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maryjk
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I agree.
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Tomdstone
Guest
The Catholic bishops have the responsibility to teach, rule and sanctify Catholics. We can read what the bishops have taught: " “Responsibility, Rehabilitation and Restoration: A Catholic Perspective on Crime and Criminal Justice” from November 2000.
“As bishops, we support measures that control the sale and use of firearms and make them safer – especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children or anyone other than the owner – and we reiterate our call for sensible regulation of handguns.”
That’s followed by a footnote that states: “However, we believe that in the long run and with few exceptions – i.e. police officers, military use – handguns should be eliminated from our society.”"
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adrift
Guest
This has nothing to do with what I posted or the question I asked. I didn’t even mention hand guns.
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The_Wizard
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The_Wizard
Guest
Thank god I live in a country where the God given right of self defense has not been taken away by The Crown. Do a Google search on self defense in the UK and you will find that you have NO right to defend yourself. There have been several cases of people put in prison in the UK for defending themselves against violent assaults. The only right you have is the right and duty to run away. Lucky for us “Americans” we had/have firearms or we would still be SUBJECTS of The Crown instead of CITIZENS of the United States of America. Do they teach you about Lexington, Concord and April 19, 1775 over there. An occupying army tried to disarm the people. But the American people do follow Jesus’s command to forgive their enemies (or at least they did in 1940) when gun owning American sent their firearms to help defend the UK against the Nazism. Google American Committee for Defense of British Homes.
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Tomdstone
Guest
The question was why did He establish a Church. I wrote that the Church bishops are here to teach, rule and sanctify. The topic of the thread concerns bringing guns to church. I gave one example of the teachings of the Catholic bishops on guns: " “Responsibility, Rehabilitation and Restoration: A Catholic Perspective on Crime and Criminal Justice” from November 2000.
“As bishops, we support measures that control the sale and use of firearms and make them safer – especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children or anyone other than the owner – and we reiterate our call for sensible regulation of handguns.”
That’s followed by a footnote that states: “However, we believe that in the long run and with few exceptions – i.e. police officers, military use – handguns should be eliminated from our society.”"
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Thomas_White
Guest
I agree that guns in Church are a perversion. However, in a dangerous world there are times when civilized people agree that violence must be met with violence, as was the case when Great Britian was saved from oblivion by a savage foe when the U.S. military intervened during WWII.
And I doubt Londoners were upset when the U.S. Army overran V-2 launch sites or liberated Nazi death camps. As I understand it, the people of France were happy enough to see the Allied Armies liberate Paris and the rest of their country from a brutal tyranny.
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otjm
Guest
Touché.
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otjm
Guest
Over on this side of the pond we do have a phrase: “Just because you are paranoid does not mean that someone is not out to get you!”
And because we have a slightly different form of government, allow me to point out that we gave a slightly different form of government, with a President; our Congress passes general law (and assuming that the President does not veto the law), and the president implements it through his administrative side, by writing Rules and Regulations.
President Clinton was (and still is) a Democrat, also known as a liberal, and did his best to pass gun control laws.
So when I say that when his Justice Department found that there were as many as 1.5 million incidents per year of folks like you and me defending ourselves with guns, I am saying that even under a liberal administration which showed significant animosity to weapons of any sort, their own findings showed ample facts contradicting their emotional responses to weapons.
And perhaps we are paranoid; but with reason.
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Peccavi
Guest
Two more dead today. How many more before you recognise your paranoia is not saving lives at all but providing the means for taking them. As a Pro-Life supporter against both abortion and the death penalty, I see a lack of gun control as a hypocrisy.
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Eric_Hyom
Guest
America was happy to stand back for two years and just supply the military hardware for a profit, sounds like you wanted to benefit from the war, rather than take part.
You seem to forget Pearl Harbour, and Hitler declared war against America,
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Eric_Hyom
Guest
Thank God I live in a country that lives mostly without guns.
The Tony Martin case was controversial. The farmer gave a warning shot, and the would be burglars fled, the farmer then shot one of them in the back as he was trying to escape, not really self defence. The burglar died of his injuries.
Very much like the disciples running away, when they came to arrest Jesus.
