Black and LDS

[Carl_Nicholas]

My position is clear.
Peoples belief is not silly.

Denominationalism is not funny.

Show me where Jesus thought it was funny.

You think mormons are mislead…am I correct?

You think something about that is funny…I disagree.

Not exactly what was posted

Corrections ( If I may )

1st my position is also clear
2nd your definifition of denominations would not reflect mine
3rd I used the word "silly’ you used funny ( I think it is silly )
4th No, I do not think being mislead is " funny " ( your words again ) rather I think it sad ( already said that )
5th you said peoples beliefs are not silly, I said that JS and the birth of the BoM and thus all the teachings of said invented religion is INDEED SILLY

Well now that all that is corrected, do you have any other questions for me ??

God bless,
Carl

 

[PaulDupre]

While a Mormon could have been perfectly obedient and still ended up with several wives…and thinking God was partial to skin color.

This negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a BLACK SKIN, and possibly being born in darkest Africa—if that negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. IN SPITE OF ALL HE DID IN THE PRE-EXISTENT LIFE, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there AS A SERVANT, but he will get celestial glory.”

“I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the negro is after. He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn’t just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn’t that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the negro seeks absorbtion with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage. That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feeling to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, ‘First we pity, then endure, then embrace.’"

• (Race Problems as They Affect the Church, an address by Apostle Mark E. Petersen, delivered at the Convention of Teachers of Religion on the College Level, Brigham Young University, August 27,1954)

 

[excaliber]

Not exactly what was posted

Corrections ( If I may )

1st my position is also clear
2nd your definifition of denominations would not reflect mine
3rd I used the word "silly’ you used funny ( I think it is silly )
4th No, I do not think being mislead is " funny " ( your words again ) rather I think it sad ( already said that )
5th you said peoples beliefs are not silly, I said that JS and the birth of the BoM and thus all the teachings of said invented religion is INDEED SILLY

Well now that all that is corrected, do you have any other questions for me ??

God bless,
Carl

That’s a different thread.
I did not intend a discusion on this matter.

My point other peoples beliefs may seem silly to YOU. However what is the point in saying to mormons you think there beliefs are silly?

It will just upset them.

 

[Carl_Nicholas]

That’s a different thread.
I did not intend a discusion on this matter.

My point other peoples beliefs may seem silly to YOU. However what is the point in saying to mormons you think there beliefs are silly?

It will just upset them.

Hi again excaliber,

Is it your opinion that I ( Catholic ) should be more concerned with making a Mormon upset OR speaking the truth as I see it and defending the Catholic Church against the very thing that calls our crede an abomination ( Mr. JS ) ( among others ).

By the way, other peoples beliefs are exactly that, other peoples beliefs, I will try and correct you again and say I SAID " JS, the merits and history in wich the LDS is founded as well as their current prophit is INDEED SILLY.

Peace,
Carl

 

[excaliber]

Hi again excaliber,

Is it your opinion that I ( Catholic ) should be more concerned with making a Mormon upset OR speaking the truth as I see it and defending the Catholic Church against the very thing that calls our crede an abomination ( Mr. JS ) ( among others ).

By the way, other peoples beliefs are exactly that, other peoples beliefs, I will try and correct you again and say I SAID " JS, the merits and history in wich the LDS is founded as well as their current prophit is INDEED SILLY.

Peace,
Carl

If you have not noticed I am not even calling YOUR WAY of preaching or evangelism or what ever your doing silly.

However not all Catholics evangelise by calling people silly for thinking a sertain way.

Do it if you wish, but show me where scripture supports it…or even the catechism.

We should become all things to all people,so we can save some.
Not call them silly,which will upset them and make your message less charitable.

ask role tide
He never called me silly…even when I was LOL.

 

[excaliber]

PaulDupre:
Other then going back and forth with Carl.

Im waiting to see what action the mormon church took against the man that said these terrible things.

This Mark E.Petterson???

 

[Carl_Nicholas]

If you have not noticed I am not even calling YOUR WAY of preaching or evangelism or what ever your doing silly.

However not all Catholics evangelise by calling people silly for thinking a sertain way.

Do it if you wish, but show me where scripture supports it…or even the catechism.

We should become all things to all people,so we can save some.
Not call them silly,which will upset them and make your message less charitable.

ask role tide
He never called me silly…even when I was LOL.

Fair enough excaliber,

Your point is a valid one

God bless,
Carl

 

[lurdes]

Good fruit is produced by the lds church. The lds are often good citizens and trustworthy and the young are much in demand in the corporate world if on campus recruitment is anything to go by on the campus of BYU.

To be a good Citizen an trustworthy doesn’t mean you are bearing good fruit, to bear good fruit means to server others, the poor, the widows, the orphans preaching the real Gospel.

 

[lurdes]

Blacks are Inferior

Church leader Bruce R. McConkie, on the denial of equality for Africans: 

    “NEGROES IN THIS LIFE ARE DENIED THE PRIESTHOOD; under NO circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation IS NOT CARRIED AFFIRMATIVELY TO THEM... “NEGROES ARE NOT EQUAL WITH OTHER RACES WHERE THE RECEIPT OF CERTAIN SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS ARE CONCERNED...” (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, p. 477)

 

Future President of the Mormon church, Joseph Fielding Smith wrote:

    “Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness HE BECAME THE FATHER OF AN INFERIOR RACE.”
    (The Way to Perfection, page 101)

     

More from Smith:

    “There is a reason why one man is BORN BLACK and with OTHER DISADVANTAGES, while another is BORN WHITE with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient; more or less, to the laws that were given us there.”
    (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, page 61)

 

[PaulDupre]

Other then going back and forth with Carl.

