Bishop orders priests to read anti-Obama letter at Sunday sermons

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Marie5890 said:
It wouldnt have made a difference in the resultsā€¦
iloveangels;9993875:
Because they wonā€™t come right out and say what they mean in plain English in a soundbite the average Catholic can comprehend. Thatā€™s the problem.
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While it is true our shepherds need to clearly state Church teachings (and also present the realities of sin and Hell as in yesteryear), I wonder if it would have made much of a difference at all if every priest in every Catholic Church throughout the nation had read the letter on Sunday. Why? Because exit polls indicated, I think, that those Catholics who voted for Obama do not attend Mass weekly, are not regular Church goers. They identify as Catholics, but they are not fully practicing Catholics so they 1) would not have been reached by the letter because they may not have been in Church to hear it 2) would likely not have been moved by the letter if they had heard it because they are liberal Catholics and pick and choose what teachings of the Church to follow. Sad.
 
SwizzleStick said:
While it is true our shepherds need to clearly state Church teachings (and also present the realities of sin and Hell as in yesteryear), I wonder if it would have made much of a difference at all if every priest in every Catholic Church throughout the nation had read the letter on Sunday. Why? Because exit polls indicated, I think, that those Catholics who voted for Obama do not attend Mass weekly, are not regular Church goers. They identify as Catholics, but they are not fully practicing Catholics so they 1) would not have been reached by the letter because they may not have been in Church to hear it 2) would likely not have been moved by the letter if they had heard it because they are liberal Catholics and pick and choose what teachings of the Church to follow. Sad.
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Good point.
 
RE: Bishop orders priests to read anti-Obama letter at Sunday sermons

Coming Soon in a Henry VIII redux?

Obama orders priests to read anti-Bishop letter at Sunday sermons.

Not yet. Thank God. Not YET.
 
The saddest thing is the fact that the reason we have abortion in this country is a majority of Catholics vote for it!
 
Jerry-Jet said:
The saddest thing is the fact that the reason we have abortion in this country is a majority of Catholics vote for it!
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Funny, I donā€™t remember any referendum question on my ballot, giving us a choice to vote ā€œYesā€ or ā€œNoā€ on abortionā€¦?
 
Mickey said:
Pro-Obama Catholicā€¦that sounds like an oxymoron. Didnā€™t Pope Benedict say something about a smaller Church being a stronger Church?
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THe Great Apostasy has begun. I am done trying to convert others. I will ensure that my own spiritual house is in order and that of my family. I will continue to pray and I hope other sincere and doctrinally faithful Catholics do so as well.
 
lynnvinc said:
I ever claimed that.

I think you are confusing weather with climate. Iā€™ve been referring to our progression into an uninhabitable climate, that will lead to many knock-on effects that will kill huge portions of humanity and others of Godā€™s creation. We are on the brink and much of the harms are already in the pipes from our previous GHG emissions, and will be playing out over the centuries, even millennia. Itā€™s as if we have shot bullets into the air, which will come down and kill people in the future. And there is no statute of limitations on killing people.
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No, I am pointing the silliness of your position. Weather, no matter the putative cause, is not morally equal to direct abortion.
The other more serious issue is that if we continue to emit large quantities of our greenhouse gases, following a business as usual path, we will likely tip the earth systems into climate hysteresis for 100,000 years or more, during which most of humanity and Godā€™s creation on earth will be wiped out. Or, according to top NASA climate scientists, we could even tip it into runaway warming as on Venus, in which all of life on earth will end.
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Is this your dogma?
That is the very serious sin we are in process of committing. Again, just because people do not die today from this, and the total dying out may take 100s, 1000s, even 100,000s of years, does not make us any less culpable.
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It does not make us culpable because it is not true.
Why we would chose to do this I really donā€™t know, esp when mitigating climate change would save us a lot of money, help our economy and health, mitigate many other problems, and without lowering our productivity or living standards. It is just pure unmindful and evil profligacy on our parts.
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Obama & the gov canā€™t solve this problem tho perhaps they could help in various ways. Ultimately it is up to us. It is up to me. It is up to you.
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Being good stewards of the planet is important. Making some sketchy scientific theories a moral imperative not so much.
 
Mickey said:
Good point.
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Well, thatā€™s the other thing we have to do: Wise up and act like a proper religious organization.

The Catholic church needs to be much harder to get into, warmer and more social and demanding once youā€™re in, and harder to get out of.

We can resist this, we can argue about this, we can make all kinds of excuses about this, but the sooner we do this, the better of weā€™ll be. The longer we wait to do this, the worse it will be. Itā€™s just that simple. Pay now or pay later, with interest.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
THe Great Apostasy has begun. I am done trying to convert others. I will ensure that my own spiritual house is in order and that of my family. I will continue to pray and I hope other sincere and doctrinally faithful Catholics do so as well.
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Amen. The people who are in the Catholic Church, clergy and lay alike, need to convert themselves from inside. The Church herself, her doctrine, her history and her faith is fine. This is what the New Evangelization is really about.

People who have an issue with that are out of luck. It is what it is.
 
fix said:
No, I am pointing the silliness of your position. Weather, no matter the putative cause, is not morally equal to direct abortion.

Is this your dogma?
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Of course it is a much more serious sin to have an abortion or to kill a gas station attendent during a robbery, or to commit massive genocide the way Hilter did. And we should do all we can to try and stop those evils.