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ephesians4
Guest
I would like to make it very clear that there are people in the UK who do not see US citizens in terms of sweeping (and frankly rather insulting) generalisations, think you should have your guns taken away, or totally miss the point with a lot of the cultural/constitutional stuff (perhaps only partially missing the point 
).
I’d ask that you not draw any general conclusions about Brits from ones who generalise about Americans.
The USA saved Britain from a prolonged guerilla war and inevitable victory, by the way, I should just make that clear.
Brits celebrate things like Dunkirk, being proud of how it got to that point - the fact that Britain will fight for friends and against true evil when the odds say Britain will lose and/or has a smaller war machine than her enemies. The fact that people went out there in a rag tag fleet of tubs and yachts and fishing boats because “fight them on the beaches, fight them in the streets” was never bluster or empty rhetoric but the cold hard truth.
).I’d ask that you not draw any general conclusions about Brits from ones who generalise about Americans.
Europeans will never forget the brave sacrifice made by so many of your young men, and the unimaginable loss of life involved, rest assured.
The USA saved Britain from a prolonged guerilla war and inevitable victory, by the way, I should just make that clear.
Brits celebrate things like Dunkirk, being proud of how it got to that point - the fact that Britain will fight for friends and against true evil when the odds say Britain will lose and/or has a smaller war machine than her enemies. The fact that people went out there in a rag tag fleet of tubs and yachts and fishing boats because “fight them on the beaches, fight them in the streets” was never bluster or empty rhetoric but the cold hard truth.
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Cirdan_XII
Guest
When i was living in Germany I attended a parish that was affiliated to a local student fraternity. Whenever a mass was held in memory of a deceased member, or also some other special fraternity function, they would attend in full regalia which included flags, uniforms and swords.
At state funeral, doesn’t the guard of honour also attend with guns? Maybe the guns are ceremonious and not capable of being fired, but they are guns nevertheless.
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adrift
Guest
Another poster made the comment
He did not come to create a rubric for a civic society. Like most other such needs, He has left that up to human consciences.
The question is in response to He did not create a rubric. Your response does not answer that question.
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otjm
Guest
According to reports, the shooter had a criminal history. That usually means that he had no right to have a firearm of any type - so the gun laws already in existence were not working.
In essence, what you want is all firearms to be taken away.
I will repeat - a liberal administration, intent on limiting the purchase of weapons, found according to their own research, that approaching one and one half million people per year used a gun in self defense.
And when guns are taken away from the innocent, who will still have them? Those who are criminals. There are already ample rules on the books preventing criminals from obtaining weapons, and the result is criminals possess weapons in spite of the law.
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Peccavi
Guest
FACT 2015
USA
Killed by guns in first 6 months 7,169
wounded 14,386
Children killed or badly injured by guns 1,790
UK
killed by guns 5
USA
Killed by guns in first 6 months 7,169
wounded 14,386
Children killed or badly injured by guns 1,790
UK
killed by guns 5
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otjm
Guest
And within your “children” category is the reporting of all the gang shootings. As they are criminals shooting (generally) other criminals, your statistics don’t really tell the story.
The same goes for your other two statistics. Unless you can sort out, from those “killed by guns” into sub categories such as a) those killed in gang shootings (and that can be broken down to internal within the gang, gang against another gang, those shot by a gang member who were related to another gang member); b) other criminal on criminal shootings; c) innocent shot by criminals; and d) innocent shooting a criminal, it is essentially a meaningless statistic.
But you just keep banging away at it.
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Peccavi
Guest
Trouble is your countrymen keep banging away at people
(incidentally over 400 of the children were under 11 - that is crazy by any stretch of the imagination )
(incidentally over 400 of the children were under 11 - that is crazy by any stretch of the imagination )
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LatinByzCath
Guest
I went to a parish where a kind old lady told me, after one of the shootings of recent years, “I sure hope our ushers are packin’”
My response to this idea…
In the Byzantine Church I grew up in, the policy was that no weapons were allowed in Church (unless law enforcement happened to be int he building or something.)
My response to this idea…
In the Byzantine Church I grew up in, the policy was that no weapons were allowed in Church (unless law enforcement happened to be int he building or something.)
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