIPTURAL inspiration ceased in Israel ( as Maccabees also testifies ) from the last prophet until Jesus Christ, just like it ceased after the last Apostle! So no one was able to write Scripture since the time of the last prophet until Jesus Christ, just as you can’t write now Scripture even if you are inspired by God! Didn’t I ask you why we can’t add our hymns to the Scripture? What did you answer? You said:
Psalm45:9:

In one case the author was inspiried by the Holy Spirit to reveal divine truth, in the author instance the author is inspired by the Holy Spirit to write about revealed divine truth, just like the writings of the Church Fathers.

So those who wrote Maccabees couldn’t write the divine truth. They could only write ABOUT the divine truth!!!

YAQUBOS:

If the prophets ceased to appear in Israel long before these lines were written, then who wrote these lines??? Of course, NOT a prophet of God!

Psalm45:9:

The Holy Spirit did!

As we saw, the Holy Spirit writes through the prophets ( inspired men of God ). The Holy Spirit doesn’t write a book in heaven and then throw it to the earth, as Muslims believe about their Qur’an!

To be continued, if the Lord wills.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

Continuing by the Grace of the Lord.

YAQUBOS:

1. Does it tell the truth about God?
   As we saw in Tobit 12:9, and 2 Maccabees 12:45-46, these books not only do not give us the truth of God, but they also give us many imaginary things… Just read “Bel and the Dragon” and you will see…

Psalm45:9:

Where does the Old Testament mention the Chair of Moses, that Jesus commands his disciples to follow?

Do you mean to deny the third point of the DIVINE CANON with this question??? Can’t Jesus Christ REVEAL a truth? I am not saying that He is indeed revealing a truth; we can talk about the Mosaic Law in another thread, and there we can study this. But for this thread: can’t our Lord reveal a truth that was not revealed in the Old Testament?

So what is your point here? Do you mean to deny the 3rd point of the DIVINE CANON by that question?

YAQUBOS:

1. Does it have the power of God?
   No! It even says that it is not sure that it has a strong human power… Just read the following conclusion of the human author of 2 Maccabees:

“So I too will here end my story.
If it is well told and to the point, that is what I myself desired; if it is poorly done and mediocre, that was the best I could do.”

Psalm45:9:

2 Maccabees 15:39-40 does not in any way regard the truth of the narration. What it regards is the style and manner the book was written in. There is no denial of inspiration whatsoever, it is merely a statement by the author that he is not as polished with the information as Jason of Cyrene was. Read this: “Even if I am unskilled in speaking, I am not in knowledge; in every way we have made this plain to you in all things.” (2 Corinthians 11:6) St. Paul makes a similar comment about himself.

Ooooh! A great mistake you did, Psalm45:9!!! The author of Maccabees is not saying that he is not polished, but he says that he DOESN’T KNOW if it is well told or not!!! This shows that he doesn’t have the power and authority of God. While Paul is always clearly saying that he is talking plain and right things in an unskilled speech!

You misunderstood and you made a big mistake! The problem is not in the mediocrity of the speech, but in the ignorance of the author and his declaration “that was the best I could do”, showing that he is doing all that by his own power. While Paul was clearly saying that he is speaking by divine inspiration and power.

And as Maccabees is clearly declaring that it is not written by a prophet, so we understand the ignorance and incertitude of the author.

To be continued, if the Lord wills.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

We continue by the Grace of our Lord.

YAQUBOS:

1. Was it accepted by the People of God?
   No! And we saw this in the previous paragraphs. Although some of the Fathers and some of the churches accepted them ( and we saw why and how… ), but many others didn’t!

And as those writings are supposed to belong to the era of the Old Testament, we must see if the Jews accepted them as Scripture… And we see that they didn’t!

Psalm45:9:

(Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 6, p. 1147)"There are approximately 350 quotations in the New Testament of the Old Testament. Of these 350 quotations 300 come from the Greek Septuagint. It was the Old Testament Bible of the first century Christians. Jesus quoted from it. The Septuagint included the Deutero Canonical books which Protestants call the “Apocrypha.” The Jews in Ethiopia to this day still follow the same identical canon which is found in the Catholic Old Testament which includes these seven Deutero Canonical books "(cf. Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 6, p. 1147).

The Alexandrian Jews accepted them and the Ethiopian Jews still do today.

(Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Bible 1963 ) “Even in the second century of the Christian era the Jewish rabbis were not fully agreed on the Canonicity of certan books (e.g. Cant, Eccl; cfr. Also 4, Esd 14,44ff).”

(The Encyclopedia of Judaism, vol 15 page 117)" says that the limit of the third part (Writings) was not finalized until mid of second century. In addition, the Hebrew Canon was also not accepted by Ethiopian Jews who accept Septuagint to this day "

(Dictionary of Biblical Literacy 1986. p.321)“Precisely when Jewish leadership officially adopted the traditional 39 books of the so-called “Hebrew Canon” is not known; nor is there agreement as to exactly what criteria were used in determining the Canon.”

The Septuagint is not one volume. So the Apostles were able to use volumes from the Septuagint without accepting the human writings that they didn’t accept as Scripture. They used the Septuagint because it was the only Greek translation of the Old Testament in that time.

