Bishop calls for new AIDS theology

[Nohome]

contemplative:

Your argument is biased and slanted.
What if your USAID program omitted the ‘C’ from ‘ABC’?
What would you have?

A miserable failure.

Excerpts from :

medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=20349

Uganda’s Decline in HIV/AIDS Prevalence Attributed to Increased Condom Use, Early Death From AIDS, Study Says

The study’s findings suggest that Uganda’s “much-lauded success” in reducing its HIV prevalence has “little to do with” the abstinence and monogamy programs emphasized by the Bush administration under the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, Reuters reports (Fox, Reuters, 2/24)

ElizabethAnne:

Your question, “Can anyone reference an abstinence only program that has successfully controlled AIDS?” is extremely narrow. Has there been any place where condom use has successfully controlled AIDS?

Looks like I killed two birds with one stone !

Nohome

 

[contemplative]

Nohome:

A miserable failure.

Excerpts from :

medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=20349

Uganda’s Decline in HIV/AIDS Prevalence Attributed to Increased Condom Use, Early Death From AIDS, Study Says

The study’s findings suggest that Uganda’s “much-lauded success” in reducing its HIV prevalence has “little to do with” the abstinence and monogamy programs emphasized by the Bush administration under the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, Reuters reports (Fox, Reuters, 2/24)

Increased condom use and premature deaths from AIDS-related diseases might be playing more of a role in declining HIV prevalence in Uganda than abstinence and fidelity

’Might be’ are the keywords here. I am inclined to believe that any measurable change and reduction of AIDS is due more to AIDS awareness thus fear of contracting AIDS than to the use of condoms. It is far too early in the game to accurately measure the ‘hows’ and ‘whys’ for any changes or reduction in AIDS. It will take years to really sort out and figure out the actual ugly path of AIDS.
In the meantime you will likely continue to imagine that the little rubber condom is what stops the spread of AIDS.
Throwing condoms at the problem of AIDS does not help but will actually and ultimately feed the 'sexual promiscuity is OK ’ mentality.

 

[MikeinSD]

Asking that someone else die for an aspect your faith is evil. As if the Christian martyrs of Roman Empire grabbed innocent pagans and pushed them into the swords of the soldiers to die In Jesus’s name. The martyrs died for their faith. They did not demand that someone else take their place.

Enforcing traditional Catholic doctrine about birth control at the expense of Ugandian lives is evil. Exposing women to a lethal virus when there are easily available preventive measures is evil.

I don’t understand the ethics of some Christians putting at risk other people, including non believers, to die for a varient of belief that most Christians do not follow.

AIDS is a nasty way to die. People die from repeated infections as their immune system declines. People waste away to skeletons over a few years without treatment. And some Christians want to deny women and men a means of avoiding infection. And they are saying they are doing in in their God’s name.

I know follks will disagree. So all I can say is move to Uganda and don’t use condoms. Put yourself on the front lines. Don’t watch other people die and praise yourself for not giving them a way to survive.

Shame on you.

 

[MikeinSD]

I thought I was being over the top in my response. Upon further reflection, I think I am accurate. I watched friends die of AIDS. To think that withholding condoms to stop transmitting this disease is God’s will is so wrong I can’t (in charity) give my real unfettered opinion.

 

[palmas85]

Correct me if I am wrong, but in most cases AIDS is spread through indiscriminate sexual contacts. While I feel sorry for those infected unintentionally by their partners, and I believe those to be the exception rather than the rule, not engaging in indiscriminate sexual activity would stop the spread of most cases of the disease.

Of course that would require some responsibility on the part of everyone involved.

 

[contemplative]

MikeinSD:

I thought I was being over the top in my response. Upon further reflection, I think I am accurate. I watched friends die of AIDS. To think that withholding condoms to stop transmitting this disease is God’s will is so wrong I can’t (in charity) give my real unfettered opinion.

Overtop?
Try inside out and upside down.
There is a greater lesson you need to learn by watching your friends die of AIDS.
You need to ask God to help you get inside real love and right side up in your Catholic Faith. He will answer you. Just ask Him…pray.
Twenty-some years ago …before I married my DH…we both took blood tests to be sure we were both healthy and free from STDs for each other…when we discovered what we already knew ( clean bill of health )…we were married and free to have sexual relations. This simple blood test is good to be certain of health.
The best thing Africans and all people to do is just get tested before having marital sex. Skip the condoms…get educated…abstain from sex till marriage…get test for STDs. Morally it is the only right thing to do.
Palma85:

Correct me if I am wrong, but in most cases AIDS is spread through indiscriminate sexual contacts. While I feel sorry for those infected unintentionally by their partners, and I believe those to be the exception rather than the rule, not engaging in indiscriminate sexual activity would stop the spread of most cases of the disease.

Of course that would require some responsibility on the part of everyone involved.

You are correct.

 

[Nohome]

palmas85:

Correct me if I am wrong, but in most cases AIDS is spread through indiscriminate sexual contacts. While I feel sorry for those infected unintentionally by their partners, and I believe those to be the exception rather than the rule, not engaging in indiscriminate sexual activity would stop the spread of most cases of the disease.

Of course that would require some responsibility on the part of everyone involved.

In Africa, you would find that AIDS is transmitted by poverty, hunger, indentured servatude, rape, witchcraft and illiteracy. Indiscriminate sex is not the same as in the West, but I don’t expect anyone here to understand.

On the other hand, you now have two Catholic Cardinals, in Africa, who have seen what is going on. They have said the Church should rethink its stand on condoms. They didn’t say you personally have to use one, even though most in the West have, they just said things are unique in Africa.

