Boy Scouts to allow gay youths to join

[Lochias]

Yes, comparing the BSA to a drag show and saying it will be “fabulous” isn’t bigoted…

…have you ***seen ***the various gay pride demonstrations, and what goes on there? You’re being willfully blind, here.

On a similar note, denying people membership in an organization based solely on who they are attracted to, not on their actions, which should remain unknown, isn’t bigoted? Okay.

But that isn’t the root problem. By officially endorsing gay members, the BSA is also officially endorsing gay actions. It sets precedent.

If you use it as one and it catches on and is used with that specific meaning in the language, then yes, it is a word. Also, the fact that you just used it and gave it a definition is proof that it exists.

Existing doesn’t make it authentic. What you’re essentially saying is that any word can take on any meaning over time if a group of people want it to…which is exactly what the gay agenda is doing here.

You should probably stop caving in to them. Immediately would be great.

So recognizing that homosexual attraction exists and that there are some people for whom this is deep-seated is the sameas condoning it? I never knew the Catholic Church told people “What you do with other boys is a-ok.”

The Church currently doesn’t allow men who are known to be gay to be priests. What does that tell you?

 

[Bookcat]

Some thoughts.

1. Yes I was saddened by the decision.
2. Yes I think it was not the right decision.

It is for example problematic and unfair that those with same sex attractions etc will be due to the nature of the activities - at times in circumstances which will not assist their virtue but can prove contrary to such.

1. It is good that they uphold the policy regarding leaders.

"The applicant must possess the moral, educational, and emotional qualities that the Boy Scouts of America deems necessary to afford positive leadership to youth. The applicant must also be the correct age, subscribe to the precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle (duty to God), and abide by the Scout Oath and the Scout Law.

… we do not grant membership to individuals who are open or avowed homosexuals or who engage in behavior that would become a distraction to the mission of the BSA."

1. It is good that they affirm:

“Scouting is a youth program, and any sexual conduct, whether homosexual or heterosexual, by youth of Scouting age is contrary to the virtues of Scouting”

 

[StJudeprayforme]

Are you denying there is bigotry against Catholics? Are you denying that contrived political terms are not used as a cudgel?

I live in the Bible-belt. There is obviously discrimination against Catholics just as their is discrimination against homosexuals. It is generally something that happens to minority groups.

No, I am not denying that some activists use the term “homophobia” to describe things that are not homophobic or bigoted in the least. Just because the Black Panthers find racism in everything doesn’t mean that racism doesn’t exists, I don’t see why it should be any different for homophobia.

No, that is not fair at all. The policy change is politically motivated. There was no need for it. Where is this tidal wave of unjust discrimination in the BSA?

Political motivation can sometimes lead to good ends. The unjust discrimination is preventing someone from being part of an organization based solely on his sexual orientation. If the adult leaders know anything about the teen’s sex life, that is an issue. I have no idea why everyone here is assuming that the “gay scouts” are all having sex.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

There seems to a sense of hysteria that reminds me of the Salem Witch Hunt.

 

[Lochias]

There seems to a sense of hysteria that reminds me of the Salem Witch Hunt.

Well, that makes one of us.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

…have you ***seen ***the various gay pride demonstrations, and what goes on there? You’re being willfully blind, here.

But that isn’t the root problem. By officially endorsing gay members, the BSA is also officially endorsing gay actions. It sets precedent.

Existing doesn’t make it authentic. What you’re essentially saying is that any word can take on any meaning over time if a group of people want it to…which is exactly what the gay agenda is doing here.

You should probably stop caving in to them. Immediately would be great.
The Church currently doesn’t allow men who are known to be gay to be priests. What does that tell you?

I allow people who smoke to be in my home, join me for dinner, and play games and watch movies with me. I do not endorse smoking. There’s a difference.

Your whole argument that the BSA now endorses homosexuality is flawed at its roots.

 

[fix]

I live in the Bible-belt. There is obviously discrimination against Catholics just as their is discrimination against homosexuals. It is generally something that happens to minority groups.

No, I am not denying that some activists use the term “homophobia” to describe things that are not homophobic or bigoted in the least. Just because the Black Panthers find racism in everything doesn’t mean that racism doesn’t exists, I don’t see why it should be any different for homophobia.

Because with “homophobia” it is used to attack people who will not accept homosexual activity is normal. It is not the same as false racism charges because the word has no legitimate use.