By the way: do you know when were the Old Testament books translated in the Saptuagint for the first time? I mean, do you know when they began to translate? And do you know when was the first human writing that you call deuterocanonical written?

As for what you say about some Jews and others being uncertain about the Canon: Didn’t you say AMEN to the following ( *in the next reply, if the Lord wills *).

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

By His Grace…

You said AMEN to the following:

YAQUBOS:

1. Was it accepted by the People of God?
   Why this question? Because:

“For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.” ( 1 Thessalonians 2:13 )

The People of God means the REAL People of God, and not simply a faction of those who call themselves People of God!!!

Jesus Christ didn’t come to Ethiopia… And in the time of the Lord, there were Books IN ISRAEL that were used as Scripture. The Lord didn’t add any book and He didn’t blame them for adding any book. Jesus Christ has the authority! Not those Jews who wanted to doubt even after Jesus Christ came!!

So don’t quote me refusing human authority! I am talking here about ONE point of those five points of the DIVINE CANON, and I am talking about the REAL People of God, and not the unbelieving Jews who still doubted what the Canon is even after the Lord came! And the bad thing is that you are quoting me saying the same thing that I said here right now: "And many Jews deny that Jesus is the Christ! Must we believe that also? ( I say this SUPPOSING that what you say about the Jews is true )

Why do you insist on human authorities?"

Yes! I am talking about the REAL People of God, the REAL Israel, and not those who denied the Lord! And remember that we are talking here about ONE point of that DIVINE CANON! Talking about ONE point doesn’t mean insisting on human authority!

And, dear Psalm45:9, don’t answer without understanding what I mean. For instance:

* And our Lord Jesus Christ didn’t even say a word to them about this!*

I meant that the Lord didn’t blame the Jews for not accepting those human writings as Scripture. But you, as you are answering what you suppose to be a Protestant, you answered about quoting… saying:
Psalm45:9:

And our Lord Jesus Christ never quoted: The Song of Songs, Ecclesiastes, Esther, Obadiah, Zephaniah, Judges, 1 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Lamentations and Nahum.

I am not talking about quoting, my friend…

To be continued, if the Lord wills.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

By the Grace of the Lord, we continue.

YAQUBOS:

So according to which canon do you receive those human writings as divine? Do you accept them just because your church teaches you that? Or maybe Rome is God ( God forbid!! ) and has the right to create a new canon!

Psalm45:9:

Rome is not God, but God laid his authority with the Church. Rome never created a new canon, it bound the true one.

So the Romans must respect the DIVINE CANON that clearly shows that those human writings are not WORD OF GOD.

YAQUBOS:

The CHALLENGE: bring any writings or words that meet the DIVINE CANON, and we will declare them as Word of God!!!

Psalm45:9:

I have!

That’s a lie, because I didn’t see you bringing any book other than those of the real Word of God that can meet the DIVINE CANON. Those human writings didn’t meet the STANDARD.

YAQUBOS:

As we can see, the Holy Scripture gives us the clear “list” of the Holy Spirit. God has given us the clear definition of what is the Word of God.

Psalm45:9:

he List of the Holy Spirit declared by the authority that scripture attests:

Council of Rome

“Now indeed we must treat of the divine scriptures, what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she ought to shun. The order of the Old Testament begins here: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book; Leviticus, one book; Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Joshua [Son of] Nave, one book; Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; Kings, four books [that is, 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings]; Paralipomenon [Chronicles], two books; Psalms, one book; Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book, Ecclesiastes, one book, [and] Canticle of Canticles [Song of Songs], one book; likewise Wisdom, one book; Ecclesiasticus [Sirach], one book . . . . Likewise the order of the historical [books]: Job, one book; Tobit, one book; Esdras, two books [Ezra and Nehemiah]; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; Maccabees, two books” (Decree of Pope Damasus [A.D. 382]).

You said AMEN to the FIVE points of the DIVINE CANON. There are books that the council of Rome declares as Scripture ( as you quote ) although they are not meeting the DIVINE CANON! Do you believe the council of Rome, or God who gave you the DIVINE CANON in His Word?

To be continued, if the Lord wills.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you

The Grace of the Lord gives us to continue. Thank the Lord!

YAQUBOS:

And Psalm45:9, who was asking all the time for that “list” of the Spirit in the Scripture, is now trying to prove that the human writings can meet that DIVINE CANON!!!

Psalm45:9:

I have answered your objections.

You have answered yourself, and you tried to convince yourself that there are answers, although there are no answers! You didn’t show how those human writings can meet the DIVINE STANDARDS!

YAQUBOS:

So, once for all, we have proved that the Standard is not in humans ( Jews or the Church ), but in God’s Word.

Psalm45:9:

But who determined what belongs in the Bible, the Holy Spirit working in one person, or many? If it is many, then that is the ecclesial body, aka the Church! If not, then I have to conclude that the Bible just appeared one day out of nowhere. Just like the claim the Joseph Smith made about the Book of Mormon.

In a previous reply, you said AMEN to the statement that you are contradicting now!!!

Don’t you know that God reveals His Word through the prophets? So it didn’t appear suddenly like the Qur’an! And the Church has to follow the DIVINE CANON, and not create a new canon!

