Bishop calls for new AIDS theology

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One thing they don’t realize is that condoms fail. Also, if you have AIDs, are you really going to be so selfish that you must have sex even if that means risking passing this deadly disease on to your spouse??? :banghead:
 
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contemplative:
What?!?:whacky:
In the time it takes to teach many the use of condoms and distribute condoms … the Word of God could be preached to just as many to save souls for eternal life.
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Thanks for fighting the good fight Nohome. Life is good in the Christian tradition. Keeping people alive is better than watching them die from a preventable disease. Preaching to corpses is a waste of breath.

People willing, for their version of their faith, to let Africans die are not heros. In fact, they are the opposite. Perhaps these folks are ignorant about the spread of AIDS in Africa. Women usually cannot say no to unprotected sex:

Many women don’t know their rights in Africa. Very few women can say no to a man, especially when you come to poor communities like ours here. One hundred percent of the women depend on men for survival," says Francis Mbaziira, executive director of Kamwokya Christian Caring Community (KCCC): a faith-based group which is receiving PEPFAR money indirectly, through a grant given to the U.S.-based Catholic Relief Services.

ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=23879

Ancient Christian martyrs did not grab innocent women and shove them at the Roman soldiers saying “Die for my faith.” Why should modern Christians be doing to the same?
 
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Nohome:
Because a young girl can get money to buy her daily bread by getting paid to have sex. She doesn’t want to have sex, but her more basic need, avoiding starvation, trumps the possibility of getting AIDS. You think I’m making this up? It happens every single day, right now, as you read this.

Nohome
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Actually, I am unsure how often this happens. Do you have any statistics to prove this claim? I don’t doubt that it happens. I simply question it happening on the magnitude that you suggest. You may be mixing in forced prostitution and slavery - which is certainly a terrible tragedy (which I never hear the US Bishops talk about). In these cases, I don’t think they have much choice regarding means to control AIDS.

In any event, in the situation you describe, it is not the sexual relations that are providing the basic need. The relations are being used as a means to end. Could an unemployed man with no education and no health benefits and 3 children take on a job as a bouncer at a strip club to meet his basic needs?

Secondly, would AIDS go away if all abusers of women simply used condoms? Is this the crux of the issue? If so, where are all the calls by Bishops to for young women to no longer be abused in this fasion?
 
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MikeinSD:
Many women don’t know their rights in Africa. Very few women can say no to a man, especially when you come to poor communities like ours here. One hundred percent of the women depend on men for survival," says Francis Mbaziira, executive director of Kamwokya Christian Caring Community (KCCC): a faith-based group which is receiving PEPFAR money indirectly, through a grant given to the U.S.-based Catholic Relief Services.
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Exactly…no woman is going to get a man to use a condom in order to help save her life or his for that matter…the man really does not care. Time, effort and money should be poured into educating women of their rights …and educating them to be independent emotionally and finacially.
 
You missed part of my quote:

"People willing, for their version of their faith, to let Africans die are not heros. In fact, they are the opposite…

Ancient Christian martyrs did not grab innocent women and shove them at the Roman soldiers saying “Die for my faith.” Why should modern Christians be doing to the same?"

Until traditional Ugandan culture can be changed, I suggest we encourage the native ABC program – (abstinence, be faithful (in marriage) and condoms)

usaid.gov/our_work/globa…cfactsheet.html

This program reduced rates of HIV infections. It keeps down the body count. I believe that is what the Bishop Kevin Dowling is saying. Also, willingness to watch other people die for your version of your faith is evil.
 
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MikeinSD:
You missed part of my quote:

"People willing, for their version of their faith, to let Africans die are not heros. In fact, they are the opposite…
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People…People of Faith are taking giant risks with their own bodies to help Africans.
People…People of Faith/Catholics are donating 1/4 of all the money used to help HIV/AIDS victims around the world.
People…People like you are biting the hands that help.
http://photobucket.com/albums/y188/ginnyroc/th_dog_bite.gif
 
“People…People like you are biting the hands that help”

I tithe to HIV prevention agencies under the United Way. To give 10% of one’s income to charity is bibically correct. I assume all good Christians do this.

To refuse to help other people in danger of dying from an infectious disease is evil.

To demand that people, not sharing your faith, suffer and die from an infectious disease because you don’t like the method of prevention, is evil.

To increase the number of AIDS victims in the name of God is evil.

Shame on you.
 
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MikeinSD:
To refuse to help other people in danger of dying from an infectious disease is evil.

To demand that people, not sharing your faith, suffer and die from an infectious disease because you don’t like the method of prevention, is evil.

To increase the number of AIDS victims in the name of God is evil.
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Well, since the Catholic Church does none of those things…

http://home.houston.rr.com/mchance3/rolleyes.gif

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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Nohome:
In Africa, you would find that AIDS is transmitted by poverty, hunger, indentured servatude, rape, witchcraft and illiteracy. Indiscriminate sex is not the same as in the West, but I don’t expect anyone here to understand.

Nohome
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How dare you? How dare you come on here and patronise people like that, acting as if people who disagree with you simply dont know what they are talking about?

Let me ask you this then, when most of the African countries are under the control of enormous condom programmes and haved been for years and years, how come then that apart from the countries that have significant Catholic populations, AIDS has rocketed?

