Bishop calls for new AIDS theology

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contemplative said:
South Africa to have gay weddings

South Africa’s highest court has ruled in favour of same-sex marriages, which are banned under current legislation.

The Constitutional Court ordered that parliament amend marriage laws to allow gay weddings within a year. The constitution outlaws discrimination against gays and lesbians, but social attitudes remain more conservative. The court ordered that the definition of marriage be changed from a “union between a man and a woman” to a “union between two persons”.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4487756.stm

:hmmm: and this is going to help the AIDS situation?
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unbelievable … to have this announcement to the world from the Vatican on the heels of the legalization of gay marriages in S. Africa…
H. E. Javier Cardinal Lozano Barragan message For The World Day Against Aids
The third pathway of infection – sexual transmission – still remains the most important. This is greatly fostered by a kind of pansexual culture that devalues sexuality, reducing it to mere pleasure without any further meaning. Radical prevention in this field must come from a correct conception and practice of sexuality, where sexual activity is understood in its deep meaning as a total and absolute expression of the fecund giving of love. This totality leads us to the exclusiveness of its exercise in marriage, which is unique and indissoluble. Secure prevention in this field thus lies in the intensification of the solidity of the family.
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unbelievable … to have this announcement to the world from the Vatican on the heels of the legalization of gay marriages in S. Africa…
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Perhaps it is even more unbeliveable that this announcement is released on World Aids Day? :eek:
 
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Libero:
Perhaps it is even more unbeliveable that this announcement is released on World Aids Day? :eek:
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Libero,
Take it any way you like it.
The Truth will not be supressed.
Contemplative
 
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fix:
Another scientist published findings that confirmed that “the greater the percentage of Catholics in any country, the lower the level of HIV.”
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This is simply untrue. Well, it may be true that it was published, but the correlation between Catholicism and lower AIDS is a lie. I’ll refer you to post #70 rather than hoe this row again.

Nohome
 
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Nohome:
This is simply untrue. Well, it may be true that it was published, but the correlation between Catholicism and lower AIDS is a lie. I’ll refer you to post #70 rather than hoe this row again.
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In addition, it could be noted that Haiti is 80% Catholic and has the highest HIV infection rate in the western hemisphere (6.3%).

Recently, NPR ran a news story about Bishop Dowling and visited his clinic. Listening to the story (its less than 7 minutes long) might put the Bishop’s stance into perspective. e.g. nearly half of pregnant women at his clinic are HIV positive.
npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5032190
 
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contemplative:
I usually won’t give NPR the time of day. This moment is not the exception.
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I read/listen to many news outlets, including those biased by politics that are not my own. I read what the Vatican publishes and I’m not even Catholic. Listening to those with whom you disagree allows for dialog.

“Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it”
-Andre Gide(1869 - 1951)

Nohome
 
**H. E. JAVIER CARDINAL LOZANO BARRAGAN

MESSAGE FOR THE WORLD DAY AGAINST AIDS - December 01, 2005

FULL TEXT HERE
The third pathway of infection – sexual transmission – still remains the most important. This is greatly fostered by a kind of pansexual culture that devalues sexuality, reducing it to mere pleasure without any further meaning. Radical prevention in this field must come from a correct conception and practice of sexuality, where sexual activity is understood in its deep meaning as a total and absolute expression of the fecund giving of love. This totality leads us to the exclusiveness of its exercise in marriage, which is unique and indissoluble. Secure prevention in this field thus lies in the intensification of the solidity of the family.
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**
 
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Nohome:
O.K., you already posted this previously. Were you going to elaborate?
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😃

Looks like the discussion on this thread is over. The Vatican has spoken. The bishops won’t be discussing any new AIDS theology in the near future. Done deal.

**H. E. JAVIER CARDINAL LOZANO BARRAGAN

MESSAGE FOR THE WORLD DAY AGAINST AIDS - December 01, 2005

**FULL TEXT HERE
 
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Libero:
Actually latest statistics show that the rate of heterosexuals acquiring AIDS has now overtaken those of homosexuals greatly.

