British growing more liberal

[Kaninchen]

I also confess that I am American and use the term liberal as it applies here but it sounds very similar to the UK definition using the little bit of info you provided. I gave a small example…ie; big government…yes or no? Liberal on issues can have nuances here too but I don’t see an earth shaking difference myself.

‘Big government’ compared to what and compared with whom?

Traditionally, more ‘big government’ than the Conservatives but less ‘big government’ than Labour (though there’s not that much of a gap between them all now) - but, taking something that would divide conservative from liberal in the US, socialized healthcare, none of the three groups in the UK would advocate abolishing it (not least because their chances of ever being elected would plummet to zero) arguments center on management systems. UK Conservatives would seem ‘big government’ to the average Republican.

American terms are useful for describing America the way that Americans understand America - European terms are more useful for understanding Europe as Europeans understand Europe.

 

[FightingFat]

It’s Liberalism Jim, but not as we know it!

melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=483

I think that far from liberalism, what we are experiencing is the breakdown in society that has shocking parallels to pre-exilic Israel we read about in Amos, Hosea and Micah.

Micah was appalled by the corruption that was rampant in Israel and saw the same forms of injustice Amos and Hosea did, even the court prophets and Temple priests were so tied into the system of fiscal and social favours that they seemed to languish in a stupor and spoke no truth [Micah 2:6-7, 11; 3:11]. Without the support of society, family life broke down, children rebelled against their parents and spouses were alienated through suspicion [Micah 7:5-6]. There were false prophets who soothed the corrupt with their words and God was silent, no word, no vision came from Him [3:5-7]. Through Micah, the LORD takes his people to court and charges them with breaching the covenant, Micah is His spokesman, presenting the LORD’S case [1:2; 6:1-16].

Amos is the same. Everywhere he looks he sees injustice in this affluent society; disparity between rich and poor, extortion and cheating in the market place deprive farmers of a just price for their crops [Amos 5:11; 8:4-6]. The upper classes oppress the poor, sexually abuse servants [2:7] and force them into debt slavery [8:6]. His criticism cuts across the whole spectrum of the aristocracy even touching the king [7:10-11], the high priest [7:16-17] and the wealthy of Samaria [4:1-3; 6:1-7]. He sees the people absorbed in a delusion of ritual without good works, without the practice of justice and convinced that this ritual alone will bring about their salvation. They do not see that the practice of justice is in fact the primary quality of relationship to God in the covenant. By rejecting the words of Amos [7:10-13] and by silencing other prophets [2:12], Israel demonstrates an unwillingness to hear the Lord, she is setting herself up for a famine; God will not speak to her for some time Amos 8:11-12; cf. Dt 8:3]: Israel is cultivating for herself unparalleled affliction. I wonder if we are doing the exact same thing?

 

[mschrank]

"Benedictus:

So, in your view, non-religious people aren’t human?

Well, biologically they are, but to live in their world is so different than anything that historically, human beings have experienced in the million odd years we’ve been around, that they are more post-human than actually human in terms of experience.

Utter rubbish I’m afraid. You obviously don’t live in Europe.

Yeah, go on denying it. Hopefully, you’ll be in the ground before they start reading the Koran in the local comprehensive and prayer calls are broadcasted from the BT Tower. Sorry buddy, I lived in London for 5 years, Camden Road & Eversholt Street.

Today, the Muslim birth rate in Europe is three times higher than the non-Muslim one. If current trends continue, the Muslim population of Europe will nearly double by 2015, while the non-Muslim population will shrink by 3.5 percent.

brookings.edu/opinions/2003/03middleeast_taspinar.aspx

Soaring immigration rates are accompanied by a high birthrate among European Muslims relative to the general population, with some estimates reporting that Muslims already constitute about 25% of French schoolchildren. If the current trends continue, an Islamic majority might surface in France and the Netherlands as early as 2040.

gwias.com/globe/archive/000072.html

Just do some googling. Really, this ostrich-like mentality of some of you guys is absolutely mind-boggling. Just saying “nuh uh!” doesn’t make it so. Your kind are worse than the fundamentalists who claim the earth is 6000 years old despite the overwhelming evidence because you don’t want to accept the implications.

 

[pismopal]

‘Big government’ compared to what and compared with whom?