Iā€™ve been against abortion for over 50 years, and worked after Roe v. Wade to try and make it illegal again, and also to try and reduce abortions. The two most important persons in my life were nearly aborted (and persons who possibly would have been very dear to my life have been abortion) when abortions were illegal. It is a very important issue to me.

Iā€™m also against killing people in other ways, and Iā€™m for saving lives.

And I donā€™t think it is as serious a sin to participate (being one in many millions) in contributing to the annihilation of much, perhaps all, of life on earth (from global warming and some 8 other very serious human-caused environmental problems) as to have an abortion.

I personally have never had an abortion and would never seek one. However, I am contributing to the annihilation of life on earth through environmental means, and I am striving to reduce that harm and killing.

RE voting, maybe Iā€™m wrong, but I would vote for the person I think would either do the lesser harm to life, or would do the greater good in saving lives. I could be very wrong in that, and I always make it a point to confess what might possibly be a sin every time I vote. So far priests have laughed at me for thinking it was a sin, and have commended me for a well-formed conscience. However, I donā€™t really take their word for that, and I continue to confess after each election. I would recommend confession no matter for whom one votes ā€“ there is no perfect platform.

Itā€™s just that I cannot vote for someone who is in favor of platforms and policies that would have the effect of annihilating life on earth ā€“ whether intentionally or unwittingly. I understand that annihilating life would solve the abortion issue quite effectively once and for all. However, I just cannot support that method.

So we have at least 2 very tough life issues ā€“ abortion and environmental harms that kill ā€“ and we are just going to have to roll up our sleeves and do the hard work on both to help mitigate these, it seems without the help of government.
 
iloveangels said:
Well, thatā€™s the other thing we have to do: Wise up and act like a proper religious organization.

The Catholic church needs to be much harder to get into, warmer and more social and demanding once youā€™re in, and harder to get out of.

We can resist this, we can argue about this, we can make all kinds of excuses about this, but the sooner we do this, the better of weā€™ll be. The longer we wait to do this, the worse it will be. Itā€™s just that simple. Pay now or pay later, with interest.
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Good point. Many Catholics are titled in name only. There are major responsibilities that go with being Catholic, including active participation in the Holy Sacraments and faithfulness to the Magisterium and the Holy See. What can the Vatican and, specifically, American Bishops do to better regulate membership and ensure that all Catholics fulfill their duties to the Church?
 
Tampa_Dave said:
Good point. Many Catholics are titled in name only. There are major responsibilities that go with being Catholic, including active participation in the Holy Sacraments and faithfulness to the Magisterium and the Holy See. What can the Vatican and, specifically, American Bishops do to better regulate membership and ensure that all Catholics fulfill their duties to the Church?
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Itā€™s not a matter of regulating, Dave. Itā€™s a matter of building structure in the local parish such that people are known, missed when they donā€™t show up, and expected to do certain things.

Right now, Iā€™ve been Catholic more than 25 years. My parish is as cold as ice. I could run any kind of business, legal or otherwise, that I wanted and the Church doesnā€™t care. They donā€™t really know me, really. They simply donā€™t care. Everything is self-reported. Everything is self-determined. I could never look at another bible as long as I live, and no one would be the wiser. Thatā€™s wrong. Thatā€™s not how being a Christian is supposed to look.

I had no idea when I converted to the Catholic church that this would essentially be a do-it-yourself affair. But it is. And itā€™s no wonder the Church looks like it does. Itā€™s no surprise to me whatsoever. The culture is stronger than the Church because the culture demands more than the Church and everyone you REALLY interact with is in the culture, not the Church. Itā€™s a recipe for failure. And in at least 80% of cases, failure occurs. 80% of Catholic do not show up for mass once a week, and thatā€™s an important number.

The Pareto rule says that 80% of the effects are caused by 20% of the causes. The fact that parishes are not structured to expect & monitor concrete behaviors of parishioners is one of the handful of real causes for this phenomenon. Another one is the near absence of communal activities for the purpose of making person-to-person bonds to the Church.

Havenā€™t you ever wondered why so many Catholic come to CAF to talk to other Catholics?? This is not an accident. I know a few people on here better than I know people in my own parish.
 
So in the near complete absence of any kind of supporting structure, the bishop has this letter read by priests who may or may not be on board with it, and this is supposed to solve what?
  1. In the average diocese, 80% of the people in the Church arenā€™t even in the building during any of the masses on any given weekend.
  2. Listening to the letter was probably like reading Husserl with a flashlight underwater. The bishops donā€™t want to, for some reason, come out and tell the truth in language averagely-endowed people can comprehend. And yet, half of any organization naturally selected thatā€™s larger than a busload has at least 50% averagely-endowed people. If you want to speak to them, you have to think of that if you want to be successful.
  3. Do you know how many times Iā€™ve had to explain the HHS mandate to oblivious Catholics since February? Iā€™m still doing it. Most Catholics are completely ignorant about it to this day. At the very best, most of them have a foggy notion thatā€™s itā€™s not good and thatā€™s about it. Why? I donā€™t know.
Why am I not surprised that this ā€œreading a letter businessā€ didnā€™t work very well???
 
I know this is a little late in the discussion, but it was too good not to shareā€¦
 
superamazingman said:
I know this is a little late in the discussion, but it was too good not to shareā€¦
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Perfect. 50% of American self-identified Catholics are following their own religion and just happen to meet up in a Catholic church in their community.
 
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