The opinion that AIDS is specially homosexual is old and out of date.
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But as a percentage, hetero spread of AIDS must be much lower than homosexual spread of AIDS.
 
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contemplative:
Looks like the discussion on this thread is over. The Vatican has spoken. The bishops won’t be discussing any new AIDS theology in the near future. Done deal.
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Discussion? There never was a Catholic discussion. The Church says no condoms, but the World Health Organization, countless aid organizations and the governments of basically all African countries have and will continue to ignore Rome.

So everyone is happy, the Catholics may pat themselves on the back for having the “Truth”, and Africa will get the much needed condoms.

Well, on to the next subject.

Nohome
 
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Nohome:
So everyone is happy, the Catholics may pat themselves on the back for having the “Truth”, and Africa will get the much needed condoms.
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It’s really not the Church’s place to tell people exactly how to safely sin once they have exercised their free will to do so.

There are plenty of people around to do that.

The Church does, however, provide care for great numbers of people who have rejected her teaching, become infected, and have nowhere else to turn. The Church also provides care for great numbers of non-Christians.

I wonder how many condom distributers do that for users that condoms failed to “protect”?
 
mark a:
But as a percentage, hetero spread of AIDS must be much lower than homosexual spread of AIDS.
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Actually, no. The sub-type of HIV that has been predominant in North America and Europe seems to be more difficult to transmit heterosexually. But 2/3s of HIV infections are in sub-Saharan Africa and the subtypes of HIV there are more readily transmitted through heterosexual means.
 
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Nohome:
This is simply untrue. Well, it may be true that it was published, but the correlation between Catholicism and lower AIDS is a lie. I’ll refer you to post #70 rather than hoe this row again.

Nohome
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I posted the news item. They did not give a reference. In the end it really is not the issue. The Church was founded to save souls.
 
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Nohome:
My point was that high % of Catholics in Africa does not mean low infections rates. Often it is quite opposite of that. The literacy issue was simply a positive correlation, more than what can be said about Catholicism vs. infection rates.
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But you have already said that you value chastity as at least part of the solution. So instead of fighting against Catholics who are fighting against AIDS, why don’t you:

1 - Let the Catholic Church in Africa continue to convince people of the value of chastity (100% prevention rate) and that they should practice it.

2 - Let the Catholic Church continue to care for and feed the sick and the dying, and those who reject Her teachings.

3 - Do all you can to hand out condoms if you really think that will help.**

** but keep an open mind - someday you might see some real-life situations (as I have) where people become infected BECAUSE OF condoms! You say you have seen the devastation of AIDS. I sympathize with you, because I have seen the devastation here in the US, in the gay subculture, which I lived in for some 15 years before my reversion to Catholicism. It is heartbreaking. But what I saw was that sometimes condoms actually SPREAD more AIDS because the user believes he/she is 100% protected and as a result decides to have many more sexual encounters than he/she otherwise would have. The result is that the 85% effectiveness rate of the condom (3 failures for every 20 uses - a sort of russian roulette) is the statistic that ends up causing his/her AIDS infection and death, DESPITE HAVING USED THE CONDOM.
 
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urban-hermit:
But you have already said that you value chastity as at least part of the solution. So instead of fighting against Catholics who are fighting against AIDS, why don’t you:

1 - Let the Catholic Church in Africa continue to convince people of the value of chastity (100% prevention rate) and that they should practice it.

2 - Let the Catholic Church continue to care for and feed the sick and the dying, and those who reject Her teachings.

3 - Do all you can to hand out condoms if you really think that will help.
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O.K., but if you go all the way back to the start of this thread, you will see we were originally talking about married people using condoms to prevent the tranmission of AIDS.
However, Dowling argued that abstinence in marriage should be reconsidered “in a diocese full of desperately poor women with few options beyond prostitution to feed their children.”
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I’ll let the RCC do what she see’s fit and I expect her to let others do the same.
 
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