Boy Scouts Expected to End Ban on Gay Leaders

[jtauke]

I am not implying, but stating outright that you cannot know what is in the heads of anyone, but at the very least you KNOW that there is same sex attraction common to all homosexuals. Some gays would NEVER molest anyone. But, any prudent parent wouldn’t take a risk putting his own son in a potentally devastating situation. :ehh:

So we should trust no one then? That strikes me as extremely jaded.

 

[RACJ]

So you’re claiming your premise is true, even though you yourself admit there’s no overwhelming evidence?

I’ll admit there’s probably some homosexual pedophiles, simply by the law of averages there has to be some, but to say it’s a majority, that’s just intellectually dishonest.

J, don’t you find it suspicious that we never hear about how many boys, as opposed to girls, are molested? I do. On the internet, you can find all kinds of stats, and maybe someone knows where to find these specific stats, but what I heard years ago was a statement of someone on the radio who had worked at Riker’s Island. He should know!

 

[RACJ]

So we should trust no one then? That strikes me as extremely jaded.

I think we must be guarded, yes. Many people mask their perversions well. The world is as it is, not how we think that it should be. You can see healthy adults in the eyes of their happy, loving children, and I trust them before anyone else.

 

[jtauke]

J, don’t you find it suspicious that we never hear about how many boys, as opposed to girls, are molested? I do. On the internet, you can find all kinds of stats, and maybe someone knows where to find these specific stats, but what I heard years ago was a statement of someone on the radio who had worked at Riker’s Island. He should know!

So it’s a conspiracy now? Come on

As to your last statement there’s two major problems:

1.) It’s hearsay. There’s a reason information like this isn’t admissible in court. It’s inherently unreliable.

2.) It’s anecdotal. One prison worker in one prison, in one city, in one state…etc…etc. It’s not a big enough sample size to draw a conclusion without extrapolation. If you ever took a statistics class in college, you’ll know that extrapolation is bad.

 

[gracepoole]

There is good reason the crucifix is a symbol of Christianity, rather than the whip. Wouldn’t you agree?

And actually, the first symbols of Christianity were the lamb and the fish – totally passive, non-aggressive images that were completely free of violence. It’s worth folks’ time to investigate how and when a symbol of violence (the crucifix) became more popular…

Did I say that? NO! But I still say that any parent who allows his or her kid to camp overnight with a homosexual scoutmaster is a fool.

This **is **the same as claiming that young boys are more in danger of being victims of pedophilia with homosexual leaders than heterosexual leaders. Just own the claim you’re making.

 

[jtauke]

I think we must be guarded, yes. Many people mask their perversions well. The world is as it is, not how we think that it should be. You can see healthy adults in the eyes of their happy, loving children, and I trust them before anyone else.

Shucks, guess I need to have a kid to be trustworthy. Check back about a year after I’m married in Nov 2016.

 

[josie_L]

I think we must be guarded, yes. Many people mask their perversions well. The world is as it is, not how we think that it should be. You can see healthy adults in the eyes of their happy, loving children, and I trust them before anyone else.

But if people mask their perversions, then it would be very difficult to decipher who is or isn’t, moreover, many people who are/were sexually abusing minors were trusted members of the community (that’s how they were able to do the things they did).

p.s. And as I stated before, there were already gay leaders in the Boy Scouts, hence, all they really did is put into theory what was already in practice.

 

[RACJ]

But if people mask their perversions, then it would be very difficult to decipher who is or isn’t, moreover, many people who are/were sexually abusing minors were trusted members of the community (that’s how they were able to do the things they did). p.s. And as I stated before, there were already gay leaders in the Boy Scouts, hence, all they really did is put into theory what was already in practice.

So let’s all pretend that gay men, who have no children of their own, (thus, none of the boys are theirs!) are NO MORE LIKELY than anyone else to commit acts of perversion against young boys. Profiling is just good common sense. I wish that your version of reality was real, but I would not risk my own son to test it.

 

[RACJ]

Shucks, guess I need to have a kid to be trustworthy. Check back about a year after I’m married in Nov 2016.

Congrats on your upcoming nuptials!

 

[RACJ]

This **is **the same as claiming that young boys are more in danger of being victims of pedophilia with homosexual leaders than heterosexual leaders. Just own the claim you’re making.

Grace, I AM saying that, as a rule, those men with opposite sex attraction leading young boys are MUCH less likely to molest a boy than those with SSA. Of course!
At my church, NO man can watch the nursert during services without his wife being present with him. Simple sound policy. As a straight guy, I am not offended.