MikeinSD is right. Until you are ready to live side by side these people in hunger and oppression, imposing you religious will on Africa is appalling.

Nohome

 

[Nohome]

“Might be” are the keywords here.

Don’t be ridiculous, science rarely speaks in absolutes, that is why religious zelots have such difficulty understanding it

contemplative:

It is far too early in the game to accurately measure the ‘hows’ and ‘whys’ for any changes or reduction in AIDS. It will take years to really sort out and figure out the actual ugly path of AIDS.

Hello? We’ve been fighting AIDS for 20+ years! Most other viral outbreaks have been contained in 5 to 7 years and most health experts expected the same with AIDS. While the Church tries to win a moral battle, humanity is losing millions of people.

contemplative:

In the meantime you will likely continue to imagine that the little rubber condom is what stops the spread of AIDS.

No, I never said that. I’ve just said that condoms are PART of the strategy to control AIDS while science works toward a cure. I also think is it shameful for the Church to impose its will on the people of Africa.

contemplative:

Throwing condoms at the problem of AIDS does not help but will actually and ultimately feed the 'sexual promiscuity is OK ’ mentality.

This is your opinion, though you have no proof. As I’ve said before, sexual promiscuity has been around since the dawn of time. Need I remind you of the sex scandal within your own Church?

Nohome

 

[contemplative]

Nohome:

On the other hand, you now have two Catholic Cardinals, in Africa, who have seen what is going on. They have said the Church should rethink its stand on condoms. Nohome

Don’t hold your breath. We all know that the Church won’t budge any time soon for even a couple of African Cardinals who are feeling sore for the hoards.
In the meantime while you are waiting for any changes you might reread the posts in this thread and continue to ask God to help you understand what has been layed before you and all of the world. You will find the answer is not in a little piece of rubber but rather in doing God’s will.

 

[fix]

MikeinSD:

Asking that someone else die for an aspect your faith is evil. .

It is not simply a matter of faith as if it were some arbitrary, imagined, thing. These are issues of the natural law, charity and salvation of souls.

It is perplexing to me we see such issues as if it simply is a matter of giving antibitocs to one who has an infection. This terrible affliction is mostly spread through behavior that is demeaning to our nature and the solution is not condoms, but wide spread changes in our understaning of what we are made for.

All the condoms on the planet will not make sin, virtue or save immortal souls, or bring authentic happiness.

 

[soccerDad]

Nohome:

In Africa, you would find that AIDS is transmitted by poverty, hunger, indentured servatude, rape, witchcraft and illiteracy. Indiscriminate sex is not the same as in the West, but I don’t expect anyone here to understand.

This is hilarious. Aids from poverty, hunger? Rediculous. It seems people will go to any length to make excuses for sexual lifestyles, West, East, or any other variety. But then, nothing we say matters, because we don’t live in an aids hospice for illiterate starving indentured raped prostitutes in africa, so we couldn’t possibly understand.

 

[Franze]

Until we understand that the unique solution to end with AIDS is abstinence, being faithful and leaving from drugs, we are going bad. Very bad

 

[Nohome]

contemplative:

Don’t hold your breath. We all know that the Church won’t budge any time soon for even a couple of African Cardinals who are feeling sore for the hoards.
In the meantime while you are waiting for any changes you might reread the posts in this thread and continue to ask God to help you understand what has been layed before you and all of the world. You will find the answer is not in a little piece of rubber but rather in doing God’s will.

I won’t, but I am comforted by the fact that the Church is powerless in world health issues. The Church will ignore these Cardinals, just like the leaders of African Nations and aid agencies ignore Rome. The condoms will be distrubuted and lives will be spared.

Nohome

 

[Nohome]

soccerDad:

This is hilarious. Aids from poverty, hunger? Rediculous.

If you find it humorous that people contract AIDS while selling their body for food, I pity your soul.

 

[fix]

Nohome:

If you find it humorous that people contract AIDS while selling their body for food, I pity your soul.

And the solution for such things is a condom???

 

[Nohome]

fix:

And the solution for such things is a condom???

Until there is a cure, for AIDS or poverty, condoms will buy some time for these people. It isn’t a cure nor a permanent fix, but it will save more than preaching the kind of life they should be living.

 

[contemplative]

Nohome:

but it will save more than preaching the kind of life they should be living.

What?!?:whacky:
In the time it takes to teach many the use of condoms and distribute condoms … the Word of God could be preached to just as many to save souls for eternal life.

 

[Nohome]

contemplative:

What?!?:whacky:
In the time it takes to teach many the use of condoms and distribute condoms … the Word of God could be preached to just as many to save souls for eternal life.

Hey, I’m not stopping you, preach away. I just thought I’d save their physical being first.

 

[contemplative]

Nohome:

Hey, I’m not stopping you, preach away. I just thought I’d save their physical being first.

He fasted for forty days and forty nights, and afterwards he was hungry

The tempter approached and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command that these stones become loaves of bread.”

He said in reply, “It is written: ‘One does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes forth from the mouth of God.’”

At this, Jesus said to him, “Get away, Satan! It is written: ‘The Lord, your God, shall you worship and him alone shall you serve.’” (Matt 4:2-4, 10)

 

[Lizzie]

Two of my most heart-wrenching patients were a 19 yo AIDS patient with Kaposis and drowning, failing lungs and another who had HCV, AIDS, seizures, drug addiction and renal failure.

Seeing young ones who were suckered in like these kids die makes one wonder why the promiscuous sex salesmen were never exposed as not only being immoral but also lethal.