Political motivation can sometimes lead to good ends. The unjust discrimination is preventing someone from being part of an organization based solely on his sexual orientation. If the adult leaders know anything about the teen’s sex life, that is an issue. I have no idea why everyone here is assuming that the “gay scouts” are all having sex.

Because the sexual activity is only one aspect of the moral problem. This is not only about sex acts but about ideology. The orientation itself can evoke moral concern as the Church teaches. Teaching, by word or example, that wrong is right is not consistent with the faith.

 

[fix]

There seems to a sense of hysteria that reminds me of the Salem Witch Hunt.

To see the truth requires us to be open to the truth. We cannot see what we refuse to see.

 

[Bookcat]

Some thoughts.

There are certainly problems with the decision (I was not in favor of the change in membership policy).

It is for example problematic and unfair that those with same sex attractions etc will be due to the nature of the activities - at times in circumstances which will not assist their virtue but can prove contrary to such.

But there is also good aspects.

It is good that they uphold the policy regarding leaders.

"The applicant must possess the moral, educational, and emotional qualities that the Boy Scouts of America deems necessary to afford positive leadership to youth. The applicant must also be the correct age, subscribe to the precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle (duty to God), and abide by the Scout Oath and the Scout Law.

… we do not grant membership to individuals who are open or avowed homosexuals or who engage in behavior that would become a distraction to the mission of the BSA."

It is good that they affirm:

“Scouting is a youth program, and any sexual conduct, whether homosexual or heterosexual, by youth of Scouting age is contrary to the virtues of Scouting”

 

[Fairwinds]

There seems to a sense of hysteria that reminds me of the Salem Witch Hunt.

you know, They are everywhere.

 

[Bookcat]

Some thoughts.

There are certainly problems with the decision (I was not in favor of the change in membership policy).

It is for example problematic and unfair that those with same sex attractions etc will be due to the nature of the activities - at times in circumstances which will not assist their virtue but can prove contrary to such.

But there is also good aspects.

It is good that they uphold the policy regarding leaders.

"The applicant must possess the moral, educational, and emotional qualities that the Boy Scouts of America deems necessary to afford positive leadership to youth. The applicant must also be the correct age, subscribe to the precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle (duty to God), and abide by the Scout Oath and the Scout Law.

… we do not grant membership to individuals who are open or avowed homosexuals or who engage in behavior that would become a distraction to the mission of the BSA."

It is good that they affirm:

“Scouting is a youth program, and any sexual conduct, whether homosexual or heterosexual, by youth of Scouting age is contrary to the virtues of Scouting”

 

[EvangelCatholic]

To see the truth requires us to be open to the truth. We cannot see what we refuse to see.

Practice what you preach, my friend. Can you look a 10 yr old boy in the eyes and tell him he is “evil” because he has homosexual tendencies? If you can then God have mercy on your soul.

 

[Just_Some_Guy]

My financial and volunteer support for the scouts has come to an end.
A sad end for yet another great institution.

 

[StJudeprayforme]

…have you ***seen ***the various gay pride demonstrations, and what goes on there? You’re being willfully blind, here.

No, I never denied that such a subset exists. Most gay people I know don’t belong to that subset. You are stereotyping. It would be like if I were to say that having an all heterosexual BSA would make it a frat party full of date-rapists. That subset exists too, but it isn’t universal.

But that isn’t the root problem. By officially endorsing gay members, the BSA is also officially endorsing gay actions. It sets precedent.

Being gay is not the same thing as having sex.

Existing doesn’t make it authentic. What you’re essentially saying is that any word can take on any meaning over time if a group of people want it to…which is exactly what the gay agenda is doing here.

You should probably stop caving in to them. Immediately would be great.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, because it is true. The word “guy” used to mean an ugly man. It has now dropped the meaning of ugly. The reason the Church uses Latin as her official language is because she recognizes this as true, and dead languages don’t have this issue.

The Church currently doesn’t allow men who are known to be gay to be priests. What does that tell you?

If you go over to the vocations forum, you will actually see that the exact meaning of the document you are referring is open for interpretation by major superiors and bishops. Most religious orders take it to mean “not having sex” while bishops are a mixed bag on what it means.

 

[Lochias]

BlueEyedLady:

I allow people who smoke to be in my home, join me for dinner, and play games and watch movies with me. I do not endorse smoking. There’s a difference.