Im waiting to see what action the mormon church took against the man that said these terrible things.

This Mark E.Petterson???

Action against him? He was revered by the Mormons as a prophet, seer and revelator for the rest of his life. These things are Mormon teachings and have never been repudiated by the church. They are kept on the down-low these days, but have never been disavowed.

 

[lurdes]

this is from the website I gave earlier but here is the site again
www.realmormonhistory.com

 

[lurdes]

Thousands of our Black brothers and sisters have overcome the myths and accusations against the church, and have become members even at great sacrifice and sometimes persecution, from their own families and friends. I believe it is because they looked below the surface and beyond the lies and half truths, that are spread by anti-mormons, and discovered the truth. I admire their courage. I am curious to know what you all think about that, and how anybody can believe that we are any more or less racist than any other church.

 [blacklds.org/](http://www.blacklds.org/)

A myth?
People of Color Consort with the Devil

Also from McConkie: Cain was an associate of Lucifer and is the Father of the Negros.

    “Though he was a rebel and AN ASSOCIATE OF LUCIFER IN PRE-EXISTENCE, and though he was a liar from the beginning whose name was Perdition, CAIN MANAGED TO ATTAIN THE PRIVILEGE OF MORTAL BIRTH. Under Adam's tutelage, he began in this life to serve God....he came out in open rebellion, fought God, worshiped Lucifer, and slew Abel.... “As a result of his rebellion, CAIN WAS CURSED WITH A DARK SKIN; he became the father of the Negroes, and those spirits who ARE NOT WORTHY to receive the priesthood are born through his lineage. He became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition. As a result of his mortal birth he is assured of a tangible body of flesh and bones in eternity, a fact which will enable him to RULE over SATAN.”(Mormon Doctrine, p. 102)



According to the 3rd president of the Mormon church, John Taylor, Cain's curse of a dark skin marks the representatives of the Devil:

    “And after the flood we are told that the CURSE that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through HAM'S WIFE, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? because it was necessary that the DEVIL SHOULD HAVE A REPRESENTATION upon the earth as well as God;...” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 22, page 304)

 

[excaliber]

If the first revelation was correct
then the second is wrong. If the second was correct the first was wrong.

CHECKMATE!!!

Blacks were in the priesthood…then out…then in again

Poligamy was ok…then not ok.

One is a prophet or a false prophet.

Question…
How can a restored church be worse than what its supposed to restore?

Show me where Catholics were taught conflicting teachings?

 

[scipio337]

One doesn’t have to look very far to see the motivation. Case history of Bob Jones University v. United States and the dedication date of the Sao Paulo Temple.

What is not expressed is that this wasn’t only a ban on the priesthood, but also from endowments, temple marriages, sealings and the highest degree of glory in the “Celestial Kingdom”. Of course, given the LDS belief that these folks were “less valiant” in the preexistence, I guess many people didn’t want them there.

 

[excaliber]

One doesn’t have to look very far to see the motivation. Case history of Bob Jones University v. United States and the dedication date of the Sao Paulo Temple.

What is not expressed is that this wasn’t only a ban on the priesthood, but also from endowments, temple marriages, sealings and the highest degree of glory in the “Celestial Kingdom”. Of course, given the LDS belief that these folks were “less valiant” in the preexistence, I guess many people didn’t want them there.

What in the world is a temple marriage???

 

[PaulDupre]

What in the world is a temple marriage???

One of the ordinances performed in LDS temples is sealing of men and women for all eternity (aka “temple marriage” or “celestial marriage”) in place of a civil- or church wedding. In Mormon theology, marriage is not “until death do ye part” but “for time and all eternity”. It is a very short and simple ceremony (takes about 5 minutes).

Only “worthy” Mormons may attend these weddings. It is a great source of heartache for parents of Mormon converts who marry in the temple - the “unworthy” parents cannot attend their child’s wedding.

 

[zerinus]

What in the world is a temple marriage???

We believe that marriage was intended by God from the beginning to be eternal, and last throughout the eternities, and continue after death. But for marriage to solemnized for eternity, and remain in force after death, it must be performed by the legitimate authority of the priesthood, which only the LDS Church possesses. This is one of the sacred ordinances that are only performed in our temples; hence it is often referred to as a “temple marriage”.

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

If the first revelation was correct
then the second is wrong. If the second was correct the first was wrong.

CHECKMATE!!!

Blacks were in the priesthood…then out…then in again

Poligamy was ok…then not ok.

One is a prophet or a false prophet.

Question…
How can a restored church be worse than what its supposed to restore?

Show me where Catholics were taught conflicting teachings?

Matthew 13:

3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

zerinus

 

[scipio337]

We believe that marriage was intended by God from the beginning to be eternal, and last throughout the eternities, and continue after death. But for marriage to solemnized for eternity, and remain in force after death, it must be performed by the legitimate authority of the priesthood, which only the LDS Church possesses. This is one of the sacred ordinances that are only performed in our temples; hence it is often referred to as a “temple marriage”.

zerinus

…which also (along with the “priesthood”) wasn’t offered to blacks until 1978, just a little after Bob Jones University v. United States started to turn against racist policies (translation: lose big $$$$$$$$), and when did that São Paulo temple open?

Interestingly enough, by his very own racist doctrine, Joey Smith wouldn’t have been eligible for the “priesthood”, or any of the successive “ordinances”.

 

[PaulDupre]

Interestingly enough, by his very own racist doctrine, Joey Smith wouldn’t have been eligible for the “priesthood”, or any of the successive “ordinances”.

Can you explain that?