Boy Scouts to allow gay youths to join

[Hmgbrd]

Interesting you mention this.

Having had a few years of experience as a 7th grade CCD teacher, I’ve had to confront some interesting situations.

When I teach my kids that marriage is for life and that those who divorce and remarry are committing adultery against their first spouse…unless that first marriage was declared invalid by the Church…I have, on multiple occasions, had angry parents excoriate me because I just told Johnny or Susie that his/her parents were living in sin.

My response to them: well? are you? (It goes into a little more detail…but that is the bottom line)

When I teach my kids about homosexuality, again, I have, on more than one occasion, had parents yell at me. I teach EXACTLY what the Church teaches (read the 1975, 1986, 1992, and 2003 issuances from the CDF to understand Church teaching…btw)

If a lesbian mother come up to me and scream (shrilly, gave me a headache) at me because, in teaching what the Church teaches about homosexuality, I have told her daughter that she is living in an immoral situation…“how dare you, you misogynist homophobe”

(I handed her a copy of my detailed lesson plan and told her if she could find where an item mentioned in my lesson plan was not in strict accord with Church teaching, I would quit teaching. I’m still there.)

The tendency is to soft-pedal the tough moral issues because we don’t want to offend those who are living at variance with Church teachings. The trouble with this approach is that we then end up with people who think they are good Catholics but who are either ignorant of Church teachings on moral issues or think that those moral teachings are optional.

And this, primarily, is my concern with the Boy Scout decision: I’m not concerned that one 12 year old is going to be a predator with an 8 year old. Please.

I am concerned that they will be required to positively reinforce homosexuality as being morally good and desirable.

As the CDF said back in 1986:
There is an effort in some countries to manipulate the Church by gaining the often well-intentioned support of her pastors with a view to changing civil-statutes and laws. This is done in order to conform to these pressure groups’ concept that homosexuality is at least a completely harmless, if not an entirely good, thing. Even when the practice of homosexuality may seriously threaten the lives and well-being of a large number of people, its advocates remain undeterred and refuse to consider the magnitude of the risks involved.

The Church can never be so callous. It is true that her clear position cannot be revised by pressure from civil legislation or the trend of the moment. But she is really concerned about the many who are not represented by the pro-homosexual movement and about those who may have been tempted to believe its deceitful propaganda. She is also aware that the view that homosexual activity is equivalent to, or as acceptable as, the sexual expression of conjugal love has a direct impact on society’s understanding of the nature and rights of the family and puts them in jeopardy.
No, I know they don’t do that now. But give it a few years. The camel has his nose under the tent now. It’s only a matter of time.

I agree

 

[Ridgerunner]

Hard to know just how this will affect the scouts in the longer term.

Having once been a young boy and a young man, having raised a son and now having several grandsons, my guess is that this is the end of the scouts.

No boy or young man wants to identify with a group that other boys or young men will consider a “gay group”, unless they, too, are homosexual.

 

[BroomWagon]

Christian Service Brigade

Is an alternative but who wants to have to seek out alternatives when Boy Scouts has had such a positive effect on America?

 

[fix]

Hard to know just how this will affect the scouts in the longer term.

Having once been a young boy and a young man, having raised a son and now having several grandsons, my guess is that this is the end of the scouts.

No boy or young man wants to identify with a group that other boys or young men will consider a “gay group”, unless they, too, are homosexual.

Not only that but it is now de rigueur that young boys can self identify as
“gay” as if this is true and unchangeable. That this absurd notion is seen as scientific and emotionally good is beyond troubling. This is proof the “gay” agenda has won.

 

[StJudeprayforme]

Hard to know just how this will affect the scouts in the longer term.

Having once been a young boy and a young man, having raised a son and now having several grandsons, my guess is that this is the end of the scouts.

No boy or young man wants to identify with a group that other boys or young men will consider a “gay group”, unless they, too, are homosexual.

Kids these days are becoming increasingly more tolerant and less homophobic. Kids of twelve won’t know enough to care, and the sixteen year olds who are already in the scouts when they come out will have already established relationships with their peers in the troop. This will be a non-issue, and is a great step forward in the Church’s call to end unjust discrimination against those with homosexual tendencies.

 

[Teen4Christ]

Hey non-Catholics, why don’t you get the **** out of our forum and go preach your evil drivel somewhere else?