YAQUBOS:

And, dear Psalm45:9, the texts you are quoting from those human writings are not texts without context! They are part of those books that we have proved as NOT MAKING PART OF THE WORD OF GOD, because:

1. They are not written by a prophet, for prophets CEASED in Israel long BEFORE they were written. And this is proved by those human writings themselves! As I have written by His Grace.

Psalm45:9:

You mean Divine Revlation ceased before the coming of Christ? If God the Father was not speaking directly to people, does that mean God the Holy Spirit was not? I suppose the authors of the Psalms knew that their psalms were prophecies.

ONLY a prophet of God ( an inspired man of God ) can speak the Word of God! SCRIPTURAL inspiration ceased in Israel ( as Maccabees also testifies ) from the last prophet until Jesus Christ, just like it ceased after the last Apostle! So no one was able to write Scripture since the time of the last prophet until Jesus Christ, just as you can’t write now Scripture even if you are inspired by God! Didn’t I ask you why we can’t add our hymns to the Scripture? What did you answer? You said:
Psalm45:9:

In one case the author was inspiried by the Holy Spirit to reveal divine truth, in the author instance the author is inspired by the Holy Spirit to write about revealed divine truth, just like the writings of the Church Fathers.

So those who wrote Maccabees couldn’t write the divine truth. They could only write ABOUT the divine truth!!!

To be continued, if the Lord wills.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

Continuing by His Grace.

YAQUBOS:

1. They are not confirmed by an act of God. An act of God is demanded when there is someone claiming to be a prophet. While these human writings don’t claim to be written by a prophet of God, as we have proved.

Psalm45:9:

Esther never claimed to be a Prophetess. The Wisdom of Solomon makes a clear prophecy, why else would the Palestinian Jews reject this book?

Who said that Esther was written by Esther??? It was written by an inspired man of God, in the prophetic era! While those human writings were written long AFTER the prophets ceased in ISRAEL.

It is not enough that someone like you find something like a prophecy in a certain book. The Muslims find a prophecy in their Qur’an, but the Qur’an is not WORD OF GOD. It must meet the WHOLE DIVINE CANON.

And by the way:

"If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,

and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’

you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul." ( Deuteronomy 13:1-3 )

YAQUBOS:

1. They don’t tell the truth about God. They may have true parts: the Qur’an also has true parts. But they have other parts that are seriously contradicting the Word of God, as we saw in what I previously wrote by His Grace.

Psalm45:9:

I don’t see any contradictions. I see denominations that contradict each other. Anyways, what you write demonstrates the importance of the Church Hierarchy maintaining the truth and determining what is not the truth.

You don’t see contradiction??? Maccabees says that you can pray for pagans who died without believing in God, and who were worshiping idols! Do you believe you can pray for a dead pagan like that so that he may have eternal life??? Don’t you see that the Word of God clearly says that TODAY is the day of Salvation???

YAQUBOS:

1. They don’t have the power of God, as those books themselves say.
   N.B.: some parts might seem powerful for those who don’t know what is the power of God, just like the Muslims are finding a very powerful thing in the Qur’an… But those books are clearly saying that they are written by human power.

Psalm45:9:

The same could be said about the Protocanonicals of the Old Testament, which the Church protected from the Gnostics, who would have liked to see them get burned.

All DIVINE Books meet this 4th Standard. They all have the power of God.

Gnostics are not the REAL People of God.

To be continued, if the Lord wills.

In Love,

Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

Thank the Lord who gave us to continue!

YAQUBOS:

. Those human writings are part of the Old Testament. The people in the Old Testament didn’t accept those books as Word of God.

Psalm45:9:

The Alexandrian Jews did, the Ethiopian Jews still do today but why are you relying on human authorities? The Palestinian Jews reject the New Testament.

The REAL Israel ( the faithful children of God ) ACCEPTED the New Testament.

Didn’t you say AMEN to the following:

YAQUBOS:

1. Was it accepted by the People of God?
   Why this question? Because:

“For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.” ( 1 Thessalonians 2:13 )

The People of God means the REAL People of God, and not simply a faction of those who call themselves People of God!!!

Jesus Christ didn’t come to Ethiopia… And in the time of the Lord, there were Books IN ISRAEL that were used as Scripture. The Lord didn’t add any book and He didn’t blame them for adding any book. Jesus Christ has the authority! Not those Jews who wanted to doubt even after Jesus Christ came!!

So don’t quote me refusing human authority! I am talking here about ONE point of those five points of the DIVINE CANON, and I am talking about the REAL People of God, and not the unbelieving Jews who still doubted what the Canon is even after the Lord came! And the bad thing is that you are quoting me saying the same thing that I said here right now: "And many Jews deny that Jesus is the Christ! Must we believe that also? ( I say this SUPPOSING that what you say about the Jews is true )

Why do you insist on human authorities?"

Yes! I am talking about the REAL People of God, the REAL Israel, and not those who denied the Lord! And remember that we are talking here about ONE point of that DIVINE CANON! Talking about ONE point doesn’t mean insisting on human authority!

To be continued, if the Lord wills.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

Continuing by the Lord’s Love for us.

YAQUBOS:

And by the way: These five questions are ALL DIVINE STANDARDS from THE SCRIPTURE. So don’t try to prove that some books meet ONE of those Standards. They have to meet them ALL.

