Black Business Owner in Minneapolis Pleads for Help After Life’s Work is Destroyed by Rioting Mob

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StudentMI said:
Perhaps. Let me ask you this, does this level of chaos contribute to the common good?
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I have not said it does; just the opposite. I have said it’s an indication of something very wrong that needs addressing in a bigger way than pointing fingers at the violent ones.
 
Rubee said:
I have said it’s an indication of something very wrong that needs addressing in a bigger way than pointing fingers at the violent ones.
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The common good absolutely needs to point fingers at the violent ones. When society dissolves into chaos, the common good can’t be protected or sustained. Those perpetuating it need to be held accountable.
 
Let me put it this way; If there’s a pathology in a family and one child is acting erratically, isn’t it better to address the general conditions of that pathology than just look at the kid whose reaction is most extreme?
 
Rubee said:
Let me put it this way; If there’s a pathology in a family and one child is acting erratically, isn’t it better to address the general conditions of that pathology than just look at the kid whose reaction is most extreme?
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You can address both. I would say you must address both.
 
Rubee said:
Then we don’t disagree.
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No I guess we don’t. However…

When the death happened, I like everyone I know thought the same thing: that’s terrible. The cop should be charged. But then the crap throwing started. White people are racist! We demand justice! Down with the system! Then someone broke a window, inevitably. Even that poster up above gloated in another thread about confronting a cop with a group of people, cornering him if I remember right, and gleefully saying he ran away ‘like a coward.’ Is this going to end well? They also dreamt up some crazy, ridiculous idea about replacing cops in their area with local citizen patrols that have the power of force to settle disputes. Is this protecting the common good?
 
StudentMI said:
When the death happened, I like everyone I know thought the same thing: that’s terrible. The cop should be charged. But then the crap throwing started. White people are racist! We demand justice! Down with the system! Then someone broke a window, inevitably. Even that poster up above gloated in another thread about confronting a cop with a group of people, cornering him if I remember right, and gleefully saying he ran away ‘like a coward.’ Is this going to end well? They also dreamt up some crazy, ridiculous idea about replacing cops in their area with local citizen patrols that have the power of force to settle disputes. Is this protecting the common good?
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It sounds like you’re personally directly affected by the current chaos; I’m not going to come here and make light of your situation. As I indicated to another person, I have been in a similar situation (not directly affected but family was), so I do know there are no winners in chaos. However I know dismissing the other side only escalates things. That is not good in the long run either. These things need multiple levels of redress, from stopping violent actors to dealing SERIOUSLY with the environment that creates people like this officer. I read that the British police had similar problems in the 80s (or 70s) and after wide-scale reforms, those problems have drastically gone down. Americans really should consider reforming their entire policing system.
 
Rubee said:
I haven’t but it makes sense. It seems things have become more violent in policing.
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They’re trained like paramilitary squads. They’re trained not to see the community as something to protect but as occupied territory.
 
Sometimes, and you may not like this, jail is the place where there is time to reflect and then talk,
Not always desirable but necessary…
We are all human, we all have failed in one way or other to be present to our sons or daughters or they have joined the wrong crowd or many reasons, but so as to restore some sense , there has to be a limit when it wasn’t there long before.
And by the same token, brothers and sisters ready to open the arms and hearts to listen and pray and help there as well.
Somewhere along the way we were not there. As parents, as family, as friends, as a community, as a society…
It hurts.
We all belong and deserve peace.
 
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StudentMI said:
They’re trained like paramilitary squads. They’re trained not to see the community as something to protect but as occupied territory.
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It’s funny because this is the language I’ve heard describing the police by the people speaking on TV about it; that they feel “occupied.” It’s quite sad.
 
Rubee said:
It’s funny because this is the language I’ve heard describing the police by the people speaking on TV about it; that they feel “occupied.” It’s quite sad.
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I’ve always liked the approach of Alexander Cockburn to such issues. He wrote an essay or something, I read it years ago, about the militia movement and how the left should ally with them to oppose the police state. The language I used regarding the police, which the protestors used, it’s the same thing militia movements were saying in the 90s after Ruby Ridge and Waco. Talk about a missed opportunity.
 
Those were white people butchered for the crime of having right wing views. They do not count in the current narrative.
 
WingedHussar said:
Those were white people butchered for the crime of having right wing views. They do not count in the current narrative.
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Exactly. A Democrat was in office, and the left (the real left, not pansy liberals) were hoodwinked by horror stories of scary racist white people with guns. Nevermind the fact the Michigan Militia, for one, had a Jewish subgroup.
 
If you haven’t yet I highly recommend Gore Vidal’s essay on Timothy McVeigh. It puts a lot of things in perspective. But I could go on all day about the OKC bombing. Anyway…
 
graciew said:
I just come back ‘ cause you left me thinking…
As controversial as it may be, in the best interest of the children, why do you have to pick the variable of race?
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Ideally one would have multiple variables, not only race. Income level, zip code/residential location, the marital status of the child’s parents, and the educational level of the student’s parents might by some other statistically significant variables.

There are some correlations among these variables. The education level and the income level of the parents are not entirely unrelated. There are correlations between race and income too.

Part of the reason that race is significant is that educational opportunities could vary along race lines. This can happen for reasons both intentional and unintentional. The effects can have effects on not only the student but the offspring of a child (ex:a parent that did not do well in math might not be in a position to help his child with math homework). There are other ways that these factors interact with each other.
graciew said:
It wouldn’t harm to give a different approach, some different light a try. Without race form filling…for some time at least?
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Different approaches could be persued irrespective of whether or not this data point is gathered. Information gathering would not interfere with different approaches. The data scientist within me sees temporary suspension of information collection as a loss since it creates blind spots in historical data.

Also the information is used for detecting trends often over time actions taken on the data are going to be much slower. Some of the points of evaluation that you’ve raised are more helpful for immediate responses to individual students.

Consider health data. Reacting to an individual person’s vitals are helpful for that one person. Collecting health data from lots of people over time will probably be of little to no benefit to the people from which it was collected, but the detection of trends may be helpful to people in the future. Ex: the maximum recomended intake of sodium for African-American’s is lower because of higher correlations to hypertension/blood pressure problems. Waiting until after a problem occurs to react to it may be too late.
 
graciew said:
Is learning being meaningful for this child?
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Not directly related to learning style, but in remember talking to someone from “Teach For America.” The specialize in getting teachers placed at schools that are in need of them. One of the things that they were telling some teachers was on difference in communication patterns in black and white homes. In white homes a child was more likely to receive a command in the form of a request (ex: “wouldn’t you like to clean up your toys?”), while in a black home the command would be in the form of an imperative statement (ex: “clean up your toys”). In school this could play out as apparent disobedience.

A teacher might believe she has told a student to do something while a student sees the interaction as one in which an option, not a command was presented. The student issuing a “no” in response to the command-as-a-request wasn’t necessarily defiance. It was a answer to the literal question asked.
 
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