And this is true not just in Africa but all over the world. Im from Britain, and in this country condoms are everywhere - im at university and in the first week im given so many condoms theyre falling out of my ears. Condoms are everywhere in britain, and yet the HIV rate is flying through the roof more and more.

You keep telling us all how ignorant we are, open your eyes THEY DONT WORK - ANYWHERE!!! They dont work in the West[im sure even you wouldnt disagree with that] and time has shown that despite the trillions of dollars thrown at Africas condom policies, the HIV rate has not stopped growing.

But of course, Swazilands 42.6% HIV rate and Botswanas 37% HIV rate, thats due to the evil catholic church isnt it, despite them having less than 5% of a Catholic population each.

Oh and Uganda, has a 43% Catholic population there, and the HIV rate??? 4%
 
Adam S:
But of course, Swazilands 42.6% HIV rate and Botswanas 37% HIV rate, thats due to the evil catholic church isnt it, despite them having less than 5% of a Catholic population each.

Oh and Uganda, has a 43% Catholic population there, and the HIV rate??? 4%
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I assume the source of your information is this story:

zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=77051

When I read this on a previous condom thread, I looked up the data for myself. The author simply took two examples that fit her purpose and put them together as proof that Catholic values are preventing AIDS in Africa.

I compared the percentage of Catholics in all African nations against the adult incidence rate of AIDS. This is exactly what the author you quoted did, but here is what was left out:

Lesotho, 70% Catholic, 28.9% AIDS infection rate
Niger, 0.10% Catholic, 1.3% AIDS infection rate

I could list many more examples, but this is enough to make the point. There is no correlation between the Catholic population in Africa and in infection rate of AIDS. The virus follows people and poverty, not religion

I did discover, quite by accident, that there is a very positive correlation between low AIDS infection and literacy. I’ve provided the rates for the nations mentioned thus far.

Uganda, 33%
Swaziland, 20%
Botswana, 21%
Lesotho, 17%
Niger, 84%

So perhaps the “evil Catholic Church” (your words, not mine) that refuses to acknowledge that condoms do indeed control the spread of AIDS should teach these people how to read so they can learn how to save themselves from this virus.

Nohome
 
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Nohome:
So perhaps the “evil Catholic Church” (your words, not mine) that refuses to acknowledge that condoms do indeed control the spread of AIDS should teach these people how to read so they can learn how to save themselves from this virus.

Nohome
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The Church does help in educational ways. The real issue is behavior. Stop illicit behavior and AIDS will dramatically decline. The Church was founded for the salvation of souls, She was not founded to lead souls away from Christ.
 
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fix:
The Church does help in educational ways. The real issue is behavior. Stop illicit behavior and AIDS will dramatically decline. The Church was founded for the salvation of souls, She was not founded to lead souls away from Christ.
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Excellent point.
 
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fix:
The real issue is behavior. Stop illicit behavior and AIDS will dramatically decline.
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I agree, in situations where people have a choice. The situation in Africa is far more complicated.
 
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Nohome:
I agree, in situations where people have a choice. The situation in Africa is far more complicated.
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If it is that complicated, how will a latex sheath help?
 
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Nohome:
I did discover, quite by accident, that there is a very positive correlation between low AIDS infection and literacy. I’ve provided the rates for the nations mentioned thus far.

Uganda, 33%
Swaziland, 20%
Botswana, 21%
Lesotho, 17%
Niger, 84%

So perhaps the “evil Catholic Church” (your words, not mine) that refuses to acknowledge that condoms do indeed control the spread of AIDS should teach these people how to read so they can learn how to save themselves from this virus.
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Unsupported leap from the correlation between literacy and infection rates to people need to be taught how to read condom instructions. To demonstrate your point, you need to show that literacy requirements for condom instructions are subpar in high infection regions.

IOW: http://home.houston.rr.com/mchance3/rolleyes.gif

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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mlchance:
Unsupported leap from the correlation between literacy and infection rates to people need to be taught how to read condom instructions. To demonstrate your point, you need to show that literacy requirements for condom instructions are subpar in high infection regions.

IOW: http://home.houston.rr.com/mchance3/rolleyes.gif

– Mark L. Chance.
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My point was that high % of Catholics in Africa does not mean low infections rates. Often it is quite opposite of that. The literacy issue was simply a positive correlation, more than what can be said about Catholicism vs. infection rates.
 
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Nohome:
By controlling the spread of the virus.
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The whole point is that promotion of condoms does not contain the virus - it increases the spread of it.

All of your concerns about how the disease is spread are important and should be controlled and worked to eliminate. (rape, prostitution, drugs, needles, cults etc.) Promiscuity and false sense of security via condomns should be included in the list of what you are against if you truly want to stop AIDS.
 
MikeinSD said:
“People…People like you are biting the hands that help”

I tithe to HIV prevention agencies under the United Way. To give 10% of one’s income to charity is bibically correct. I assume all good Christians do this.

To refuse to help other people in danger of dying from an infectious disease is evil.

To demand that people, not sharing your faith, suffer and die from an infectious disease because you don’t like the method of prevention, is evil.

To increase the number of AIDS victims in the name of God is evil.

Shame on you.
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Oh my goodness!!! Never have I seen so many mis-informed posters who know nothing about HIV. This is **evil **in the worse way. I am sickened.
 
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