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mainusch
Guest
Please tell me where the list of inspired books is spelled out. No more sidetracks. No more “but first we need to…” Where in scripture is it defined?
Thank you.
Thank you.
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YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
YAQUBOS:
YAQUBOS:
Psalm45:9:
Psalm45:9:
YAQUBOS:
Psalm45:9:
Psalm45:9:
Montanism teaches that revelation didn’t cease with the apostles. And this is what you are declaring here. ARE YOU A MONTANIST?
YAQUBOS:
Who says that what they said is WORD OF GOD?
YAQUBOS:
Psalm45:9:
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Psalm45:9:
Did they know the Holy Spirit, and how? Who defines the Holy Trinity?
Psalm45:9:
How do you know that the apostles in fact said those things?
Psalm45:9:
Who says that God in fact told the apostles anything?
Psalm45:9:
How do you know that the Church Fathers recorded what God says?
Psalm45:9:
How did the Holy Spirit tell you that? On what are you basing your faith?
Psalm45:9:
Who tells you that what HUMANS are telling you today is WORD OF GOD?
Psalm45:9:
The Church said that montanism is a heresy, and thus, Tertullian, who is called “the father of the Latin theology”, is declared heretical because he followed Montanism!
Montanism teaches that revelation didn’t cease with the apostles. And this is what you are declaring here. ARE YOU A MONTANIST?
Psalm45:9:
Who says that the apostles really said these things?
Who says that what they said is WORD OF GOD?
Psalm45:9:
When the Christ told them, how did they know that what He is saying is WORD OF GOD? Did the Church exist to tell them?
Psalm45:9:
This is very far from martyrdom.
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Y
YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
YAQUBOS:
YAQUBOS:
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Psalm45:9:
Psalm45:9:
But the Church didn’t exist in that time to do anything! Didn’t anyone believe in what Jesus said as WORD OF GOD, until the council of Rome?
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Y
YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
YAQUBOS:
Psalm45:9:
Psalm45:9:
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Psalm45:9:
Are the words of the Church Fathers true? And how do you know that?
Psalm45:9:
Who told them about the Holy Spirit?
Psalm45:9:
Who told you that the Fathers were saying the truth?
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Y
YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
Psalm45:9:
By the way: did the Christian Church exist as CHRISTIAN CHURCH before Pentecost and the Baptism of the Spirit?
YAQUBOS:
YAQUBOS:
YAQUBOS:
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Psalm45:9:
Did that Church decide if the words of Jesus are the WORD OF GOD?
By the way: did the Christian Church exist as CHRISTIAN CHURCH before Pentecost and the Baptism of the Spirit?
Psalm45:9:
How do you know THIS is what the apostles told them?
Psalm45:9:
What authority does the dictionary have?
Psalm45:9:
How did the Church know the Holy Spirit?
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Y
YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
mainusch:
When you ask about the Scripture, you suppose that it is the Word of God. Do you know what the Word of God is?
In Love,
Yaqubos†
When someone asks a question, we must first see if he understands what he is asking.
When you ask about the Scripture, you suppose that it is the Word of God. Do you know what the Word of God is?
In Love,
Yaqubos†
Y
YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
As we see: CIRCULAR THINKING!
Do you know why? Because faith in WHAT GOD SAYS is lacking, and people want to believe humans rather than God.
Let’s stop this circular thinking. I asked about the WORD OF GOD. Let me ask the question in another way:
WHY DID THE CHURCH NEED TO HAVE A BIBLE? WHY DID THE CHURCH NEED TO HAVE A CANON FOR THE BIBLE?
If there is an infallible tradition in the Church, then why did the Church need a book? What is the importance of the Bible?
In Love,
Yaqubos†
As we see: CIRCULAR THINKING!
Do you know why? Because faith in WHAT GOD SAYS is lacking, and people want to believe humans rather than God.
Let’s stop this circular thinking. I asked about the WORD OF GOD. Let me ask the question in another way:
WHY DID THE CHURCH NEED TO HAVE A BIBLE? WHY DID THE CHURCH NEED TO HAVE A CANON FOR THE BIBLE?
If there is an infallible tradition in the Church, then why did the Church need a book? What is the importance of the Bible?
In Love,
Yaqubos†
P
Psalm45_9
Guest
The Holy Trinity is a mystery, all we know is that it is the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. Through the graces of God, the church knows that Jesus is God. The council of Nicea condmned Arianism, only the church can determine hereseys, like Sola Scriptura.
