Boy Scouts - Gay acceptance

[CopticChristian]

I don’t understand what you are trying to say here

God created man male and female, how they feel or act doesn’t change that. In Catholic theology gay or straight a male is a male is a male, psychology agrees, gay or straight a male is a male is a male.

God created man male and female…

Male and Female He created them

how they feel or act doesn’t change that.

Male/female with SSA=male and female
male/female with SSA acting homosexual=male and female

Catholic theology gay or straight a male is a male is a male, psychology agrees, gay or straight a male is a male is a male.

male/female with SSA, acting homosexual, accepting their identity as gay=male and female He created them

You have essentially confirmed what I routinely state to be my understanding of the entire issue as it regards Male and Female he created them. We are not our thoughts, we are not our behavior and you have agreed and confirmed that Essentialism=born that way is a lie.

You did well:thumbsup:

 

[Miss_Primrose]

Yes and why shouldn’t a nice guy like Jerry Sandusky who obviously loves mentoring young people not be allowed to have boys stay overnight at his home?

Are you kidding? The problem with adding a sexual component to a fraternal organization is obvious. Sexuality has NOTHING TO DO WITH BOY SCOUTS. Sexuality, sexual practices, sexual orientation has NOTHING TO DO WITH BOY SCOUTS. The majority of boys in scouting are not even through puberty. They do not need the added dimension of wondering if their leader or the scout in the sleeping bag next to them is going to make a sexual advance.

Would you want adult males camping with young girls? Even if they are “Christian” and “celibate?” We have had problems with PRIESTS abusing youth for heaven’s sake. There is a predatory nature in some adults and they often manage to get themselves into situations where they have contact and in fact close relationships with young people…IN ORDER TO PREY UPON THEM. We see this with coaches, youth leaders of various organizations, sadly even in volunteers for youth centers and even worse in our state a state official who “fostered” young men only to abuse them, one to the point of suicide.

This is MADNESS

Lisa

Abuse happens in all situations, by lots of different people, hetrosexual men can do this as well as a homosexual man could, abuse is not connected to a certain gender or sexual preference, however I can see you point in putting temptation in there way which I admit I hadn’t thought of.

Baden Powell in Britian founded an organization that the BSA used to model their organization. You may want to research the contribution of England into the BSA. I suggest that prior to suggesting “why all the fuss”…you read about the fuss prior to rendering what you believe to be advice.

Do you swim when you do not know how deep the water is?

Do you travel somewhere without knowing how to get there?

Do you eat things in the forest without knowledge if they are poison?

Is your…:twocents: often thrown around without thinking where you are throwing it?

This is CAF…I see you are Anglican wanting to be Catholic…this is a site for explanation and defense of the Faith…so I may be of an aid to your quest, allow me to suggest a reformulation of your posting…

“I am Anglican, wanting to be Catholic, my initial thoughts are not clear as to what the problem is, prior to venturing into a discussion absent adequate information to be helpful, can someone explain to me why this is a problem prior to my suggesting I don’t see the problem…”

I am sorry you think this, I explained from the first about my lack of information and I obviously should have kept my mouth shut, thank you, both of you for pointing this out so nicely and respectfully it makes me wonder where the Christian tolerance is? could you nt have just ignored my post if you felt so strongly?

 

[andrewstx]

Andrew,

I understand your concern however the actions are blurred when a pedophile is exlusively male oriented in prey. Some homosexuals are pedophile. Some pedophiles are homosexual. Not all homosexuals are pedophile. Not all pedophiles are homosexual.

True

 

[CopticChristian]

Abuse happens in all situations, by lots of different people, hetrosexual men can do this as well as a homosexual man could, abuse is not connected to a certain gender or sexual preference, however I can see you point in putting temptation in there way which I admit I hadn’t thought of.

I am sorry you think this, I explained from the first about my lack of information and I obviously should have kept my mouth shut, thank you, both of you for pointing this out so nicely and respectfully it makes me wonder where the Christian tolerance is? could you nt have just ignored my post if you felt so strongly?

Miss P,

You have 30 posts here. You have learned something. This forum, for the most part, takes most issues seriously. I believe that as you post in the future you will think out what you choose to say prior to posting or not. Your choice. What you do will be the determinant of the responses you get.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Male and Female He created them

Male/female with SSA=male and female
male/female with SSA acting homosexual=male and female

male/female with SSA, acting homosexual, accepting their identity as gay=male and female He created them

You have essentially confirmed what I routinely state to be my understanding of the entire issue as it regards Male and Female he created them. We are not our thoughts, we are not our behavior and you have agreed and confirmed that Essentialism=born that way is a lie.

