Bruce Jenner's Début as "Caitlyn"

  • Thread starter Thread starter DakiniArtist
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
jtauke said:
Saying it’s photshopped while providing no evidence to support the claim?

no doubt it’s speculation.
Click to expand...
It is common practice for fashion mags to photoshop their pictures. It’s not a matter of if it’s photoshopped, but rather to what degree it is photoshopped. 😉
 
Maxirad said:
Bill Donohue of the Catholic League has weighed in.
Click to expand...
The study cited in the article does not support the claims Donohue makes!

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
It is therefore important to note that the current study is only informative with respect to transsexuals persons health after sex reassignment; no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness of sex reassignment as a treatment for transsexualism. In other words, the results should not be interpreted such as sex reassignment per se increases morbidity and mortality. Things might have been even worse without sex reassignment. As an analogy, similar studies have found increased somatic morbidity, suicide rate, and overall mortality for patients treated for bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.[39], [40] This is important information, but it does not follow that mood stabilizing treatment or antipsychotic treatment is the culprit.
Click to expand...
What Donohue states is not my experience nor the experience of most transsexuals that I know who experienced improvements in quality of life and over all mental health.
 
Perhaps we can bring this discussion back to the concerns of so many Catholics - Isn’t this behavior sinful? Doesn’t this behavior bring one further from God (not closer)? Regardless of one’s feelings and desires, isn’t growing closer to the Lord and being pleasing in His sight what we are seeking? A big part of spiritual growth is learning to accept both the limitations and the graces with which God has created us. Making such a choice is tantamount to telling God that He made a mistake when He made you male or female. I just can’t accept that thinking. It is far more likely that the devil is deceiving these people and we should pray for them.
 
rae317 said:
Okay, this is what Donohue was going back to, which all goes to the same study. it DOES NOT support what Paul or Donohue says.

But sure whatever.

Bye
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but other data does.

“Those who have medically transitioned (45%) and surgically transitioned (43%) have higher rates of attempted suicide than those who have not (34% and 39% respectively).”

Source: National Transgender Discrimination Survey Report on Health and Health Care, data pertains to the transgender population only.

thetaskforce.org/static_html/downloads/reports/reports/ntds_report_on_health.pdf

With respect, I trust this over your anecdotal evidence. The Report is sponsored by the leading transgender equality group. If it says such a significant portion of transitioned commit suicide, I see no reason not to believe it. The report was solely made for the care and concern of trans people.
 
jaxster99 said:
Perhaps we can bring this discussion back to the concerns of so many Catholics - Isn’t this behavior sinful? Doesn’t this behavior bring one further from God (not closer)? Regardless of one’s feelings and desires, isn’t growing closer to the Lord and being pleasing in His sight what we are seeking? A big part of spiritual growth is learning to accept both the limitations and the graces with which God has created us. Making such a choice is tantamount to telling God that He made a mistake when He made you male or female. I just can’t accept that thinking. It is far more likely that the devil is deceiving these people and we should pray for them.
Click to expand...
Please identify the Church teaching that states that transgenderism is sinful or that sex reassignment surgery is definitively sinful.
 
lemongrass80 said:
Comparing a trans person to their son thinking he is a dinosaur, or mocking them by suggesting it’s the same as someone waking up one day thinking they are a pine cone, is willfully ignorant, unnecessarily mean and spiteful, and completely disregards the real struggles and hardship of trans people.

If we want to talk about vile and disgusting, how about we start with those comments.
Click to expand...
I disagree, if his child relates more so with a dinosaur, we should let him live his life as a dinosaur…this is the thinking of all the Jenner supporters.

There was a call on a talk radio show yesterday I liked, a guy called in, said he was a white guy in his 50s, but over the course of his life, he has felt more like a black man, he said all this publicity with bruce jenner has given him the courage to come out, now he wants to do something more about it, he wants to become a black man…Im assuming this guy will be called courageous, a hero, brave, etc…right?
 
gracepoole said:
Please identify the Church teaching that states that transgenderism is sinful or that sex reassignment surgery is definitively sinful.
Click to expand...
Wait now, that’s not what that poster said.

And his/her questions have basis. Catholic pro-SRS advocates point to the therapeutic exceptions to the proscriptions on mutilation and sterilization. But these are tainted because the science behind the therapeutic effectiveness is very poor. As I mentioned above, there is plenty of data suggesting they worsen the situation. So I think that at this point, it is at least grossly reckless from a moral standpoint. Extreme desperation mitigates culpability, of course, but it doesn’t justify the action.
 
gracepoole said:
Please identify the Church teaching that states that transgenderism is sinful or that sex reassignment surgery is definitively sinful.
Click to expand...
Certainly most cases will involve grave matter because the subject will incur sterilization. In Humanae Vitae 15, the exception to the immorality of sterilization would be if a separate surgery is “necessary to cure bodily diseases,” resulting in the unintended sterilization of the subject. It would be hard to argue that the subject in these cases are trying to cure any bodily disease. They are also intending for their genitals to be destroyed.
 
MarcoPolo said:
Certainly most cases will involve grave matter because the subject will incur sterilization. In Humanae Vitae 15, the exception to the immorality of sterilization would be if a separate surgery is “necessary to cure bodily diseases,” resulting in the unintended sterilization of the subject. It would be hard to argue that the subject in these cases are trying to cure any bodily disease. They are also intending for their genitals to be destroyed.
Click to expand...
No, I strongly disagree with how you put it. They are definitely trying to cure, or at least treat their condition. They are just settling on bad science.
 
Havard said:
No, I strongly disagree with how you put it. They are definitely trying to cure, or at least treat their condition. They are just settling on bad science.
Click to expand...
Even if you were concede their claim, you would have to say it was not a “bodily disease,” (corporis curandos necessariae sunt) as Humanae Vitae says, right? It is a mental condition. Their bodies are otherwise healthy with respect to their “condition.”
 
MarcoPolo said:
Even if you were concede their claim, you would have to say it was not a “bodily disease,” (corporis curandos necessariae sunt) as Humanae Vitae says, right? It is a mental condition. Their bodies are otherwise healthy with respect to their “condition.”
Click to expand...
Should we not treat mental diseases the same as physical ones though? H.V. was written at a time when often we understood mental illness in a very much less sophisticated way; it might be time for a short appendix to clarify this point, IMO …
 
MarcoPolo said:
Even if you were concede their claim, you would have to say it was not a “bodily disease,” (corporis curandos necessariae sunt) as Humanae Vitae says, right? It is a mental condition. Their bodies are otherwise healthy with respect to their “condition.”
Click to expand...
It does not stem from the parts of the body that get mutilated, no. And I think that is the important point.

But it may be bodily in the sense of a physical anomaly within the brain. There are studies that show differences in brain scans with transsexual patients. Perhaps in the future, isolating and understanding a physical source of the problem could help develop medication that will alleviate the symptoms.
 
Murmurs said:
Should we not treat mental diseases the same as physical ones though? H.V. was written at a time when often we understood mental illness in a very much less sophisticated way; it might be time for a short appendix to clarify this point, IMO …
Click to expand...
If a mental disease actually required physical treatment, then it wouldn’t just be a mental disease. Right? In other words, some mental disorders are treated with external therapies, like counseling. Persons with chemical imbalances or something like that have a physical issue.
 
Havard said:
It does not stem from the parts of the body that get mutilated, no. And I think that is the important point.

But it may be bodily in the sense of a physical anomaly within the brain. There are studies that show differences in brain scans with transsexual patients. Perhaps in the future, isolating and understanding a physical source of the problem could help develop medication that will alleviate the symptoms.
Click to expand...
That is a good point then. :o
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top