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excaliber
Guest
Clear incorect interpretation!It is!The quote is from the Book of Mormon. It refers to a vision that Nephi saw of Mary the mother of Jesus:
1 Nephi 11:
13 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city of Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white.
14 And it came to pass that I saw the heavens open; and an angel came down and stood before me; and he said unto me: Nephi, what beholdest thou?
15 And I said unto him: A virgin, most beautiful and fair above all other virgins.
In the Bible, whitens is associated with beauty, as well as with purity and holiness:
Psalms 51:
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Song of Solomon 5:
10 My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand.
Lamentations 4:
7 Her Nazarites were purer than snow, they were whiter than milk, they were more ruddy in body than rubies, their polishing was of sapphire
Daniel 11:
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
Daniel 12:
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Revelation 19:
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
zerinus
Z this thread is not helping mormonism at all…Clear incorect interpretation.
First of all the bible is not talking about Europeans. There is a difference between the ACTUAL color white. And a race of people.
I don’t understand why anyone would connect a race of people with the white referred to in the bible.
- There is no race of people that Phisicaly resemble the color white,
because if they did they would be abnormal.When I was young I had no idea why people called me black when I was light brown in complection. Because we are not talking about color like the bible.
Why on earth would Joseph smith or any other mormon of high rank think that the bible was talking about people of European decent?
- white is symbolic of purity. Not only is there no race of people who are actualy white…there is no race of people who are pure.
All are just as sinful as the rest and that is obvious with no need of explanation. - I don’t understand racism. It has absolutely no purpose.
Also Jesus was not of european decent…other wise the bible would be wrong about his birth place.
Not white colord.
Not of european decent.
In what way was Jesus or Mary white?
Jesus was pure, and so was his mother. But then how dose purity resemble ANY race of humans on the planet?
explanation please!!!
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zerinus
Guest
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excaliber
Guest
Im still waiting for the answers to my questions in my above post.
However I would like to see the answer from the bible…not the book of mormon.
As soon as the Catholic church says that the book of mormon is scripture,then I will believe it
LOL
However I would like to see the answer from the bible…not the book of mormon.
As soon as the Catholic church says that the book of mormon is scripture,then I will believe it
LOL
J
Jerusha
Guest
The only white people I have ever seen were albinos. And even then, they are pinkish. No melanin.
Studies of them do not indicate any behavioral or cognitive differences other than what one might expect from others’ reactions to their differences, and sun sensitivity and visual problems.
I suppose melanin count has an effect on the conscience and intellect? Not unless you are a disciple of these guys:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Jensen
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve
Perhaps the light of knowlege of God, that shines from within,might, in English, confuse some people. A person might have that “light”, but have very dark skin. The converse is also true.
Studies of them do not indicate any behavioral or cognitive differences other than what one might expect from others’ reactions to their differences, and sun sensitivity and visual problems.
I suppose melanin count has an effect on the conscience and intellect? Not unless you are a disciple of these guys:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Jensen
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve
Perhaps the light of knowlege of God, that shines from within,might, in English, confuse some people. A person might have that “light”, but have very dark skin. The converse is also true.
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ralphinal
Guest
So would it be fair to say, based on the teachings of the LDS along with historical facts, that Jesus could have been fairly dark skinned? Or, if skin tone does equate with spirituality, he had to have been lighter toned?
Is it safe to say, in LDS thought, that Jesus had brown eyes and dark hair?
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ibkc
Guest
I’d be quite surprised if the LDS has ever thought this through, but if this is what they do teach, then the incident of Jesus’ arrest in the garden of Gethsemane directly contradicts the idea of Jesus looking different from other Galilean Jews of the time. Judas had to indicate to the soldiers whom Jesus was because they could not tell him apart from his disciples. If Jesus had had an appearance that was radically different from everyone else in the area - had he looked like a northern European you’d think the Bible would mention it. A person with fair skin, light hair and blue eyes would have been extremely exotic in Palestine 2,000 years ago.
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excaliber
Guest
Ok so no answer from z on my last question.
Here is my next question.
If white people or people of european decent were in any way shape or form more special to God then anyone else.
Why did God pick Abraham to bring forth his promises?
We all know people of white skin color are albino, so when we say white we mean of european decent…was abraham of european decent? no
Was Aaron the high priest in Isreal
of european decent?no
Abrahams son Ishmeal, was he of european decent? no
When God displayed his power over all man made Gods and kings through 10 plagues…did he do that in front of Isreal and people of european decent or isreal and people of African decent?