 

[DrTaffy]

So let’s all pretend that gay men, who have no children of their own, (thus, none of the boys are theirs!) are NO MORE LIKELY than anyone else to commit acts of perversion against young boys. Profiling is just good common sense. I wish that your version of reality was real, but I would not risk my own son to test it.

Many gay men have children of their own. And yes, study after study has shown that they are no more likely than heterosexuals to be paedophiles.

Indeed the Catholic Church’s own Jay report showed that if anything it is those with strong anti gay views who are more likely to offend against children.

 

[gracepoole]

Grace, I AM saying that, as a rule, those men with opposite sex attraction leading young boys are MUCH less likely to molest a boy than those with SSA. Of course!

You seem to assume that this is just common sense when it really isn’t. Instead, it’s a faulty stereotype. Pedophilia isn’t inherently linked with homosexuality, as you seem to claim here.

 

[pnewton]

Grace, I AM saying that, as a rule, those men with opposite sex attraction leading young boys are MUCH less likely to molest a boy than those with SSA. Of course!

I do not get the objection to this logic. It is not picking on homosexuals more than heterosexuals. The mirror to this, which I think most of us also see, is that heterosexual men, if they were in charge of teen and preteen girls would also present more of a threat than a homosexual male in the same situation.

Also, this whole idea that sexual orientation is fixed and inherent belies the very nature of lust, as in the sin of lust, which is not fixed and open to find expressions in new avenues, as Satan and his minions manipulate each and every one of us. This is why we pretty much never disagree that pornography and sexual misconduct are linked.

 

[pnewton]

A
“Stuart Upton, a lawyer for the LGBT-rights group Lambda Legal, questioned whether the BSA’s new policy to let church-sponsored units continue to exclude gay adults would be sustainable.”

There is no gay agenda? This gay rights group is not satisfied until Church’s renounce sound doctrine. In light of this, it should be clear who is behind this movement.

 

[pnewton]

I’m sorry if me having different beliefs bothers others. We are all entitled to believe what we want though.

While this is true, there are limits to which our beliefs become true, and in the case of doctrine, orthodox or heresy.

 

[Dawnia]

J, don’t you find it suspicious that we never hear about how many boys, as opposed to girls, are molested? I do. On the internet, you can find all kinds of stats, and maybe someone knows where to find these specific stats, but what I heard years ago was a statement of someone on the radio who had worked at Riker’s Island. He should know!

Victim stats are available. Girls are molested far more than boys.

Part of the problem with trying to pigeon hole people into boxes based on attraction is that people have sex for reasons other than attraction (power, money, self-gratification, intoxicated, high, etc.)

 

[RACJ]

You seem to assume that this is just common sense when it really isn’t. Instead, it’s a faulty stereotype. Pedophilia isn’t inherently linked with homosexuality, as you seem to claim here.

Grace, I do not accept conventional “wisdom” about homosexuality. I have already stated that I know that most homosexuals are not child predators. But no matter what the new PC thinking is, homosexuality remains a disorder. It is NOT natural. But, gay attraction is not now, nor has it ever been my concern, EXCEPT when children are involved.

 

[gracepoole]

I do not get the objection to this logic. It is not picking on homosexuals more than heterosexuals. The mirror to this, which I think most of us also see, is that heterosexual men, if they were in charge of teen and preteen girls would also present more of a threat than a homosexual male in the same situation.

The problem here is that it’s assumed one’s attraction to a specific gender crosses over into being attracted to a specific gender in youth. This happens when one is a pedophile – which is a sexual disorder – not when one is heterosexual or homosexual. And pedophilia is not inherently present in homosexuals more than in heterosexuals.

 

[pnewton]

I was comparing the often polite, polished and frail responses of modern Western Roman Catholic clerics with the often frank and firm tone of Orthodox leaders.

The frankly disappointing response of the NCCS really just drives it home for me.

I see. I guess I like the response. It balances the good of scouting with the problem this decision causes. The Catholic Church has a long history of being able do single out just the bad while acknowledging the good by the use of careful language.

It’s worth remembering that the only tool Jesus is recorded as making was a whip.

As a carpenter, I think Jesus would have had familiarity with a variety of tools, making the recording of his use of a whip a rather irrelevant point. Since the whip is being used as an analogy of dealing roughly with sinners, it should also be noted, that he had many “tools” in his bag, and whipping was not his most common response to sinners.

 

[JimG]

Grace, I do not accept conventional “wisdom” about homosexuality. I have already stated that I know that most homosexuals are not child predators. But no matter what the new PC thinking is, homosexuality remains a disorder. It is NOT natural. But, gay attraction is not now, nor has it ever been my concern, EXCEPT when children are involved.

Perhaps the concern is not so much with pedophilia as with pederasty.