Becuase the Church Fathers attest to it.
The Church Fathers say so.
Becuase there teachings are the teachings of the apostles, who were taught by Christ himself.
The Gospel of Christ, as it was preached by the Apostles and the Church Fathers.
Jesus, the Church Fathers attest through faith in what the Apostles taught to them, that whatever the Bishops bind, shall be bound.
P
Psalm45_9
Guest
Montanism teaches that revelation didn’t cease with the apostles. And this is what you are declaring here. ARE YOU A MONTANIST?
The Terminology was difficult for me to understand. Yes, indeed Divine Revelation has ended, the terminology was confusing to me. Only the Church can determine a heresy, like Sola Scriptura. Here is what the Church says:
“Christ the Lord, in whom the entire Revelation of the most high God is summed up, commanded the apostles to preach the Gospel, which had been promised beforehand by the prophets, and which he fulfilled in his own person and promulgated with his own lips. In preaching the Gospel, they were to communicate the gifts of God to all men. This Gospel was to be the source of all saving truth and moral discipline.”
**In the apostolic preaching. . . **
In keeping with the Lord’s command, the Gospel was handed on in two ways:
- orally “by the apostles who handed on, by the spoken word of their preaching, by the example they gave, by the institutions they established, what they themselves had received - whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or whether they had learned it at the prompting of the Holy Spirit”;
- in writing “by those apostles and other men associated with the apostles who, under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit, committed the message of salvation to writing”.
“In order that the full and living Gospel might always be preserved in the Church the apostles left bishops as their successors. They gave them their own position of teaching authority.” Indeed, “the apostolic preaching, which is expressed in a special way in the inspired books, was to be preserved in a continuous line of succession until the end of time.”
This living transmission, accomplished in the Holy Spirit, is called Tradition, since it is distinct from Sacred Scripture, though closely connected to it. Through Tradition, “the Church, in her doctrine, life and worship, perpetuates and transmits to every generation all that she herself is, all that she believes.” “The sayings of the holy Fathers are a witness to the life-giving presence of this Tradition, showing how its riches are poured out in the practice and life of the Church, in her belief and her prayer.”
The Father’s self-communication made through his Word in the Holy Spirit, remains present and active in the Church: “God, who spoke in the past, continues to converse with the Spouse of his beloved Son. And the Holy Spirit, through whom the living voice of the Gospel rings out in the Church - and through her in the world - leads believers to the full truth, and makes the Word of Christ dwell in them in all its richness.” (CCC Part 1, Article 2, 75-79)
Thank you for showing my mistake. Divine Revelation has ceased, but presenting that Revelation has not. Which is what I was trying to say, but I did not understand the terminology, I do now, thank you very much!
P
Psalm45_9
Guest
The Church Fathers.
1 + 1=2; Jesus=God; Jesus’ oral teachings=Word of God; Apostles preach Jesus’ teachings=Word of God is what the apostles say.
St. Peter confessed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living Gods, as the Church Fathers attest. Christ told the Apostles (who are the bishops) whatever they bind shall be bound in Heaven, as the Church Fathers attest. The Church is the communion of Faith; with Peter’s confession it was born. Did the New Testament exist? Given the information from Jewish sources, the Old Testament was not defined at that time either.
Martyr:
*]One who chooses to suffer death rather than renounce religious principles.
*]**One who makes great sacrifices or suffers much in order to further a belief, cause, or principle. **
*]One who endures great suffering: a martyr to arthritis.
*]One who makes a great show of suffering in order to arouse sympathy.
A person does not have to shed blood to be a martyr.
P
Psalm45_9
Guest
Yes, the Church Fathers!
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Psalm45_9
Guest
Jesus told his apostles manythings, they preached them. Jesus gave authority to his apostles to bind and loose things. This they preached to the Fathers, this is what the Fathers preached. It is called faith, now that you know I have faith, then your mission has been a success.
P
Psalm45_9
Guest
No Jesus preached it to them in person. The Apostle preached it to the Fathers in person, The Fathers preached it to all nations in person. Did Jesus open his Bible and have the apostles read it?
Well St. John the Baptist recieved the Spirit before his birth, St. Mary and St. Elizabeth recieved the Spirit also before Pentecost. This is bapstim of desire. On the evening of Easter Sunday, Christ breathed the Spirit upon his apostles. On Pentecost, the Spirit descended upon the rest of the communion of faith. And So the communion of Faith had been around for awhile. On Pentecost it expanded.