Last I checked egypt was in africa.
where in the bible has God so much as hinted that people of european decent were in any way more special then anyone else?
So where did the idea come from…it JUST SO HAPPENED to come a man of european decent,trying to find a way to support racist beliefs. Big supprise.
LOL
In summary, God made a variety of people chinees mexican african european middle eastern etc…etc…all in the Image of God.
God made it clear that Isreal was a special people through Abraham,
If God also wanted people of european decent to be special he would have made that CLEAR also.
The bible clearly states that " God is not partial"…what part of not partial did mormons not understand when they were making up rules about there man made priest hood?
Here is my next question.
If white people or people of european decent were in any way shape or form more special to God then anyone else.
Why did God pick Abraham to bring forth his promises?
We all know people of white skin color are albino, so when we say white we mean of european decent…was abraham of european decent? no
Was Aaron the high priest in Isreal
of european decent?no
Abrahams son Ishmeal, was he of european decent? no
When God displayed his power over all man made Gods and kings through 10 plagues…did he do that in front of Isreal and people of european decent or isreal and people of African decent?
Last I checked egypt was in africa.
where in the bible has God so much as hinted that people of european decent were in any way more special then anyone else?
So where did the idea come from…it JUST SO HAPPENED to come a man of european decent,trying to find a way to support racist beliefs. Big supprise.
LOL
In summary, God made a variety of people chinees mexican african european middle eastern etc…etc…all in the Image of God.
God made it clear that Isreal was a special people through Abraham,
If God also wanted people of european decent to be special he would have made that CLEAR also.
The bible clearly states that " God is not partial"…what part of not partial did mormons not understand when they were making up rules about there man made priest hood?
Z
zerinus
Guest
I have no idea; you tell me. You give Him any description you like. What conclusion do you intend to draw from that?
zerinus
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excaliber
Guest
we intend to draw that people of european decent are no different then people of African decent in the sight of God.
And there is no scriptural…or any other proof to say otherwise.
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ralphinal
Guest
If you say that there is no real rules on what Jesus looked like, I can say that the LDS was lead into error by a racist man who was a product of his time, and it was lead back when a stronger willed man stood up for what is right. Because if Jesus was dark skinned, then there is NO WAY possible to say that those with dark skin should be deprived of anything. If you tell me that Jesus must be seen as looking like JS or BY, then the whole thing falls on its face. Obviously, he could not have.
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excaliber
Guest
I found this info on an Orthodox website, about christianity in africa. I am not sure where Catholic and Orthodox disagree on the matter though.
The Orthodox Church in Africa is unique in its establishment. It was prophesied by Isaiah in 750 B.C. (Is. 19:19) and fulfilled by the flight of Jesus’ family into Egypt to escape King Herod’s tyranny, where the Holy Family eventually found refuge among the Africans. Likewise, the Church in Alexandria, Egypt became on of the four primary Christian sees in the world, among the churches of Jerusalem, Antioch, and Rome, joined only later by Constantinople.
As is prophesied in the Old Testament, African kings were among the first among the nations to know about the birth of Christ, and come and offer gifts and worship him. (Pslm 68:31, 72:10; Is. 60:5-6). These were the beginnings of African Christianity.
These roots were strengthened later by the ministries of the apostles, including the Apostle Symeon, (“the Canaanite”) who was African. Simon of Cyrene, (which is now modern-day Libya) who helped Christ carry the cross and was a follower and disciple, was also an African. Simon’s devotion was such that both he and his two sons followed Christ (Mk. 15:21); his sons turned out to be strong and effective messengers of the Gospel and became leaders in the Church.
Other apostles travelled throughout Africa. The Apostle John Mark ministered extensively in Alexandria, Egypt, and in fact was martyred there. St. Matthew went to Ethiopia and when he arrived there, found many Ethiopian Christians. During this period, Christianity developed in Egypt, Nubia, Sudan and Ethiopia.
After the bloody period of persecution during 203 A.D. - 313 A.D., the African Church began the monastic movement known throughout the world today. The African Church is also credited with the establishment of the first catechetical school (in Alexandria) and, after Saint Athnaisus’ skillful defense of the Orthodox faith in front of the first Ecumenical Council, the formulation of the Nicene Creed (“We believe in one God, the Father Almighty”).
There were many other Africans who were disciples, teachers and prophets of early Christianity. Symeon, called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene were both prophets in the Antiochian Church. And as many remember, Philip was called by divine intervention to meet the Ethiopian eunuch, who himself was a man of great statuture: he was the finance minister under Queen Candace of Ethiopia.
