Bishop says Notre Dame is wrong to honor Joe Biden

  • Thread starter Thread starter _Abyssinia
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
There are many of us outside the Roman Catholic Church who see Joe Biden’s faith as something extremely positive. He talks openly about his Catholicism and how during times of personal crisis and grief, it gave him strength and comfort. Do you remember his interview with Stephen Colbert shortly after his son died? Two Catholics sharing what faith means. It was very moving.

I am very happy he is receiving this award; he is a strong symbol of your faith. Look at all the people who DO respect him and think of the positive ways he is representing you.
You see, this is the issue I have when people use Biden and Colbert as positive models on what a Catholic is. Colbert is more of a Protestant when it comes to his faith - the way he talks about it. He’s the “cool and reasonable Catholic” aka A person who makes faith only acceptable in Church and doesn’t dare to bring it to the voting booth.

List the people that do respect him and I’ll go through them.
 
So Catholic teaching should be marginal and ignored by the campus at large by a Catholic university?

Maybe the Church needs to just revoke the name “catholic” from them.

I’m glad we have a bishop speaking out against this after so many years, alongside Pope Benedict speaking put about a huge crisis in the church. These two stories are both connected. The bishops need to stand up and start speaking the truth like this. Hopefully they can go beyond words and start actually doing something about it. There’s no way Notre Dame or other schools should be allowed to keep the name “catholic” without doing major overhauls to their faculty and teaching.
Hey, you’re preaching to the choir. I don’t disagree with you. The Catholic name should be taken off Notre Dame University (in some respects, it already is off). Of course Catholic teaching should not be marginal at a Catholic university, but ND is not a Catholic University. The bishop has no real power over ND. What are our options:
  1. My suggestion - try to carve out a Catholic college within ND. It would be in union with the local bishop, maybe able to reach 10% of the students with consistent Catholic teaching and practice. (10% better than none).
  2. Alternate suggestion - laity ask dioceses to boycott the Holy Cross Fathers; do not support them in any local fundraising, vocations, or recruitment to any of their ministries. This religious order is providing the “cover”, insulating the university from the bishop, giving the false impression to parents, students, alumni, that it is Catholic. If the religious order as a whole was getting pressure, they might replace Fr. Jenkins and a few others in leadership. The religious order is only entity that is officially under the bishop, and the Vatican. Unlike ND which is extremely wealthy and politically connected, the religious order is vulnerable.
 
I don’t believe that the Vice President had to take a stand. Both are quite legal already.
Yes, but if he is truly a Christian, and being in a position of power, it would be in his duty to at least try and put a stop to it.

Giving someone an ‘award’ for ignoring your christian faith and going along with the secular world is not a good thing imo…it sends the wrong message.
 
So Catholic teaching should be marginal and ignored by the campus at large by a Catholic university?

One of the most liberal femenist anti-catholics I’ve ever met is a recent graduate of Nktre Dame in “women’s studies.” She didn’t get taught anything about the faith there. She literally went to Nktre Dame to learn how terrible religion is and become indoctrinated in radical feminism.

Maybe the Church needs to just revoke the name “catholic” from them.

I’m glad we have a bishop speaking out against this after so many years, alongside Pope Benedict speaking put about a huge crisis in the church. These two stories are both connected. The bishops need to stand up and start speaking the truth like this. Hopefully they can go beyond words and start actually doing something about it. There’s no way Notre Dame or other schools should be allowed to keep the name “catholic” without doing major overhauls to their faculty and teaching.
 
Yes, but if he is truly a Christian, and being in a position of power, it would be in his duty to at least try and put a stop to it.

.
First of all, I don’t think a Vice President can change any laws of the land. I’m not an attorney or political scholar, but my guess would be that it’s not in his power.

Secondly, you are assuming that all ‘true’ Christians think the same thing as you do. That is not the case by any means. There is a wide spectrum of political and ethical beliefs that Christians hold.