The Church Fathers told the next generation this. We still have the Fathers’ writings today to attest to what the apostles preached.
You asked what a church was, I looked it up, take it or leave it.
Christ told the Church at his ascension to anticipate its coming. The Church knew the Holy Spirit, because it came straight from the mouth of Christ, who is God. As the Church Fathers attest.
P
Psalm45_9
Guest
God’s Revelation to Humanity. Which is the Written and Oral teachings of the Apostles, who were taught by Christ (who is God) himself.
P
Psalm45_9
Guest
Exactly, the Early Christians did not have a Bible.
No, I believe in God’s word, as it came from the mouths of the Apostles. Now you’re saying that Jesus is not the Incarnation?
In order to end the Hereseys the plauged the early church. It was still up in the air what was scripture then. Gnostics had their heretical Gospels like the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Phlip. Which claimed to be the teachings of the Apostles. Who could tell what the Apostles preached? The Men who were taught by the Apostles themselves and so the oral word found the written word. The Fathers gathered, they analyzed what they were taught by the apostles in light of what all these texts said. If a text went against what they were taught, they determined it did not belong to the Canon. This was not an easy undertaking, especially since certain areas had been reading texts like the Shepard of Hermas and the Apocalypse of Peter and calling them scripture. Through the work of the Holy Spirit, in light of Apostolic Tradition, it was determined which texts were compleatly false. However the bible is silent on issues, such as abortion, which the early church rejected, and so the Church still needed the Oral Word in order to interpret the Written Word.
In order to maintain that infalliable tradition from those who liked to write and preach lies in order to attach the Apostolic Tradition of the Church. There have been no councils saying that The Bible is all that we need. The Gnostics did not prevail against the infalliable church, just like Christ said nothing would.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Not very much…in fact only a very few apostles penned anything in the NT.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
You make posts that do not lead to edifying discussions, & it seems like you just want to imply that you have some great theology that we are all just dying to hear. I’ve heard Prot preachers do this before…usually to esspouse something that is way outside of the context of any Christian doctrine.
Next you’ll be tellin’ us that you’re from Shepherd’s Chapel and wantin’ us to believe that the original sin was Eve having sex w/ the snake.
I bet you’re a mess in your witnessing in person. No one enjoys games like this, so You get the dubious honor of bein’ my very first “ignore” here.
L
Luke1_48
Guest
Church Militant:
DITTO!!!
DITTO!!!
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steve_b
Guest
That’s true, particularly for those people who follow those who’ve divided from the one true Church, the pillar and foundation of truth that Jesus builds on Peter.
Jesus gave His Apostles authority. And apostles passed this authority onto their successors. People who didn’t listen to the apostles, the apostles shook the dust off their shoes at them. If people don’t believe the ones God put in position of authority, and that includes the ones today in apostolic succession, then so be it. They will have to answer for that.
The question was answered many times.
- God instructed that certain things were to be written down. St John for one, was told to write down what he saw when he wrote Revelations
- Paul commends those who follow the traditions he taught, both written and oral. Both were equally authoritative.
It’s a yard stick.
Heretics wrote competing writings to the apostles. Many other writings were circulating at the time claiming to be scripture. There were hundreds of writings in fact. To keep the faithful from being contaminated by false writings, it was essential for the Church to identify inspired writings from ones that weren’t. The Church identified 73 writings (books).
As scripture says, scripture is profitable for instruction in doing good
training, and instructing people in doing good.
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mayra_hart
Guest
historically: the bible is a catholic book. the new testament was written, copied, and collected by catholic christians. the official canon of the books of the bible was authoritatively determined by the catholic church in the fourth cantury. thus it is from the catholic church that the protestants have a bible at all. logically: the church with the authority to determine the infallible word of god, must have the infallible authority and guidance of the holy spirit. as we have seen,apart from the declarations of the catholic church, we have absolutely NO guarantee that what is in the bible is the GENUINE WORD OF GOD. to trust the bible is to trust the authority of the church which guarantees the bible. it is contradictory for protestants to accept the bible and yet reject the authority of the catholic church that gave it to them. logically, protestants should not quote the bible as authoritative, for they have no way to determining wh**ich books are inspired---- unless, of course, they accept the teaching authority of the catholic church.
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