Bishop says Notre Dame is wrong to honor Joe Biden

[estesbob]

I don’t understand this need to defend a politician or pretend he is in conformity to Church teaching. Of course he isn’t. He obstinately and blatantly rejects Church teaching.

Why do people keep twisting themselves in knots trying to pretend that Joe Biden, or the DNC for that matter, are compatible with the Christian faith? It’s abundantly clear they are not. Is it an old sentimental attachment to a political party they’ve belonged to for most of their lives? Is it hatred of the GOP? Is it a wish that Church teaching would change? What is it?

For many it because they have aligned themselves with the Democrat Party. Being Catholic and Democrat means you constantly have to rationalize supporting people who stand in direct opposition to core moral teachings of the Catholic Church

 

[estesbob]

Suppose someone is personally opposed to abortion and believes it to be a grave sin and morally wrong. But OTOH, she does not support laws which would make abortion a criminal offense and put the woman in jail for murder. Would she be “obstinately persevering in manifest mortal sin”? A Roman Catholic priest did not think so.

If they vote for laws that support abortion the answer is yes . Whether one can find a Catholic priest that disagrees with that is totally irrelevant .

 

[commenter]

LOL, seriously you now want to drag the president into this? What does that have to do with anything?

I will stand by what I have been saying. You have your interpretation. I will take the interpretation of bishops, archbishops, cardinals and popes.

The moral issue here is not about President Obama, or even about Vice President Biden, nor is it directly about abortion. It is about the priests in leadership at Notre Dame.

They are breaking the 8th commandment, claiming publicly something that they know is untrue, which appears to put Biden and others at spiritual risk in terms of scandal.

Whether their lying is a “sin” for them or not, we cannot judge. We can judge whether or not this is the “straw that breaks the camel’s back” in terms of whether ND is or is not Catholic. On that issue, there are good arguments on both sides. But it is the 8th commandment we are talking about here.

 

[rmartensjr]

For many it because they have aligned themselves with the Democrat Party. Being Catholic and Democrat means you **constantly have to rationalize **supporting people who stand in direct opposition to core moral teachings of the Catholic Church

 

[Trader]

If they vote for laws that support abortion the answer is yes . Whether one can find a Catholic priest that disagrees with that is totally irrelevant .

Biden’s position is pretty much the same as we heard this week from Pontius Pilate.

I know he/they is/are innocent, but the mob/voters want him/them dead. I will do nothing to prevent an/many unjust killing/killings, but I take no responsibility for my own actions.

Pilate should get an award from Notre Dame for his efficient keeping of order in Jerusalem if Biden qualifies for an award as a Catholic politician.

 

[RUNE190]

Suppose someone is personally opposed to abortion and believes it to be a grave sin and morally wrong. But OTOH, she does not support laws which would make abortion a criminal offense and put the woman in jail for murder. Would she be “obstinately persevering in manifest mortal sin”? A Roman Catholic priest did not think so.

How could you make a law that would make abortion a criminal offense. That would force what Catholics believe on everyone and you can’t do that. And what weight does A Roman Catholic priest carry.

 

[rmartensjr]

Biden’s position is pretty much the same as we heard this week from Pontius Pilate.

I know he/they is/are innocent, but the mob/voters want him/them dead. I will do nothing to prevent an/many unjust killing/killings, but I take no responsibility for my own actions.

Pilate should get an award from Notre Dame for his efficient keeping of order in Jerusalem if Biden qualifies for an award as a Catholic politician.

 

[estesbob]

How could you make a law that would make abortion a criminal offense. That would force what Catholics believe on everyone and you can’t do that. And what weight does A Roman Catholic priest carry.

So are laws against murder and rape forcing Catholic belief on everyone?

 

[RUNE190]

So are laws against murder and rape forcing Catholic belief on everyone?

Abortion. Abortion was what we were talking about. You and I may consider it murder but not everyone does so you can force what WE believe on everyone else. And who said anything in this conversation about rape.

 

[estesbob]

Abortion. Abortion was what we were talking about. You and I may consider it murder but not everyone does so you can force what WE believe on everyone else. And who said anything in this conversation about rape.

So why should we force what we believe about rape on everyone else?

 

[commenter]

Abortion. Abortion was what we were talking about.

Actually, the thread is about what the leaders of Notre Dame did. What they did was not abortion, it was making a false statement - and their bishop called them out on it.