Thirdly, you are questioning a person you don’t know regarding his religious identification. There is nothing I have seen in Mr Biden’s expression of faith that would question his Christianity. Why would you judge otherwise?
 
First of all, I don’t think a Vice President can change any laws of the land. I’m not an attorney or political scholar, but my guess would be that it’s not in his power.

Secondly, you are assuming that all ‘true’ Christians think the same thing as you do. That is not the case by any means. There is a wide spectrum of political and ethical beliefs that Christians hold.

Thirdly, you are questioning a person you don’t know regarding his religious identification. There is nothing I have seen in Mr Biden’s expression of faith that would question his Christianity. Why would you judge otherwise?
Joe Biden is Catholic. He has been an advocate for same-sex marriage and this is not how a Catholic in public life should behave. Period.

While personally claiming to stand by the Church in regards to believing life starts at conception, he doesn’t want to “impose” on others these views in public life (ontheissues.org/2016/Joe_Biden_Abortion.htm). This is not how a Catholic in public life should behave.

There is controversy surrounding Joe Biden for a reason.
 
First of all, I don’t think a Vice President can change any laws of the land. I’m not an attorney or political scholar, but my guess would be that it’s not in his power.
He has been opposed to Catholic teaching for decades in the Senate before becoming VP, and has consistently championed and promoted more evil since taking that office.
Secondly, you are assuming that all ‘true’ Christians think the same thing as you do. That is not the case by any means. There is a wide spectrum of political and ethical beliefs that Christians hold.
There is ONE faith. If you choose to deviate from the faith, you are still a Christian by baptism, but you are not espousing the Christian faith. Christians must oppose abortion and same-sex “marriage”. Biden enthusiastically supports both, so he is opposed to the Christian faith on both counts.
Thirdly, you are questioning a person you don’t know regarding his religious identification. There is nothing I have seen in Mr Biden’s expression of faith that would question his Christianity. Why would you judge otherwise?
His opposition to the Christian faith and Church teaching is clear evidence to question his faith and adherence to Christianity. Anyone using “right judgment” as scripture commands, would note his blatant apostasy.
 
you are assuming that all ‘true’ Christians think the same thing as you do. That is not the case by any means. There is a wide spectrum of political and ethical beliefs that Christians hold.

you are questioning a person you don’t know regarding his religious identification. There is nothing I have seen in Mr Biden’s expression of faith that would question his Christianity. Why would you judge otherwise?
If a Christian is one by self-definition, then that would take in Catholics, Westboro Baptist, Mormons, Snake Handling fellowships in the hills, EO, Jehovah’s Witnesses, most of Planned Parenthood, that Flying Saucer cult in California, and many other groups. No one can say “you’re not a Christian”.

But Biden claims to be a Catholic. By objective criteria laid out by his Church, he is not a practicing Catholic (means more than going to church). The priests at Notre Dame have a responsibility towards his soul, that they are neglecting. This is comparable to respiratory and cancer doctors honoring someone who defends smoking, and the government’s right to encourage it.
 
Always good to emphasize the positive whenever possible. (Joe, your last name isn’t Biden, is it?)

One possible solution, if we can’t persuade Notre Dame to restore its Catholic identity, is if the University would allow an orthodox Catholic, independent college within the University. Allow it to hire their own faculty for Theology and Philosophy, maybe some other areas, and their own dorm, and their own dorm rules. The students would be impacted by the good and bad of the university in general, taking some courses elsewhere at ND but earning a degree from this college.

That college could seek the Theology mandatum, get recognized by the local bishop as a “Catholic institution”, could be featured in the diocesan website as a Catholic resource. I could see it as a liberal arts undergrad, and maybe offer at least Masters degrees in Theology and Philosophy.
Nope, my surname is not Biden. 😃 😛 :eek: 😉

That is a creative solution. I’m not sure the administration would go for it, but it’s interesting to think about.
 