You did well:thumbsup:

Even operating under the assumption that sexual orientation is the result of genetics or hormones in the womb a male is still a male and a female is still a female, sexuality does not affect one’s sex.

 

[CopticChristian]

Even operating under the assumption that sexual orientation is the result of genetics or hormones in the womb a male is still a male and a female is still a female, sexuality does not affect one’s sex.

DR,

There is no solid consensus on the genetics or hormone influences as yet are there?

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

DR,

There is no solid consensus on the genetics or hormone influences as yet are there?

Notice how I said “Even operating under the assumption that sexual orientation is the result of genetics or hormones in the womb…”. It was a hypothetical as we do not have sufficient data regarding the etiology to conclusively prove that it is monocausal in origin or to what that single cause is. The whole premise that there is a sole cause very well might be fundamentally flawed however we don’t have enough data to know that.

 

[CopticChristian]

Notice how I said “Even operating under the assumption that sexual orientation is the result of genetics or hormones in the womb…”. It was a hypothetical as we do not have sufficient data regarding the etiology to conclusively prove that it is monocausal.

Thank you, so for the purpose of reality and “truth in lending” it is not even worth considering because it creates controversy and helps nothing.

 

[LaSainte]

Statistically, homosexuals are no more likely to sexually abuse children than heterosexuals.

As far as “not putting temptation in their way”, why don’t we just ban all male altar servers so that priests with SSA aren’t “tempted”? While we are at it, why not ban all male teachers at schools for girls, especially boarding schools. We should also ban all male coaches who coach girls gymnastics, softball, etc. Piano teachers too. And nannies/babysitters. Are you starting to see how ridiculous this is becoming? There will ALWAYS be people who are in authority over children who happen to be of the same sex that they are attracted to. A person who wants to have sex with kids will try to have sex with kids, gay or straight.

Also, I don’t think anyone is “sexualizing” the Boy Scouts any more than allowing gays to serve in the military is “sexualizing” the military. It’s just letting people know that they don’t have to cover up their sexuality, that they can say “my boyfriend” without having to worry about getting run out of the scouts on a rail. Seriously, that is IT.

And why would a gay man want to be a scout leader? Maybe because he grew up as a scout, loved it, and wants to continue doing it and helping kids at the same time. Pretty much the exact same reason people become gymnastics coaches, wrestling coaches and music teachers.

Goodness people. If a gay man wanted to rape little boys in the scouts, he would probably start by NOT being openly gay so that nobody would ever suspect him. The openly gay guys with boyfriends are the LAST people you have to worry about molesting your children. That too-nice father of three who takes a special interest in your child and wants to take him to a baseball game? There’s your child-rapist right there.

 

[Jessie5000]

Iam pleased as punch these kids are welcomed into the Boy Scouts. We should welcome all people into our church and groups. We are to be an inclusive church.

I say it is better to welcome gays, lesbians…rather than attack them, promote hatred and alienate them.

 

[buffalo]

Statistically, homosexuals are no more likely to sexually abuse children than heterosexuals.

As far as “not putting temptation in their way”, why don’t we just ban all male altar servers so that priests with SSA aren’t “tempted”? While we are at it, why not ban all male teachers at schools for girls, especially boarding schools. We should also ban all male coaches who coach girls gymnastics, softball, etc. Piano teachers too. And nannies/babysitters. Are you starting to see how ridiculous this is becoming? There will ALWAYS be people who are in authority over children who happen to be of the same sex that they are attracted to. A person who wants to have sex with kids will try to have sex with kids, gay or straight.

Also, I don’t think anyone is “sexualizing” the Boy Scouts any more than allowing gays to serve in the military is “sexualizing” the military. It’s just letting people know that they don’t have to cover up their sexuality, that they can say “my boyfriend” without having to worry about getting run out of the scouts on a rail. Seriously, that is IT.

And why would a gay man want to be a scout leader? Maybe because he grew up as a scout, loved it, and wants to continue doing it and helping kids at the same time. Pretty much the exact same reason people become gymnastics coaches, wrestling coaches and music teachers.

Goodness people. If a gay man wanted to rape little boys in the scouts, he would probably start by NOT being openly gay so that nobody would ever suspect him. The openly gay guys with boyfriends are the LAST people you have to worry about molesting your children. That too-nice father of three who takes a special interest in your child and wants to take him to a baseball game? There’s your child-rapist right there.