Psalm45:9:

That also applies to the protocanoicals.

Esther was not written by a prophet, God is not even mentioned in it. O wait one minute, he is in the Catholic and Orthodox version

Do you know what is a prophet of God? He is a man of God inspired to write SCRIPTURE. Well, in the days of Esther there were inspired man of God ( prophets ).

Mentioning God in a Book is a secondary condition to those five points of the DIVINE CANON. If a prophet is writing Scripture according to the DIVINE CANON without mentioning God, this doesn’t mean he is not writing Scripture. God can tell you something without talking about Himself directly. The essential is that the DIVINE CANON must be respected!

YAQUBOS:

Listen and give heed, do not be haughty, For the LORD has spoken." ( Jeremiah 13:15 ).

Psalm45:9:

I am!

Maybe just as the Word says:

“‘A son honors his father, and a servant his master. Then if I am a father, where is My honor? And if I am a master, where is My respect?’ says the LORD of hosts to you, O priests who despise My name. But you say, ‘How have we despised Your name?’” ( Malachi 1:6 )
Psalm45:9:

“Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost.” (2 Peter 2:20-21)

Who are the holy men of God inspired by the Holy Ghost?

“Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” (Acts 20:28)

In a previous reply, you said that those bishops are inspired by the Spirit to write ABOUT the revealed truth of God. While here you are saying that they are the inspired men of God mentioned in Peter!!!

To be continued, if the Lord wills.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

Continuing by His Grace.

YAQUBOS:

The CHALLENGE: bring any words or books that can meet ALL those DIVINE standards, and we will declare them as WORD OF GOD.

Psalm45:9:

I have! Esther does not meet them!

Esther meets them, as we have shown.

But why are you answering negatively?? I asked you to bring any words or books that can MEET all those DIVINE standards, not to bring me books that cannot meet them!

YAQUBOS:

1. Were they written by a prophet of God?
   No, they are not written by a prophet of God, as we read in those books themselves!

Psalm45:9:

Nehemiah, Ruth, 1 and 2 Chronicles, and Esther has never been deemed prophetic. There are no prophecies in them, nor did prophets write them. Ecclesiastes has no prophecies and does not make a claim that it was written by a prophet. 1 & 2 Chronicles, 1 & 2 Kings, and Joshua do not say a prophet of God wrote them. There are no prophecies whatsoever in Esther and our Lord and the New Testament writers never made a reference to this book.

Oh, I see! You don’t understand what is a prophet of God! And what is a book written by a prophet! A book written by a prophet is not supposed to ALWAYS say something about the future! A prophet is someone who speaks the Word of God, even if that Word is not about an event that will happen in the future! A prophet is an inspired man of God, as said in Peter.

All the Books of the Word of God are written by inspired authors.

Ecclesiastes begins with: “The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.” ( Ecclesiastes 1:1 ). So it is written by the Preacher, a prophet of God!

All other DIVINE Books that you are mentioning are written in the prophetic era, by an inspired man of God.
Psalm45:9:

Thus 1 Maccabees 9:27 shows that there could be no King until a prophet arises to anoint him, 1 Maccabees 9:27 only points to Jesus.

And it says clearly that it was not written by a prophet of God.

SCRIPTURAL inspiration ceased since the last prophet of the Old Testament until Jesus Christ. And then it ceased after the last Apostle.

To be continued, if the Lord wills.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

The Lord’s Grace gives us to continue. Thank the Lord!

YAQUBOS:

1. Was that prophet who wrote them confirmed by an act of God?
   As we saw in 1 Maccabees 9:27 ( one of those false human teachings ), prophets ceased in Israel since a long time! So those books say they are not written by a prophet! So why do we have to search for miracles confirming them??!! They clearly say they are NOT prophets! So we don’t need to test them if they are prophets or not.

Psalm45:9:

Lets think about this, the only book in the New Testament the was confirmned by an act of God, is the Book of Revelation; where Christ told St. John to write down his visions (Revelation 1:11) Not all of the Books in the Old Testament was written by a confirmed acts of God.

I am not talking about Books being confirmed by an act of God, but THE PROPHET being confirmed as prophet by an act of God!

All Scriptural authors were confirmed like that.
Psalm45:9:

Tobit is confirmed by the Angel (who is God’s instrument), tells Tobit that God is with him

Tobit is not a prophet, as Maccabees says clearly, because prophets ceased in Israel!

Muhammad said that he saw the angel Gabriel! But this doesn’t mean that he really saw an angel!

A confirming act of God is demanded for a prophet.

A Book is divine when it meets the DIVINE CANON, and not just SEEMS to meet ONE point of that CANON.

YAQUBOS:

1. Does it tell the truth about God?
   As we saw in Tobit 12:9, and 2 Maccabees 12:45-46, these books not only do not give us the truth of God, but they also give us many imaginary things… Just read “Bel and the Dragon” and you will see…

Psalm45:9:

As stated before where is the seat of Moses that Christ commands his disciples to follow stated in the Old Testament? The Book of Tobit demonstrates that God comes to the aid of his faithful ones. 2 Maccabees shows the Mother and the 7 sons dieing in their faith of the resurrection, which is proved and promised by Christ. Both books tell the truth.