Indeed, whatever they may have been called, Africans, Hammites, Canaanites, Cushites, or even Semites, black Africans were a part of Christianity from its very beginning and played a spiritual role in spreading the Word.
The Orthodox Church in Africa is unique in its establishment. It was prophesied by Isaiah in 750 B.C. (Is. 19:19) and fulfilled by the flight of Jesus’ family into Egypt to escape King Herod’s tyranny, where the Holy Family eventually found refuge among the Africans. Likewise, the Church in Alexandria, Egypt became on of the four primary Christian sees in the world, among the churches of Jerusalem, Antioch, and Rome, joined only later by Constantinople.
As is prophesied in the Old Testament, African kings were among the first among the nations to know about the birth of Christ, and come and offer gifts and worship him. (Pslm 68:31, 72:10; Is. 60:5-6). These were the beginnings of African Christianity.
These roots were strengthened later by the ministries of the apostles, including the Apostle Symeon, (“the Canaanite”) who was African. Simon of Cyrene, (which is now modern-day Libya) who helped Christ carry the cross and was a follower and disciple, was also an African. Simon’s devotion was such that both he and his two sons followed Christ (Mk. 15:21); his sons turned out to be strong and effective messengers of the Gospel and became leaders in the Church.
Other apostles travelled throughout Africa. The Apostle John Mark ministered extensively in Alexandria, Egypt, and in fact was martyred there. St. Matthew went to Ethiopia and when he arrived there, found many Ethiopian Christians. During this period, Christianity developed in Egypt, Nubia, Sudan and Ethiopia.
After the bloody period of persecution during 203 A.D. - 313 A.D., the African Church began the monastic movement known throughout the world today. The African Church is also credited with the establishment of the first catechetical school (in Alexandria) and, after Saint Athnaisus’ skillful defense of the Orthodox faith in front of the first Ecumenical Council, the formulation of the Nicene Creed (“We believe in one God, the Father Almighty”).
There were many other Africans who were disciples, teachers and prophets of early Christianity. Symeon, called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene were both prophets in the Antiochian Church. And as many remember, Philip was called by divine intervention to meet the Ethiopian eunuch, who himself was a man of great statuture: he was the finance minister under Queen Candace of Ethiopia.
Indeed, whatever they may have been called, Africans, Hammites, Canaanites, Cushites, or even Semites, black Africans were a part of Christianity from its very beginning and played a spiritual role in spreading the Word.
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zerinus
Guest
I see a total logical disconnect between what you are saying and Mormon reality—or any other kind of reality. You create your own false premises, and draw your own false conclusions from those false premises that have no basis in reality in Mormonism, or outside of Mormonism. To put it more simply, I haven’t a clue what you are talking about.
zerinus
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scipio337
Guest
I take it your unfamiliar with the Journal of Discourses? You might give it some attention.
Check out Volume 7, around page 280.
patriot.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/browse.php?CISOROOT=%2FJournalOfDiscourses3
Or maybe Moses 7: 8, 12, & 22 and Abraham 1:21-27.
Denial: It ain’t just a river in Egypt!
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ralphinal
Guest
Let me try again. If there is no reason in traditional LDS thought to associate skin tone with holiness, and there should not be based on the fact that Jesus did not look like a Norseman, then you can say that everything that BY said and the rules that he imposed were the by-products of a racist man with a racist up-bringing. It took a man willing to stand up to what had become institutionalised by the 1970s and change it.
If, however, traditional LDS thought says that only fair skinned people are holy, then Jesus had to be as white as snow, and this is not possible. Jesus would have looked like the rest of his countrymen. Therefore, the whole religion must be made up, as God could not have missed this fact.
So you are left with a choice of a God-made religion corrupted by men or a man made religion.
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zerinus
Guest
I still don’t know what you are talking about. You are not saying anythig that I as a Mormon can relate to. Try again.
zerinus
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ralphinal
Guest
Did BY introduce racist doctrine into your faith?
If so, can this doctrine be defended by an understanding that holy people are fair skinned?
If so, would this require Jesus to be light skinned?
Let’s just start there.
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zerinus
Guest
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ralphinal
Guest
Actually, it is a good start. A much better start that we’ve had on this topic yet.
So, BY did not introduce racist doctrine into the LDS. Was it because he did not introduce the doctrine that blacks were not worthy for the priesthood or was it because that is not racist?
Z
zerinus
Guest
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