Such christian charity.

This thread is a perfect example of why religion is growing such a negative stigma in todays society. Some responses go well beyond disagreement with differing aspects of the world that go against what catholicism teaches, and simply dwell in hatred and anger.

Would Christ approve?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Not only that but it is now de rigueur that young boys can self identify as
“gay” as if this is true and unchangeable. That this absurd notion is seen as scientific and emotionally good is beyond troubling. This is proof the “gay” agenda has won.

I don’t think it has “won” overall. It has simply turned the boy scouts into a homosexual organization and, by having done it, have destroyed it.

 

[StJudeprayforme]

Not only that but it is now de rigueur that young boys can self identify as
“gay” as if this is true and unchangeable. That this absurd notion is seen as scientific and emotionally good is beyond troubling. This is proof the “gay” agenda has won.

I do think it a bit silly that young teens and even pre-teens are coming out (some before puberty even starts!). At that ages, I think that many of them are more confused than anything. That being said, when someone is sixteen or seventeen, they can generally figure out which way they lean.

 

[BroomWagon]

Kids these days are becoming increasingly more tolerant and less homophobic. Kids of twelve won’t know enough to care, and the sixteen year olds who are already in the scouts when they come out will have already established relationships with their peers in the troop. This will be a non-issue, and is a great step forward in the Church’s call to end unjust discrimination against those with homosexual tendencies.

If there is not much effect, I believe it is because actually there are so few homosexuals, most Scout troops will not be effected, those who might be homosexual won’t proclaim it in most other cases. Then, there might be a few cases where this causes a stir. So I think it will be like the proverbial needle in a haystack.

 

[gracepoole]

How condescending and arrogant of you.

The Cathecism and TRUTH of Holy Mother Church is non-negotiable.

I can also say I will pray for YOU.

It’s condescending and arrogant to tell you I’ll pray for you?

(pause)

Um, okay…

 

[ringil]

Uh - this is about the protection and rights of children.

The “right” to not be around gay people and the “protection” from those gay people?

 

[gracepoole]

That’ s pretty much what disent is. Dissenters may not have evil intent themselves but they are tools of the evil one, for sure.

A new oxymoron – “loyal dissent”.

It’s actually not new. There are many Catholics who have previously written about loyal dissent. Of course, do recognize that you’ve placed those who disagree in an impossible position by immediately labeling them as “tools of the evil one.” That seems like a really convenient dodge. It also sounds really Protestant.

 

[ringil]

That is not correct. Most gay men seek other gay men who are relatively the same age. They do NOT, as a rule, abuse young boys. Men who do that suffer from pedophilia, and they come in both straight and gay varieties.

Indeed, pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder and this tale of gay men stalking young boys is the same as the old “Jews are poisoning Christian wells,” and black men have an insatiable desire to sexually subdue white women.

It’s classic demonization of a group one disagrees with- it makes them “the other”.

 

[gracepoole]

And the Holocaust didn’t happen either.

Lost Sheep, you don’t want to go there. These two cases are not even remotely in the same league. I really, really pray that no one here actually needs to hear the litany of reasons why.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Kids these days are becoming increasingly more tolerant and less homophobic. Kids of twelve won’t know enough to care, and the sixteen year olds who are already in the scouts when they come out will have already established relationships with their peers in the troop. This will be a non-issue, and is a great step forward in the Church’s call to end unjust discrimination against those with homosexual tendencies.

I would say this shows a remarkable lack of insight into how boys and young men think.

I doubt any significant number of people in the country think homosexuals should be “discriminated” against in a civil rights sense. What people do not like is promoting and honoring what everybody with an ounce of sense (or morality) knows is a sexual perversion.

Personally, I doubt the left will ever succeed in persuading the greatest number of boys and young men that sexual perversion is normal behavior. Against a background of constant promotion of homosexuality by society, I truly believe most will continue to realize they will be persecuted in some manner if they speak in favor of normalcy, but will think what they think anyway. And it will be acknowledged among peers only.

Unfortunately, some young people who would otherwise have insisted to themselves that they conform themselves to morality and nature, will be led into experimentation with a deadly sin by all of this. Some will be corrupted beyond recall.

How did Jesus put it about scandalizing one of his little ones? Better for them that they tie a millstone around their neck and cast themselves into the sea, wasn’t it?