Hmmmm - sources?

 

[buffalo]

Iam pleased as punch these kids are welcomed into the Boy Scouts. We should welcome all people into our church and groups. We are to be an inclusive church.

I say it is better to welcome gays, lesbians…rather than attack them, promote hatred and alienate them.

You do not realize the danger to the child that believes he is homosexual? For most children it is fleeting and soon normalizes.

 

[CopticChristian]

You do not realize the danger to the child that believes he is homosexual? For most children it is fleeting and soon normalizes.

I would imagine that the LGBT, look at this, knowing that NARTH is on hold pending the California case and who knows if this BSA change in policy may or may not be related to that.

 

[edwest2]

DR,

There is no solid consensus on the genetics or hormone influences as yet are there?

No.

Ed

 

[edwest2]

Notice how I said “Even operating under the assumption that sexual orientation is the result of genetics or hormones in the womb…”. It was a hypothetical as we do not have sufficient data regarding the etiology to conclusively prove that it is monocausal in origin or to what that single cause is. The whole premise that there is a sole cause very well might be fundamentally flawed however we don’t have enough data to know that.

The gay organizations who forced this change are for gay sex. Who decides when you have sex? You. And there is every reason to believe that continuing to promote gay sex among scouts will be the same as it already is in public schools.

Peace,
Ed

 

[LaSainte]

Hmmmm - sources?

m.dailykos.com/story/2010/09/18/903178/-Gays-are-pedophiles-No-Here-s-the-proof

Here’s an interesting excerpt from the article:
The US Catholic Bishops commissioned a study on priestly child sex abuse from John Jay College. John Jay researcher Margaret Smith reported back to the Bishops on early findings from their study. From the USA Today:

We do not find a connection between homosexual identity and the increased likelihood of subsequent abuse from the data that we have right now … It’s important to separate the sexual identity and the behavior. Someone can commit sexual acts that might be of a homosexual nature but not have a homosexual identity.

Seems even the Church knows how ridiculous the idea that gays are more likely to molest kids is.

 

[edwest2]

Iam pleased as punch these kids are welcomed into the Boy Scouts. We should welcome all people into our church and groups. We are to be an inclusive church.

I say it is better to welcome gays, lesbians…rather than attack them, promote hatred and alienate them.

And who, in the scouts, was doing that before? This is a wrong move because sexuality should never be a part of scouting. Do you think there were no gay scouts in the past?

Peace,
Ed

 

[buffalo]

m.dailykos.com/story/2010/09/18/903178/-Gays-are-pedophiles-No-Here-s-the-proof

Here’s an interesting excerpt from the article:
The US Catholic Bishops commissioned a study on priestly child sex abuse from John Jay College. John Jay researcher Margaret Smith reported back to the Bishops on early findings from their study. From the USA Today:

We do not find a connection between homosexual identity and the increased likelihood of subsequent abuse from the data that we have right now … It’s important to separate the sexual identity and the behavior. Someone can commit sexual acts that might be of a homosexual nature but not have a homosexual identity.

Seems even the Church knows how ridiculous the idea that gays are more likely to molest kids is.

Yes - I was completely confused by this statement. It is inconsistent with the data.

However, you can see the John Jay Study yourself. In it you will find that the majority of cases was an adult male preying on a post-pubescent male. That is a homosexual act.

One is not a same sex attraction (identity). One experiences same sex attraction. It is always a choice to act on it. Is you claim one is powerless to not act on it?

 

[buffalo]

And who, in the scouts, was doing that before? This is a wrong move because sexuality should never be a part of scouting. Do you think there were no gay scouts in the past?

Peace,
Ed

Boy Scouts have always tried to form a boys masculinity in a “duty to God” way. Living clean and morally straight (at least when I was a scout) meant chastity before and after marriage.

 

[LaSainte]

Yes - I was completely confused by this statement. It is inconsistent with the data.

However, you can see the John Jay Study yourself. In it you will find that the majority of cases was an adult male preying on a post-pubescent male. That is a homosexual act.

One is not a same sex attraction (identity). One experiences same sex attraction. It is always a choice to act on it. Is you claim one is powerless to not act on it?

Ummm noooooo? I was merely pointing out that statistically speaking, gays are no more likely to molest children than straight people. The evidence backs that up, and studies indicating otherwise have been shown to be flawed.