Joe Biden is Catholic. He has been an advocate for same-sex marriage and this is not how a Catholic in public life should behave. Period.

While personally claiming to stand by the Church in regards to believing life starts at conception, he doesn’t want to “impose” on others these views in public life (ontheissues.org/2016/Joe_Biden_Abortion.htm). This is not how a Catholic in public life should behave.

There is controversy surrounding Joe Biden for a reason.
Joe Biden recently suffered the loss of his son and was no doubt helped through a difficult time by his faith. At the same time he supports the “right” of other parents to kill their children. That is not authentically Catholic. It is not even authentically human. Parents who lose their children through abortion also suffer loss, even if they cannot admit it at the time of their decision. He also supports the “right” of people to mock the sacrament of matrimony, and deny children the basic human right to a stable, loving family with a mother and a father. No one who publicly supports such grave evil should receive public honors from a Catholic institution. It is a great scandal.
 
Just to update everyone on Biden’s position;
I remember vividly the first time, in 1973, I had to go to the floor to vote on abortion. A fellow Senator asked how I would vote. “My position is that I am personally opposed to abortion, but I don’t think I have a right to impose my few on the rest of society. I’ve thought a lot about it, and my position probably doesn’t please anyone. I think the government should stay out completely. I will not vote to overturn the Court’s decision. I will not vote to curtail a woman’s right to choose abortion. But I will also not vote to use federal funds to fund abortion.“
I’ve stuck to my middle-of-the-road position on abortion for more than 30 years. I still vote against partial birth abortion and federal funding, and I’d like to make it easier for scared young mothers to choose not to have an abortion, but I will also vote against a constitutional amendment that strips a woman of her right to make her own choice.
Q: Are you still opposed to public funding for abortion?
A: I still am opposed to public funding for abortion. It goes to the question of whether or not you’re going to impose a view to support something that is not a guaranteed right but an affirmative action to promote.
Although I don’t agree with Biden, this is where he is coming from.

As far as being asked to speak at ND, I have no problem with that, for although his pro-choice position in politics is wrong, he has been a public servant, a good husband, father and practiced his faith as best as he could.

Don’t throw stones unless you are without sin.

Jim
 
…As far as being asked to speak at ND…
The local Bishop’s concern is not someone being “asked to speak” but with someone being given an honor/award. I think that is an important distinction.

Dan
 
Just to update everyone on Biden’s position;

Although I don’t agree with Biden, this is where he is coming from.
It’s a nonsensical position. He claims he believes they are babies in the womb, but also believes mothers can pay to have them killed. This is wildly illogical and without reason.
As far as being asked to speak at ND, I have no problem with that, for although his pro-choice position in politics is wrong, he has been a public servant, a good husband, father and practiced his faith as best as he could.
He’s being given an award, which is a far greater scandal than just being allowed to speak. Although even speaking at ND is a great scandal.

And no, he has not practiced his faith as best he could. He’s certainly capable of following Church teaching. He obstinately REFUSES to practice the faith.
Don’t throw stones unless you are without sin.
I’m not throwing stones at him, I’m using right judgment, which Jesus commanded of us. He was adamant about confronting our brothers and sisters who are obstinate in error. We are to confront them, and if they won’t repent, they are to be excommunicated. I wish more bishops had compassion for his soul and showed him the mercy of excommunicating him.
 
It’s a nonsensical position. He claims he believes they are babies in the womb, but also believes mothers can pay to have them killed. This is wildly illogical and without reason…
How reasonable is your position? If a mother commits the crime of murdering her child by abortion, would you want her to get the death penalty or spend life in prison for the crime of murder?
 
It’s a nonsensical position. He claims he believes they are babies in the womb, but also believes mothers can pay to have them killed. This is wildly illogical and without reason.
He makes no such claim.

He doesn’t agree with abortion, but also knows that the government can’t outlaw it.

