Bishop says Notre Dame is wrong to honor Joe Biden

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_Abyssinia said:
Joe Biden at Syracuse University just days before being honoured at Notre Dame, a Catholic University:

“When your brother is not allowed to marry the man he loves, you are diminished,” Biden said.

syracuse.com/su-news/index.ssf/2016/05/4_issues_vp_joe_biden_wants_th.html

I have read there is going to be a protest taking place against the honouring of Joe Biden.
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“Mr. Vice President, you’re always welcome here.”

time.com/4047605/joe-biden-pope-francis-is-challenging-us
 
It turns out that the event went very well. Both men were praised for their contributions as Catholic Americans. A few dozen protesters were outside and it was peaceful. So all is well.

cruxnow.com/church/2016/05/16/biden-boehner-stress-common-good-at-notre-dame/

"Both men referred to their Catholic faith and also to their friendship that spanned Boehner’s nearly 25 years as a member of the U.S. House of Representatives, and Biden’s two terms as vice president and long service as a U.S. senator from Delaware.

Boehner noted that while he is a Republican and Biden is a Democrat, they are Americans first.

“Mr. Vice President, it’s an honor to share the stage with you today,” Boehner said.

In introducing this year’s Laetare Medal winners, Holy Cross Father John Jenkins, Notre Dame’s president, said the medal was not meant as an endorsement for any of their past votes or political actions, but was meant to recognize them as public servants who had worked for the common good, a key message of Pope Francis’ address to Congress last September.

“You have each found strength and guidance in your faith,” Jenkins said."
 
ComplineSanFran said:
It turns out that the event went very well. Both men were praised for their contributions as Catholic Americans. A few dozen protesters were outside and it was peaceful. So all is well.

cruxnow.com/church/2016/05/16/biden-boehner-stress-common-good-at-notre-dame/

"Both men referred to their Catholic faith and also to their friendship that spanned Boehner’s nearly 25 years as a member of the U.S. House of Representatives, and Biden’s two terms as vice president and long service as a U.S. senator from Delaware.

Boehner noted that while he is a Republican and Biden is a Democrat, they are Americans first.

“Mr. Vice President, it’s an honor to share the stage with you today,” Boehner said.

In introducing this year’s Laetare Medal winners, Holy Cross Father John Jenkins, Notre Dame’s president, said the medal was not meant as an endorsement for any of their past votes or political actions, but was meant to recognize them as public servants who had worked for the common good, a key message of Pope Francis’ address to Congress last September.

“You have each found strength and guidance in your faith,” Jenkins said."
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Problem is they both should be Catholic first.
 
estesbob said:
Problem is they both should be Catholic first.
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Would you say to Rep. Tulsi Gabbard that she should be a Hindu first?

Or Rep Keith Ellison that he must be a Muslim first in all his voting decisions? Where would that leave his non-Muslim constituents?

If one is out in the public, serving the public, it seems to me that sectarianism should not enter into the job performance.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
Would you say to Rep. Tulsi Gabbard that she should be a Hindu first?

Or Rep Keith Ellison that he must be a Muslim first in all his voting decisions? Where would that leave his non-Muslim constituents?

If one is out in the public, serving the public, it seems to me that sectarianism should not enter into the job performance.
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Yes I expect a Muslim to follow his faith in making public policy decisions. Don’t you?
If his non-muslim constituents don’t like the way he serves they vote him out. 🤷

You seriously expect public servants to make decisions that disregard their own conscience? Not following one’s conscience makes one a phony opportunist, making decisions to gain power, fame, money rather than doing what is right.
 
clem456 said:
Yes I expect a Muslim to follow his faith in making public policy decisions. Don’t you?
If his non-muslim constituents don’t like the way he serves they vote him out. 🤷

You seriously expect public servants to make decisions that disregard their own conscience? Not following one’s conscience makes one a phony opportunist, making decisions to gain power, fame, money rather than doing what is right.
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There is a big difference between an individual’s conscience when it comes to the good of the people, and one’s own practice and devotion. Would the Hindu congressperson - even if she believed that everyone should be vegetarian - enact laws that forbade eating meat? Most people recognize the difference between personal religious beliefs and collective good. And sometimes a person puts aside the personal.

I think we sorted this one out with President Kennedy and his Catholicism. And we would have sorted it out with Mitt Romney’s Mormonism.

Joe Biden sorted it out. He seems to have gotten it sorted out with his priests and Bishops too. Isn’t that enough?
 
ComplineSanFran said:
Would you say to Rep. Tulsi Gabbard that she should be a Hindu first?

Or Rep Keith Ellison that he must be a Muslim first in all his voting decisions? Where would that leave his non-Muslim constituents?

If one is out in the public, serving the public, it seems to me that sectarianism should not enter into the job performance.
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Yes-I beleive ones faith should guide their politics.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
There is a big difference between an individual’s conscience when it comes to the good of the people, and one’s own practice and devotion. Would the Hindu congressperson - even if she believed that everyone should be vegetarian - enact laws that forbade eating meat? Most people recognize the difference between personal religious beliefs and collective good. And sometimes a person puts aside the personal.

I think we sorted this one out with President Kennedy and his Catholicism. And we would have sorted it out with Mitt Romney’s Mormonism.

Joe Biden sorted it out. He seems to have gotten it sorted out with his priests and Bishops too. Isn’t that enough?
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Worship pleasing to God can never be a purely private matter…it is especially incumbent upon those who, by virtue of their social or political position, must make decisions regarding fundamental values such as respect for human life, its defence from conception to natural death, the family built upon marriage between a man and a woman….These values are not negotiable.