And they say also other things that contradict the truth, like praying for dead pagans!

The Qur’an also says some true things, but it seriously contradicts the truth in other places!

Blessed be the Lord!

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[Jim_B]

Good Morning,

I wish to thank you for your words regarding the authenticity of canon scripture. I would also like to reinforce that point with this:

The “Church” was in place before the 73 books of the Bible were canonically established. Therefore, the Magisterium (papal authority) must be credible in order for the 73 books of the Bible to be considered reliable. Catholics and Protestants alike believe the Bible to be the word of God - therefore, to call into question the magisterium of the Church, is to discredit the authority which put the Bible together. We can thank the Catholic Church for giving us the Bible (yes, God was the author, but it was the labor of monks who hand-copied every word of the Bible through the centuries that preserved it until the time of the printing press).

When the canon of scripture was defined at the council in the late 4th century, the pope and all the bishops prayed for guidance from the Holy Spirit - that they could discern which letters should be included in the Bible. Can one ask for anything more? Which Bible has the most credibility - the one described above, or the Protestant version, which Luther unilaterally reduced by 5 books? Later Protestant denominations added some of these books back in - but on whose authority could Luther have removed them in the first place (book of James for example)? And on whose authority could the Protestants have them ‘added back in’?

With over 20,000 Protestant denominations worldwide now, it is clear that ‘sola scriptura’ has fragmented Christianity - much to the contradiction of Jesus Himself who prayed “that they may be one Father, just as you and I are one”. How ironic, that in Protestantism, each person becomes the sole interpreter of scripture themself - each person becomes their own infallible pope.
I long for the day when our Protestant brothers and sisters will worship with us Catholics, and received the Body/Blood/Soul/ & Divinity of Jesus Christ which He gave us at the Last Supper. The Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist is a Reality, not because I say so - but because Jesus, who is God, said so in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. He is as explicit as can possibly be, “This is my body” “My flesh is real food, and my blood is real drink”. If one believes this is simply a metaphor (an interpretation which did not spring up until after the 16th century by the way) - then the Last Supper has no meaning. If all it is is bread - there is no grace from it. It is the spirit that gives life - we Catholics believe Jesus meant exactly what He said (“Say yes when you mean yes, and no when you mean no. Everything else is from the evil one.”)

My Protestant brothers and sisters, Jesus awaits you in Holy Communion. To reject the Eucharist, is to reject Christ Himself. It is a great mystery, what we call ‘mysterium fidei’ - the mystery of faith. Perhaps the reason one may not have believed in it before, is because one demanded ‘proof’ and wanted to fully understand it in order to believe. I offer you a solution - Believe first in the Eucharist, and then you will understand.

God Love Ya!
Jim B

 

[Psalm45_9]

Pax Vobis Cvm!

YAQUBOS:

Dear Psalm45:9, I have a brotherly advice for you. Just stop your dishonesty and your hypocrisy. There is moral hypocrisy and doctrinal hypocrisy. The Pharisees had them both… What about you? Do you just have the doctrinal hypocrisy?…

You sound just like a Pharisee, thank you Lord!

YAQUBOS:

It’s very dishonest to test someone and to try to take words from his mouth to use them afterwards in a very wrong way and out of context. The Pharisees used to do that with our Lord, and the Lord called them HYPOCRITES! Just ask yourself: would Jesus do this?

And the Pharisees condemned our Lord, why do you insist on them to determine the Canon? You told me that we should not rely on the Jews, I agree.

YAQUBOS:

You first asked for the “list” of the Spirit. You insisted on that and you wanted an answer. When I gave you the Lord’s answer, you began to doubt about what God says.

No, because I know the list that God made.

YAQUBOS:

Psalm45:9, before you begin your discussion against the children of God, you must be sure you are accepting what God says.

Those who remained faithful to God an accepted his son are the children of God, aka the Church. Jewish and secular sources show that the canon was not determined at the time of Christ. Jewish and secular sources that Jews today accept the Deuterocanonicals.

YAQUBOS:

Did you accept the DIVINE CANON? After you received the “list” of the Spirit, you began to throw your doubt on it! What will happen if I show you how vain are your human oppositions to the clear DIVINE CANON? Won’t you try again to make opposition??

I do accept the list of the Holy Spirit, for it guided the church to declare it at the council of Rome.

My friend, you don’t need to be hypocrite in order to defend those Roman philosophies. They don’t deserve the cost. If you just accept what God is saying, you will be SINCERE in Him.

YAQUBOS:

You have to choose, my friend. Do you accept the DIVINE CANON? Are you ready to deny every human book that doesn’t meet the DIVINE CANON?

I accept the Divine Canon, determined by the Holy Spirit at the council of Rome. I deny every human book, ex. The Gospel of Thomas, The Gospel of Philip, The Gospel of Mary Magdalene…

YAQUBOS:

You are writing many things, thus showing that your interest is not in explaining to me, but in proving to yourself and to others that you have “answers”…

No, that’s you, doesn’t it feel good?

YAQUBOS:

If you want the glory of men, you can’t believe, as our Lord said.

So you do believe I’m a Christian. I see God’s grace at work!

YAQUBOS:

If you want to explain to me, you must first understand what I am telling you.