Your whole argument that the BSA now endorses homosexuality is flawed at its roots.

If the BSA doesn’t endorse homosexuality, why did they go out of their way to announce it?

 

[StJudeprayforme]

Because with “homophobia” it is used to attack people who will not accept homosexual activity is normal. It is not the same as false racism charges because the word has no legitimate use.

There is no such thing as bigotry against homosexuals?

Because the sexual activity is only one aspect of the moral problem. This is not only about sex acts but about ideology. The orientation itself can evoke moral concern as the Church teaches. Teaching, by word or example, that wrong is right is not consistent with the faith.

Homosexuality is not sinful in itself, as the Church teaches. She calls on us to treat people who are homosexual with compassion, charity, and respect. Letting a teen boy still be part of a club with his friends is not endorsing sexual activity.

 

[Fairwinds]

My financial and volunteer support for the scouts has come to an end.
A sad end for yet another great institution.

no doubt the Scouts are very worried.

No. 403 asks a good question.

Can you look a 10 yr old boy in the eyes and tell him he is “evil” because he has homosexual tendencies? If you can then God have mercy on your soul.

 

[edwest2]

Certainly, a parent can make whatever decision they want. Perhaps I shouldn’t have bolded the word “strongly”.

But just because most people here will have no official (name removed by moderator)ut doesn’t mean that it’s not a good idea to pause and reflect before making a decision. I think when we make decisions in a reactive way, it weakens our ability to address the issues at stake. Why pull our children out immediately, when we can take the time to hear from our bishops and those who are involved on a diocesan and national level? There’s no harm in waiting, but I see a potential for much harm in acting without thinking it through.

And even if no one here at CAF is on any Councils or Committees, that doesn’t mean they have no (name removed by moderator)ut. Any parent can contact their troop leadership or diocesan committee.

Well, Joe. Each decision is individual but this whole issue was forced on the scouts.

"The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force applauded Spielberg for his resignation.

“We’d like to thank Steven Spielberg for recognizing the bigotry that the Boy Scouts’ policy has been perpetuating,” said Elizabeth Toledo, the NGLTF executive director. “This issue won’t go away for the Boy Scouts. Through actions like these, they will be forced to revisit [their policies].”

See the words “they will be forced.”? I remember the whole Spielberg situation quite well. Would you describe that as a knee-jerk reaction? It’s obvious that action was followed by further pressure and now, this.

I’m sure plenty of parents considered the ramifications. I’m sure plenty of parents reacted when they found out their little kids were being exposed to gay indoctrination through story books in schools.

Are you assuming someone else should decide for them, or the majority are so unable to think this through or don’t know about the normalizing of gay behavior being reported daily? About the celebrity or sports figure who is now “openly” LGBT?

I think Joe, that removing their kids/young adults from scouting immediately is the right move. They have plenty of evidence about the New Normal and the Modern Family from TV and the news.

Caution is good but not when lawmakers are openly denying the will of the people and we are seeing the same pattern being repeated over and over and over again. Gay people don’t want to be mistreated, bullied, harassed or called names? That’s great. I’m all for it. I wish the same could be said for all the other kids too.

Peace,
Ed

 

[BlueEyedLady]

If the BSA doesn’t endorse homosexuality, why did they go out of their way to announce it?

Because this affects parents, kids, and has been a highly publicized issue for a long time. If they didn’t announce it no one would know about the policy change, and when a gay scout did come out there would be enormous confusion about the rules.

And how angry would anti gay parents be if the policy changed, they didn’t know about it, and when a gay scout did show up nothing was done? They would be so angry that they didn’t have a chance to pull their kid out.

Seriously, either way the BSA was screwed with the anti gay crowd.

 

[Fairwinds]

Because this affects parents, kids, and has been a highly publicized issue for a long time. If they didn’t announce it no one would know about the policy change, and when a gay scout did come out there would be enormous confusion about the rules.

And how angry would anti gay parents be if the policy changed, they didn’t know about it, and when a gay scout did show up nothing was done? They would be so angry that they didn’t have a chance to pull their kid out.

Seriously, either way the BSA was screwed with the anti gay crowd.

I was never a scout. would they kick you [meaning, the editorial “you”] out for smoking a reefer at a time or place when you’re not being a scout? having a beer? or just saying you liked reefers or beer?