Pope Benedcit XVI
 
ComplineSanFran said:
There is a big difference between an individual’s conscience when it comes to the good of the people, and one’s own practice and devotion. Would the Hindu congressperson - even if she believed that everyone should be vegetarian - enact laws that forbade eating meat? Most people recognize the difference between personal religious beliefs and collective good. And sometimes a person puts aside the personal.

I think we sorted this one out with President Kennedy and his Catholicism. And we would have sorted it out with Mitt Romney’s Mormonism.

Joe Biden sorted it out. He seems to have gotten it sorted out with his priests and Bishops too. Isn’t that enough?
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You’ve changed the subject now from the mandate to follow one’s faith or conscience in the exercise of public service public service, to the enforcement of specific religious practices.
What do you want to say exactly?

I’m not sure what you think Joe Biden has sorted out with his bishops.
What do you mean?
 
clem456 said:
You’ve changed the subject now from the mandate to follow one’s faith or conscience in the exercise of public service public service, to the enforcement of specific religious practices.
What do you want to say exactly?

I’m not sure what you think Joe Biden has sorted out with his bishops.
What do you mean?
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Hopefully we are not going to hear the oft repeated claim that if a Catholic politician has not been excommunicated that shows tacit approval of his actions by the Church
 
estesbob said:
Hopefully we are not going to hear the oft repeated claim that if a Catholic politician has not been excommunicated that shows tacit approval of his actions by the Church
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Nope. The point was that people of faith - when the faith is different from the mainstream culture and/or government - must sort out for themselves and with the guidance of their spiritual leaders how to do their jobs without their sectarian practices and beliefs causing undue influence.

A formed conscience is a part of us all; that is not what i am speaking of.

Joe Biden knew how to be Catholic whilst taking on lifelong civic and elected responsibilities. He did an excellent job and was honored for it by Notre Dame. He did it with his formed (Catholic) conscience.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
Nope. The point was that people of faith - when the faith is different from the mainstream culture and/or government - must sort out for themselves and with the guidance of their spiritual leaders how to do their jobs without their sectarian practices and beliefs causing undue influence.

A formed conscience is a part of us all; that is not what i am speaking of.

Joe Biden knew how to be Catholic whilst taking on lifelong civic and elected responsibilities. He did an excellent job and was honored for it by Notre Dame. He did it with his formed (Catholic) conscience.
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Here is what Bishops in the Catholic Church have to say about Biden’s position on abortion:

ewtn.com/library/bishops/ChaputBiden.htm

catholicaction.org/bishop_slattery_issues_response_to_pelosi_biden_abortion_remarks

Bishop Slattery says Biden’s “justification for continuing to allow Roe v. Wade to stand” is “incompatible with Catholic teaching.”
 
ComplineSanFran said:
The point was that people of faith - when the faith is different from the mainstream culture and/or government - must sort out for themselves and with the guidance of their spiritual leaders how to do their jobs without their sectarian practices and beliefs causing undue influence.
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You really need to keep separate the unique practices of a religion with its moral doctrines. No one is concerned about carrying rosaries, using prayer rugs, or abstaining from pork. The question is: if you believe something is evil should you support it even if that’s what your constituents want?
A formed conscience is a part of us all; that is not what i am speaking of.
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And what does the formed conscience tell one to do when faced with evil: to allow it or to oppose it?
Joe Biden knew how to be Catholic whilst taking on lifelong civic and elected responsibilities. He did an excellent job and was honored for it by Notre Dame. He did it with his formed (Catholic) conscience.
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Clearly, given that he supports abortion, his conscience on that issue is not properly formed, and to that degree is not Catholic.

Ender
 
ComplineSanFran said:
Nope. The point was that people of faith - when the faith is different from the mainstream culture and/or government - must sort out for themselves and with the guidance of their spiritual leaders how to do their jobs without their sectarian practices and beliefs causing undue influence.

A formed conscience is a part of us all; that is not what i am speaking of.

Joe Biden knew how to be Catholic whilst taking on lifelong civic and elected responsibilities. He did an excellent job and was honored for it by Notre Dame. He did it with his formed (Catholic) conscience.
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You’ve changed the subject again.
First you claimed that Biden’s public service was cool with his bishops and priests. But the reality is different than that, given the quotes from Church folk referenced above.

So are you claiming that he is cool with his bishops and priests or not?
Being honored by Notre Dame does not make him in step with his bishop.

( I really wish posters who are not Catholic would not pretend to speak for the Church.
I respect that you are Episcopalian, but I don’t pronounce on whether you are in step with your own Church or not. How would I know? Out of respect, I keep my mouth shut on the subject of whether your own Episcopal bishop approves of you or not. :hmmm:)
 
ComplineSanFran said:
Nope. The point was that people of faith - when the faith is different from the mainstream culture and/or government - must sort out for themselves and with the guidance of their spiritual leaders how to do their jobs without their sectarian practices and beliefs causing undue influence.

A formed conscience is a part of us all; that is not what i am speaking of.

Joe Biden knew how to be Catholic whilst taking on lifelong civic and elected responsibilities. He did an excellent job and was honored for it by Notre Dame. He did it with his formed (Catholic) conscience.
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But obviously not properly formed as a properly formed conscience is formed based on the teaching of the Church:

1785 In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord’s Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.55

And ignorance of Church teaching is no excuse:

*Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.

1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one’s passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church’s authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.*
 
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