OK, ditto.

YAQUBOS:

By the Grace of the Lord, I will have the patience to explain everything to you step by step.

It would be nice if you could show the same courtesy on these forums.

YAQUBOS:

But:

Are you convinced that we must not receive as DIVINE WORD all the words that do not meet the DIVINE CANON?

Yes! And the Deuterocanonicals meet the Divine Canon!

YAQUBOS:

And before writing anything, ask yourself: what would Jesus do if He were in my place?

Say, “Father forgive them, they know not what they do.”

 

[Psalm45_9]

Pax Vobis Cvm!

YAQUBOS:

Lord, bless this study. Amen!

Amen!

YAQUBOS:

Why not the Jewish Tradition also? Did Moses and the prophets write everything??? So is there not a Jewish Tradition?

Yes, the chair of Moses that our Lord commanded his disciples to follow. Prayers to the Saints and prayers to the dead, have Jewish roots.

YAQUBOS:

Psalm45:9, you have to explain to me what is the difference between determining and deciding what is the Word of God.

Scripture already existed at the time of the council of Rome. The Holy Spirit led the council to determine which writings are scripture. The decision is a personal choice, whether or not to accept this council is a decision.

YAQUBOS:

Aha! So by “determined” you mean “declared”, right? So God told the Church what is His Word, and the Church just declared it, right?

BINGO! It existed, they just had to find which writings belonged in the canon.

YAQUBOS:

If right, then please tell me how did God tell the Church what is His Word. Is it not by the DIVINE CANON that I wrote in the posts # 242 - 247 in this thread? If yes, then all what we declare as Word of God must meet that DIVINE STANDARD.

It was by the Holy Spirit, which guides us to all truth. The Deuterocanonicals meet that Divine Standard, I have demonstrated that.

 

[Psalm45_9]

Pax Vobis Cvm!

YAQUBOS:

You are talking about those who disagreed as if we are talking about the time BEFORE accepting those Books as Scripture. But the fact is that all those Books were already ACCEPTED by the Church as Word of God, and some Christians just doubted what was ALREADY accepted.

Exactly, they did not accept the Deuterocanonicals, as some don’t today.

YAQUBOS:

So this makes: the whole Church accepted those Books, and some just doubted.

Yup, some people disagreed about the Deuterocanonicals, but not the whole church.

YAQUBOS:

That’s a beautiful AMEN! This shows that you accept the DIVINE CANON. Now let’s see which books meet that STANDARD.

Yes, which includes the Deuterocanonicals.

YAQUBOS:

As you say AMEN when we said that the SWORD of the Spirit ( the Word of God ) gives the Church the DIVINE STANDARDS, so we conclude that the Holy Spirit tells the Church by those standards that we have read in the Word of God.

So the Shepherd of Hermas is scripture?

YAQUBOS:

Jesus Christ didn’t come to Ethiopia… And in the time of the Lord, there were Books IN ISRAEL that were used as Scripture. The Lord didn’t add any book and He didn’t blame them for adding any book. Jesus Christ has the authority! Not those Jews who wanted to doubt even after Jesus Christ came!!

St. Philip baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch in the Acts of the Apostles, so the Gospel and the Holy Spirit came to Ethiopia. Jesus said the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms spoke of him. Daniel is classified as a writing, so did he mean Daniel too? Which Psalms are he talking about, not all of them speak of him, are those scripture?

YAQUBOS:

So don’t quote me refusing human authority! I am talking here about ONE point of those five points of the DIVINE CANON, and I am talking about the REAL People of God, and not the unbelieving Jews who still doubted what the Canon is even after the Lord came!

Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Bible 1963 ) “Even in the second century of the Christian era the Jewish rabbis were not fully agreed on the Canonicity of certain books (e.g. Cant, Eccl; cfr. Also 4, Esd 14,44ff).”

(The Encyclopedia of Judaism, vol 15 page 117)" says that the limit of the third part (Writings) was not finalized until mid of second century. In addition, the Hebrew Canon was also not accepted by Ethiopian Jews who accept Septuagint to this day "

(Dictionary of Biblical Literacy 1986. p.321)“Precisely when Jewish leadership officially adopted the traditional 39 books of the so-called “Hebrew Canon” is not known; nor is there agreement as to exactly what criteria were used in determining the Canon.”

There was no official canon at the time of Christ, even Jewish sources attest to that.

 

[Psalm45_9]

Continuing solely by his grace!

YAQUBOS:

And the bad thing is that you are quoting me saying the same thing that I said here right now: "And many Jews deny that Jesus is the Christ! Must we believe that also? ( I say this SUPPOSING that what you say about the Jews is true )

Well if there was no official canon at the time of Christ as many sources show, then we can not rely on them to determine the canon. We have to rely on the true people of God, aka the Church.

YAQUBOS:

Yes! I am talking about the REAL People of God, the REAL Israel, and not those who denied the Lord!

Amen! There was no official canon at the time of Christ, don’t rely on apostates!

YAQUBOS:

And remember that we are talking here about ONE point of that DIVINE CANON! Talking about ONE point doesn’t mean insisting on human authority!

AMEN! And there was no official canon at the time of Christ!