Traditionally, more ‘big government’ than the Conservatives but less ‘big government’ than Labour (though there’s not that much of a gap between them all now) - but, taking something that would divide conservative from liberal in the US, socialized healthcare, none of the three groups in the UK would advocate abolishing it (not least because their chances of ever being elected would plummet to zero) arguments center on management systems. UK Conservatives would seem ‘big government’ to the average Republican.

American terms are useful for describing America the way that Americans understand America - European terms are more useful for understanding Europe as Europeans understand Europe.

Uuuuh…ok

 

[stbruno]

The greatest liberal was Jesus Christ! He liberated us from sin and death and opened the gates of heaven. More reasons to pray for the entire world, to recognize the awesome gift we have given, and we should follow Him! The sin of premarital sex only entraps us. Complicates our lives, opens us up to dehumanizing us, making us just creatures of an animal nature. Opens us up to abuse, sexual violence & disease. I don’t know why people think free love is so good, when it is just the opposite. The devil really must have a great PR man to dupe so many of us in the world.
I know my house lives and will always serve the Lord!

 

[mschrank]

I’ll be honest with you…that is the most hatefull, thoughtless post I have seen on any blog that was not muslim oriented. I am going to close with that as I already have hypertension.

Dude, I’m not making this stuff up. Have you ever read Satre? Dabbled in Deridda? This stuff is diabolical, and does result in twisted human beings who are in hell already.

 

[Yellow_Belle]

Dude, I’m not making this stuff up. Have you ever read Satre? Dabbled in Deridda? This stuff is diabolical, and does result in twisted human beings who are in hell already.

Do you mean Sartre and Derrida? I studied both at university as part of a history of human thought and theory course and can assure you I’m neither a twisted human being nor spending my time in hell as a consequence. And how many of your average Europeans-in-the-street do you suppose have actually read either/both? About the same number as your average Americans-in-the-street??

Have you actually lived and worked in Europe, got to know people from its various countries and cultures? And with respect, living in ‘London for 5 years, Camden Road & Eversholt Street’ scarcely qualifies you to make a judgement about the humanity of Europeans. I lived as many years in North Carolina and experienced much anti-Catholic sentiment there but it would be illogical of me to conclude from that experience that all Americans or even most Americans are anti-Catholic.

 

[Thomas_B]

Dude, I’m not making this stuff up. Have you ever read Satre? Dabbled in Deridda? This stuff is diabolical, and does result in twisted human beings who are in hell already.

So because there are two thinkers that you don’t believe held Christian views, you label all of the people of Europe as “post-human wraiths which only resemble humans on the outside but are totally devoid of anything sacred or even noble on the inside.”

Don’t think my family in England or France would agree with you there.

Also an interesting since the Vatican is located in Italy…

 

[Migueliones]

Well, biologically they are, but to live in their world is so different than anything that historically, human beings have experienced in the million odd years we’ve been around, that they are more post-human than actually human in terms of experience.

Scary, scary stuff.

Yeah, go on denying it. Hopefully, you’ll be in the ground before they start reading the Koran in the local comprehensive and prayer calls are broadcasted from the BT Tower. Sorry buddy, I lived in London for 5 years, Camden Road & Eversholt Street.

brookings.edu/opinions/2003/03middleeast_taspinar.aspx

gwias.com/globe/archive/000072.html

Just do some googling. Really, this ostrich-like mentality of some of you guys is absolutely mind-boggling. Just saying “nuh uh!” doesn’t make it so. Your kind are worse than the fundamentalists who claim the earth is 6000 years old despite the overwhelming evidence because you don’t want to accept the implications.

Your kind?

“reading the Koran in the local comprehensive and prayer calls are broadcasted from the BT Tower”



Oh my word.

Did you know that schools are legally supposed to have Christian assemblies every day here? So the reading of a ‘holy’ book in school is hardly going to shock me when there’s already one bigoted pile of rubbish that’s supposed to be broadcasted in British schools. Thankfully most ignore this rule, hopefully it’ll be scrapped soon.

Just because you lived in London for 5 years hardly makes you an expert. Europe is a big, big place.

 

[Kaninchen]

It’s Liberalism Jim, but not as we know it!

melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=483

As a long term Melanie reader (Jewish Chronicle), I have to say I prefer my ‘cons’ without ‘neo-’ in front of them, at least they tend to be witty.