 

[StJudeprayforme]

If there is not much effect, I believe it is because actually there are so few homosexuals, most Scout troops will not be effected, those who might be homosexual won’t proclaim it in most other cases. Then, there might be a few cases where this causes a stir. So I think it will be like the proverbial needle in a haystack.

I have said this on other threads, but when you understand the structure of scouting, this become much less of a big deal. Boys can join Boy Scouts at 11, either directly or through a cub scout troop. At this age, there is no agenda and a good number of them won’t have even hit puberty. You aren’t going to have any gay 11 and 12-year-olds joining your troop.

The policy really is focused on the high school boys, and here it is also less of a big deal. Very few new people join scouts after they turn 14. You get a few, but overall this is pretty rare. Most of the older boys started out in cub scouts or joined when they were 12 or 13. Basically, the policy as it will be implemented is something along the lines of “If you come out when you are 16, we aren’t going to kick you out.” I think this is a good thing, because it is probably better for the emotional health of the teen, and in all honesty could help him remain in the Church.

 

[ringil]

Ah, the old “homosexuality is the same as race” bit again. It is old and no more logical than any other time this is brought up. But take your point, the majority is not always right, up until one generation ago homosexuality was never considered a right, any more that prostitution was a right or sex with children was a right. NARTH may be considered fringe now by this current generation, but they are the voice of pretty much all Christentom up until a few years back. So does their current minority voice mean they are wrong?

Mental health practice has nothing to do with Christianity. It is based on research and best practice.

If one seeks support in living a moral Christian life they should seek their pastor or some sort of unlicensed “therapist” practicing in that way.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have said this on other threads, but when you understand the structure of scouting, this become much less of a big deal. Boys can join Boy Scouts at 11, either directly or through a cub scout troop. At this age, there is no agenda and a good number of them won’t have even hit puberty. You aren’t going to have any gay 11 and 12-year-olds joining your troop.

The policy really is focused on the high school boys, and here it is also less of a big deal. Very few new people join scouts after they turn 14. You get a few, but overall this is pretty rare. Most of the older boys started out in cub scouts or joined when they were 12 or 13. Basically, the policy as it will be implemented is something along the lines of “If you come out when you are 16, we aren’t going to kick you out.” I think this is a good thing, because it is probably better for the emotional health of the teen, and in all honesty could help him remain in the Church.

Wait and see. If I had to bet, I will bet the boy scouts will become an increasingly gay organization, then die out completely.

Why, by the way, do you think it helps the emotional health of a normal teen to associate with overt homosexuals? They don’t normally do that. Nor is there any compelling reason to force them to do it.

 

[fix]

I don’t think it has “won” overall. It has simply turned the boy scouts into a homosexual organization and, by having done it, have destroyed it.

How about winning then?

 

[StJudeprayforme]

I would say this shows a remarkable lack of insight into how boys and young men think.

I’m a college-aged male who is an Eagle Scout, and have many conservative Catholic friends who are also Eagle Scouts. I work at a Scout camp, and have volunteered with middle school kids. Homophobia is on the wane in the younger generations, and this is a good thing according to Church teaching.

I doubt any significant number of people in the country think homosexuals should be “discriminated” against in a civil rights sense. What people do not like is promoting and honoring what everybody with an ounce of sense (or morality) knows is a sexual perversion.

Personally, I doubt the left will ever succeed in persuading the greatest number of boys and young men that sexual perversion is normal behavior. Against a background of constant promotion of homosexuality by society, I truly believe most will continue to realize they will be persecuted in some manner if they speak in favor of normalcy, but will think what they think anyway. And it will be acknowledged among peers only.

As someone who supports the Church’s teaching on marriage, I am afraid that you are wrong and that we will lose this fight. The younger generations honestly don’t care about this issue, or if they do care, they are on the side opposed to traditional marriage. This makes me sad, but we are currently loosing the war.

Unfortunately, some young people who would otherwise have insisted to themselves that they conform themselves to morality and nature, will be led into experimentation with a deadly sin by all of this. Some will be corrupted beyond recall.

How did Jesus put it about scandalizing one of his little ones? Better for them that they tie a millstone around their neck and cast themselves into the sea, wasn’t it?

I don’t think not kicking out a 16-year-old who has been in the troop for five years because he decides to come out will scandalize the little ones.