YAQUBOS:

Even if the bishops have that authority, they will exercise it ACCORDING TO THE DIVINE CANON, as we said, and you said AMEN!!!

Which one? There was no official DIVINE CANON at the time of Christ, which is why the Church had to determine which writings are really scripture.

YAQUBOS:

The DIVINE CANON says that it must be accepted by the people of God who heard that when REVEALED!

YAQUBOS:

There was no official divine canon at the time of Christ. The Sadducees saw only the Torah as the Divine Canon, The Pharisees saw a canon similar to the one they use today as the Divine canon. The Alexandrian and Ethiopian Jews had a still larger canon. Right in Israel at the time Christ walked the Earth there was a disgreement between the Saducees and the Pharisees over which writings are the Divine Canon. The church determined which existing writings are scripture.

YAQUBOS:

Not by a people that suddenly appears later and declares to be the people of God! For the Word says:

“For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.”

( 1 Thessalonians 2:13 )

You don’t know your history, Judaism came to Ethiopia through the Queen of Sheba long before Christ walked the Earth. Sheba is an old name for present day Ethiopia.

YAQUBOS:

You can’t have a people of God without the Word of God! So as the REAL people of God didn’t accept those books as DIVINE,

Well now that we understand the real people of God are the ones that accepted Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior this makes more sense. The Ethiopian Eunuch accepted Christ, and his canon was the Alexandrian Canon, So the real people of God had the Divine Canon.

YAQUBOS:

then they do not meet the 5th point of the DIVINE CANON! Or else we must think that there was not a people of God until the Roman Church came!!!

And thanks to the Ethiopian Eunuch, the Dueterocanonicals meet the fifth point.

YAQUBOS:

By the way: did you notice that I said “then they do not meet the 5th point of the DIVINE CANON!”. I didn’t say “then they are not Word of God”. Because we can’t judge everything according to ONE point. The Word of God meets all the points of the Canon, because the Canon is taken FROM IT!!!

The Wisdom of Solomon speaks of Christ, and it was accepted by the Ethiopian Eunuch, baptized a person of God.

 

[Psalm45_9]

Pax Vobis Cvm!

YAQUBOS:

The fact that we read in this quote a contradiction of what Jerome wrote in the preface, shows that something changed later. And I have explained to you what happened even before you ask, but it seems you didn’t pay attention to that… Did you read the following:

Did you read it? Jerome said he accepted the judgment of the Churches. He realized that this is not the works of humans, but the Holy Spirit.

YAQUBOS:

We have shown what happened with Jerome.

Yes, he was obedient to the infallible church.

YAQUBOS:

You talk again about a majority approving of the Roman Canon, thus showing that those books were not accepted by the people of God until the Roman Canon was created! But the DIVINE CANON, unlike the canon of Rome, says that it must be accepted by the REAL People of God.

The people of the Church are the real people of God. They accepted books found in the Canon of the Ethiopian Eunuch, also a person of God.

YAQUBOS:

A doubt on the REAL WORD OF GOD comes AFTER its acceptance by the People of God, and not before

Exactly, you must be speaking of Martin Luther.

YAQUBOS:

Again: you are talking about people doubting some books BEFORE they are accepted!

Some people doubted the gentiles are Christians without circumcison after they were accepted by St. Peter. It took to Holy Spirit working through the Bishops at the council of Jerusalem to determine that a Gentile does not need to be circumcised to be a Christian.

YAQUBOS:

How many times do we have to say that, in the case of the real Word of God, people doubt it AFTER it is accepted by the People of God, as it is the case with Martin Luther who doubted books that were already accepted by the real People of God who first read it!!! This is a point of the DIVINE CANON to which you said AMEN!!!

People doubted that Cornelius was a Christian after he was baptized.

 

[Psalm45_9]

Continuing solely by his grace!

YAQUBOS:

But you didn’t answer my question: "Oh, but if you know how those books talk about them!!! About prayer for the dead, 2 Maccabees 12:45-46 !!! This is an example of humans praying for PAGANS who used to worship idols, so that they may have good resurrection!!!

They weren’t pagans they were Jews first of all. Second, they were supposed to have all of those charms melted, but they kept them for their own selfish reasons, to make money by selling them. For this they were slain, just as Ananias was slain for not giving all his proceeds to the Church in the Acts of the Apostles. However, since Judas did not know where there hearts were at the moment of their death, he prayed for the ones that repented at the last moment.

YAQUBOS:

Oh! Do you believe that we can pray for a pagan who died without believing in God, so that he may have eternal life???

They were Jews, not pagans.

YAQUBOS:

Don’t you believe what the Bible says that TODAY is the Day of Salvation???

Your ignorance is showing. People who are in Purgatory are not going to Hell, they’re going straight to Heaven. They are just being purged of their sins so the can enter, for nothing unclean can enter Heaven. Since God is beyond time, no one know how long a person is there. An eternity to us, could be a second to God. So indeed it is still possible for today to be the day of salvation.

YAQUBOS:

As for the salvation by works, we read it in Tobit 12:9 ( and many other passages of those wrong human writings )!

No one can ever earn his or her way to Heaven by good works this is blasphemous. It is what I told you before; we are saved by God’s grace, which continues through faith with good works. This is what the St. Raphael the Archangel was saying, faith with good works.