 

[Kaninchen]

Scary, scary stuff.

Yes and it’s all part of the fun of message boards - the surreal moments!

 

[mschrank]

Scary, scary stuff.

Your kind?

“reading the Koran in the local comprehensive and prayer calls are broadcasted from the BT Tower”



Oh my word.

Did you know that schools are legally supposed to have Christian assemblies every day here? So the reading of a ‘holy’ book in school is hardly going to shock me when there’s already one bigoted pile of rubbish that’s supposed to be broadcasted in British schools. Thankfully most ignore this rule, hopefully it’ll be scrapped soon.

Well, nobody (read: apostate Christians) really takes what that holy book says seriously in your country. The difference is, Muslims do.

I know, I know, kinda hard to reckon on. Well, I guess they’re just backwards religious nuts. Whatever you call them, they believe in it. All of it. Some more than others, but even the some is a substantial number.

Anyway, are you telling me that a legal system and society based on the Koran is going to be no different than what you have now? What is even your argument here?

Just because you lived in London for 5 years hardly makes you an expert. Europe is a big, big place.

Yeah, it is a big place, and I’ve either lived in or visited most of it to know what I’m talking about. Not all Americans are 250 lbs, subsist on a diet of big macs and coke and are without a passport.

And yes, it’s pretty scary. Try doing a degree in political philosophy at the university of london (one of them) and having a diet chock full of Rorty, Derridda, Sartre and Focuault. Freaking scary indeed.

 

[Kaninchen]

Sorry buddy, I lived in London for 5 years, Camden Road & Eversholt Street.

That sounds suspiciously like . . . . Mornington Crescent.

“The antidote to all panel games” (a phrase meaningless to other than BBC Radio 4 listeners).

 

[Kaninchen]

And yes, it’s pretty scary. Try doing a degree in political philosophy at the university of london (one of them) and having a diet chock full of Rorty, Derridda, Sartre and Focuault. Freaking scary indeed.

One of them? There’s only one ‘University of London’ - though asking where it is could lead you to a category error, of course - though there are a number of universities in London.

You’re obviously easily scared.

 

[mschrank]

One of them? There’s only one ‘University of London’ - though asking where it is could lead you to a category error, of course - though there are a number of universities in London.

You’re obviously easily scared.

And you’re obviously prone to making silly assessments about people’s character. What are you implying, that I’m afraid this guy is going to come to class and kick my butt?

One of the colleges affiliated with the university of London. Happy?
I don’t give out personal information online and there is a reason for that.

 

[Kaninchen]

And you’re obviously prone to making silly assessments about people’s character. What are you implying, that I’m afraid this guy is going to come to class and kick my butt?

Errr? What ‘guy’ are you talking about? Aren’t their enough wraiths chasing you around or something?

One of the colleges affiliated with the university of London. Happy?
I don’t give out personal information online and there is a reason for that.

Well, I read for one of my post-grad degrees at one of the colleges and know very well that saying a ‘college of the University of London’ (which includes several tens of thousands of students) rather than ‘the university of london (one of them)’ would hardly be an identifier and nobody was asking you to identify yourself so they might “come to class and kick my butt”.

Good grief!

 

[mschrank]

Well, whatever. LOL.

Enjoy your haraam activities while they’re still legal. Drink an extra pint of that good ale for me.

 

[Kaninchen]

Well, whatever. LOL.

Enjoy your haraam activities while they’re still legal.

They’ll be illegal about the time that the US becomes monoglot Spanish.

Drink an extra pint of that good ale for me.

Only if it’s Kosher.

 

[anamchara]

One of them? There’s only one ‘University of London’ - though asking where it is could lead you to a category error, of course - though there are a number of universities in London.

You’re obviously easily scared

Well this has been an interesting read! :hypno: Thanks for the laugh!

Sorry for the pointless post

I won’t be here much longer, Cali is suppose to drop off the continent due to all our sinning.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Don’t worry, in 50 years Europe will be a Muslim continent. To be honest, I’m glad. Rather see God fearing decent human beings rather than post-human wraiths which only resemble humans on the outside but are totally devoid of anything sacred or even noble on the inside.

Is that all of us that are going to lose our souls and become ‘‘post human wraiths’’? We’re all doomed? Wow…sounding like a post-protestant Westboro Baptist Church there.

God hates…Europe?