 

[zz912]

How could you make a law that would make abortion a criminal offense. That would force what Catholics believe on everyone and you can’t do that. And what weight does A Roman Catholic priest carry.

I take it you are in favor or eliminating every single welfare and subsidy program in the government, correct?

You wouldn’t want to impose your beliefs on charity and helping others onto other people, would you?

It’s funny how abortion, same-sex “marriage” and other moral issues like it are the ONLY Catholic beliefs some on the left don’t want to force on others…

 

[RUNE190]

So why should we force what we believe about rape on everyone else?

What value is there in rape? That is wrong to most people. No one see rape as good, however, there are those in our society who see abortion as birth control. You can’t put both of these that we see as evil in the same category for all.

 

[RUNE190]

I take it you are in favor or eliminating every single welfare and subsidy program in the government, correct?

You wouldn’t want to impose your beliefs on charity and helping others onto other people, would you?

It’s funny how abortion, same-sex “marriage” and other moral issues like it are the ONLY Catholic beliefs some on the left don’t want to force on others…

Did I say anything about eliminating every single welfare and subsidy program in the government?? Speaking of “some on the left”.

I would like to impose my beliefs on charity and helping other onto other people but I SAID
you can’t do that. I would also like to force my beliefs on abortion, same-sex “marriage” and other moral issues on others BUT YOU CAN’T DO THAT. You can only do what you can to convince others that these things are wrong until we outnumber those who find no problem with these issues.

 

[estesbob]

What value is there in rape? That is wrong to most people. No one see rape as good, however, there are those in our society who see abortion as birth control. You can’t put both of these that we see as evil in the same category for all.

Actually abortion is much, much more evil. The problem is those who want to dismiss those things they don’t have a problem with as being “religious” issues but are perfectly OK with morality being made law when they agree with it.

ALL laws enforce someones view of morality. The idea that we have to accept abortion because it is legal is specious.

 

[zz912]

Did I say anything about eliminating every single welfare and subsidy program in the government?? Speaking of “some on the left”.

I would like to impose my beliefs on charity and helping other onto other people but I SAID
you can’t do that. I would also like to force my beliefs on abortion, same-sex “marriage” and other moral issues on others BUT YOU CAN’T DO THAT. You can only do what you can to convince others that these things are wrong until we outnumber those who find no problem with these issues.

So morality should be determined by majority opinion.

It doesn’t matter how many people believe the truth, abortion is a horrific evil and must be illegal. Same with rape, same with murder. We don’t wait for people to change their opinions before we outlaw violent attacks on others.

 

[estesbob]

Did I say anything about eliminating every single welfare and subsidy program in the government?? Speaking of “some on the left”.

I would like to impose my beliefs on charity and helping other onto other people but I SAID
you can’t do that. I would also like to force my beliefs on abortion, same-sex “marriage” and other moral issues on others BUT YOU CAN’T DO THAT. You can only do what you can to convince others that these things are wrong until we outnumber those who find no problem with these issues.

So does a Catholic University honoring a man who publicly supports abortion help convince others it is wrong?

 

[RUNE190]

Actually abortion is much, much more evil. The problem is those who want to dismiss those things they don’t have a problem with as being “religious” issues but are perfectly OK with morality being made law when they agree with it.

ALL laws enforce someones view of morality. The idea that we have to accept abortion because it is legal is specious.

Abortion IS much more evil but you DO have to accept abortions being done. You don’t have to condone abortions. You don’t have to encourage anyone to have an abortion. You don’t have to participate in carrying out an abortion but until our legislators get the kahunas to see abortion as murder, it IS legal. Like it or not. Unfortunately, it IS legal. It part of the decay of our society.

 

[RUNE190]

So does a Catholic University honoring a man who publicly supports abortion help convince others it is wrong?

I think not.

 

[RUNE190]

So morality should be determined by majority opinion.

It doesn’t matter how many people believe the truth, abortion is a horrific evil and must be illegal. Same with rape, same with murder. We don’t wait for people to change their opinions before we outlaw violent attacks on others.

No, morality should NOT be determined by majority opinion. I didn’t say it should.

Abortion should be illegal as is rape and murder but it isn’t and you can say that violent attacks on others should be outlawed but there are people out there WHO DON’T SEE ABORTION AS A VIOLENT ATTACK. To them it is just making their lives easier. In the early stages of the pregnancy, what is being aborted is just protoplasm. They don’t see that life begins at the moment of conception and how they can justify partial birth abortion is something I will never understand.