YAQUBOS:

They say you can have salvation by your money!!!"

I don’t know where the Deuterocanonicals say that. It is blasphemous, no one can buy their way to Heaven.

YAQUBOS:

Do you believe that we can pray for a pagan who died without believing in God, so that he may have eternal life???

If the Gospel message never reached them, then it is not their fault they are pagan and salvation is possible for them. If you are referring to the soldiers in 2nd Maccabees, they were selfish, not pagans.

 

[Psalm45_9]

Pax Vobis Cvm!

YAQUBOS:

Hey! Didn’t you say AMEN when I said that all DIVINE Books must meet the DIVINE CANON???

As determined by the Church.

YAQUBOS:

Esther meets those standards. Esther doesn’t have to tell you that it is inspired, because it is written in a prophetic era, and it doesn’t deny being written by a prophet or man of God! While Maccabees clearly denies being written by a man of God who has prophetic inspiration! For the inspiration of the Spirit ceased in Israel from the last prophet until the Son of God came!

I don’t see where the Bible says, “In order for a book to be Divine Inspired, it must be written while there is a prophet.”

Just because God the Father is not speaking to men, does not mean the God the Holy Spirit is speaking to men.

O yes: “My son, take your sons; behold, I have grown old and am about to depart this life. Go to Media, my son, for I fully believe what Jonah the prophet said about Nineveh, that it will be overthrown.” (Tobit 14:4)

The book of Tobit was written while Jonah was preaching the destruction of Nineveh.

YAQUBOS:

You say that Maccabees was written by the Holy Spirit, although Maccabees says that it is not written by a prophet ( inspired man of God )!!! Do you imagine that the Holy Spirit wrote it without using a prophet??? How did He write it??? Don’t you know that the DIVINE CANON says that it is a prophet of God who speaks the Word of God, and not any simple human???

Esther is a Prophetess? The author of 1 & 2 Chronicles is a prophet?

YAQUBOS:

Who said that all prophets must write something!

Who said the Apostles had to write everything?

YAQUBOS:

The DIVINE CANON says that the WORD OF GOD is always written by a prophet ( inspired man of God ). This doesn’t mean that all prophets must write something!!!

Just like the Apostles don’t have to write everything.

(The Author of 1 & 2 Chronicles is a prophet?)

 

[Psalm45_9]

Continuing solely by his grace!

YAQUBOS:

The so called Eastern “Orthodox” didn’t declare them officially as Word of God! They just use them as DEUTEROCANONICAL, thus showing that the REAL People of God didn’t accept them as Scripture!

“The Orthodox Christians use the Septuagint (often abbreviated as LXX) as their “official” text of the Old Testament. This is a translation of the Hebrew Old Testament into Greek that was begun in the third century B.C. The Septuagint is about a thousand years older that the oldest complete Hebrew manuscript of the Old Testament, and it is the “text of choice” for quotes from the Old Testament by the New Testament writers. Because of that, it must not be lightly dismissed, as many well-meaning Christians do today. The books of the Old Testament referred to in Western Christianity as the Apocrypha are included in the Septuagint, and the Orthodox Church accepts the books in the Septuagint as Scripture. True, a Jewish council in 95 A.D. rejected these books in question as part of the Old Testament. However, this should have little or no bearing on how the Church sees these books. The Church decides what is Scripture, not any individual, nor any denomination or other religion – not even Judaism.’ (St. Anthony’s Orthodox Christian Church)”

st-anthony.org/apocrypha.htm

‘Looking back over history, there were various “lists” of the canonical “books” comprising the Bible:

• The Muratorian Canon (130 AD) cities all the books we considered as parts of the Bible today, except for Hebrews, Jude, 2 Peter, 2 John, 3 John, and Revelation/Apocalypse
• Canon 60 of the local Council of Laodicea (364 AD) cited Revelation/Apocalypse
• A festal Epistle by Saint Athanasius (369 AD) lists all of them.

Even so, there was no official, authoritative “canon” listing all the books until the Sixth Ecumenical Council, at Constantinople in 680 AD. Canon II of that Council ratifies the First through the Fifth Ecumenical Councils, as well as the local councils at Carthage (255 AD), Ancyra (315 AD), Neocaesaria (315 AD), Gangra (340 AD), Antioch (341 AD), Laodicea (364 A), Sardica (347 AD), Constantinople (394 AD), and Carthage (419 AD).

When the Council at Laodicea specified the content of the bible as we know it - 39 years after the First Ecumenical Council (325 AD) and 17 years before the second Ecumenical Council (381 AD) - the Liturgy was pretty much well-defined and established and had been “canonized” by common usage the reading from these books.’ (c)2000 Father Demetrios Serfes]

serfes.org/orthodox/scripturesinthechurch.htm

There were councils, but non of them are binding, which is why some Orthodox Churches have more books then others. The only council that bound the canon shut is the council of Trent, which the Orthodox do not accept.

YAQUBOS:

Jesus Christ didn’t come to Ethiopia, as we said. And He didn’t blame the Jews OF ISRAEL of adding or taking away from any DIVINE Book!

With the Baptism of the Ethiopian Eunuch, the Gospel and the Holy Spirit came to Ethiopia.