You think they can, so I’ll ask you, if you could write a law to ban all abortions, what penalty would you write into the law for mothers who obtain abortions and the doctors who perform them ?

Would your law send them to prison, if so, for how long ?

Would the penalty be the same as for murder ?

Jim
 
How reasonable is your position? If a mother commits the crime of murdering her child by abortion, would you want her to get the death penalty or spend life in prison for the crime of murder?
Since most are emotionally compromised at some level I would be fine with them being charged with voluntary manslaughter with attendant jail time and recording them as fellons. If they have children that would be impacted then they should be put on house arrest.

The doctors on the otherhand should be charged with aggregated murder. They are basically contract killers paid to commit infanticide.

Sounds harsh??? Anyone that can rip a child limb from limb and throw them in the trash is the lowest of the low. Their moral compass points them straight to Hell. One only prays they will repent and beg forgiveness before they die.
 
Just to update everyone on Biden’s position;

Although I don’t agree with Biden, this is where he is coming from.

As far as being asked to speak at ND, I have no problem with that, for although his pro-choice position in politics is wrong, he has been a public servant, a good husband, father and practiced his faith as best as he could.

Don’t throw stones unless you are without sin.

Jim
I’m not sure I’ve come across this before:
As the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith put it in its “Instruction on Bioethics” (Feb. 22, 1987): “All men of good will must commit themselves, particularly within their professional field and in the exercise of their civil rights, to ensuring the reform of morally unacceptable civil laws and the correction of illicit practices.” (Donum Vitae, n. III)
priestsforlife.org/magisterium/cardocqanda.html#political

Here is what Archbishop Chaput and Archbishop Conley had to say about some of Biden’s comments regarding abortion being personal etc: ewtn.com/library/bishops/ChaputBiden.htm
 
We are losing sight of the person who is most hurt by Joe Biden’s award: that is, Joe Biden. The priests at Notre Dame have a spiritual responsibility to him, that they are neglecting. The bishop of South Bend/Fort Wayne is at least considering his spiritual welfare. He is the priest who is loving towards Mr. Biden. If Mr. Biden does come to a conversion of heart, it will be because of men like that bishop. The Holy Spirit does the converting, but priests and protesting laity sometimes open the door. Pray for his conversion. And pray for the wolves in shepherd’s clothing in academia.
 
We are losing sight of the person who is most hurt by Joe Biden’s award: that is, Joe Biden. The priests at Notre Dame have a spiritual responsibility to him, that they are neglecting. The bishop of South Bend/Fort Wayne is at least considering his spiritual welfare. He is the priest who is loving towards Mr. Biden. If Mr. Biden does come to a conversion of heart, it will be because of men like that bishop. The Holy Spirit does the converting, but priests and protesting laity sometimes open the door. Pray for his conversion. And pray for the wolves in shepherd’s clothing in academia.
I agree with all of the above. I can assure you that Bishop Rhoades is also deeply concerned with the students and faculty at Notre Dame and all the people of his diocese who may think that this situation may cause them to believe that pro-choice and pro-life positions are equally valid. His first homily to us at his installation mass was about the danger of moral relativism.

We have been blessed to have Bishop Kevin Rhoades, his predecessor, Bishop John Michael D’Arcy, and our former auxiliary Bishop Jenky, who was previously the Holy Cross religious superior at Notre Dame, and currently Ordinary of Peoria, Illinois.
 
We are losing sight of the person who is most hurt by Joe Biden’s award: that is, Joe Biden. The priests at Notre Dame have a spiritual responsibility to him, that they are neglecting. The bishop of South Bend/Fort Wayne is at least considering his spiritual welfare. He is the priest who is loving towards Mr. Biden. If Mr. Biden does come to a conversion of heart, it will be because of men like that bishop. The Holy Spirit does the converting, but priests and protesting laity sometimes open the door. Pray for his conversion. And pray for the wolves in shepherd’s clothing in academia.
Excellent post! 👍
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top