Burqa ban passes French lower house overwhelmingly

[qui_est_ce]

What everybody keeps forgetting here, is the French are saying you can’t walk around with your FACE covered.

The niqab covers the entire face, with a small slit for the eyes. Some even have mesh in front of the eyes. The ones I copied here entirely covered the eyes as well.

The fact that there are millions of Muslim women in France, and only 396 cover their faces should tell you it not religious requirement.

I’d have to question the motives of any man who would let his wife out in public with this obvious safety hazard (limited sight for the wearer).

So why are these women covering?

And Rich, there is a difference between a hood and a face veil.

View attachment 8312

The below photo reminds me of the cowardly rock throwers in Isreal.

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By western standards, it’s creepy.

Also, I remember in the 1990’s Gulf war, American women soldiers were required to cover up out of respect for the culture. Not going to research it unless called on it, but I do remember it.

Perhaps those few Muslim women can do the same?

 

[qui_est_ce]

France. They’ve banned wearing a crucifix and the yarmulke’s as well, haven’t they (not at the same time, of course)? This is bad because France is more like China suppressing rights instead of giving people a choice. The people the police would have no choice but to persecute a woman wearing a religious symbol of her faith.

In Government owned buildings.

We don’t allow the Ten Commandments or nativity scenes on public property either. And there are plenty of workplaces that won’t allow you to hang up anything religious in your cubicle.

The only reason they’re suppressing Christian religious symbols is to avoid hypocrisy.

Has anybody here even been to Europe recently to see exactly what’s going on?

Many Muslims complain about not having jobs. They are marginalizing themselves. The don’t speak the language they refuse to adapt to the culture, then they cry victim.

Reuters

France has Europe’s biggest Muslim community, estimated at 5 million.

Statistics on how many women wear facial veils are usually not available in France, which is wary of surveys of **people’s religious practices because of the ideal of equality.
**
This means that until now, the issue of Islamic veils has been debated with much passion but little hard evidence.

…

The reports say most women who wear full veils are under 30 and do so to make a **political point. **Outraged by what they see as widespread anti-Muslim sentiment, they want to defy society and, in some cases, their own relatives.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

We don’t allow the Ten Commandments or nativity scenes on public property either. And there are plenty of workplaces that won’t allow you to hang up anything religious in your cubicle.

The Bill of Rights constrains government action; not private businesses.

The only reason they’re suppressing Christian religious symbols is to avoid hypocrisy.

Actually, no. The constitution also constrains the fostering of religion by government.

Many Muslims complain about not having jobs. They are marginalizing themselves. The don’t speak the language they refuse to adapt to the culture, then they cry victim.

The legacy of imperialism. It serves the European countries right. So say the small ‘d’ democrats.

 

[qui_est_ce]

The Bill of Rights constrains government action; not private businesses.

Are you talking about the French Bill of Rights?

Actually, no. The constitution also constrains the fostering of religion by government.

Again, we are talking about France, not the US. France does subsidize Catholic schools. They pay the teachers’ salaries.

The legacy of imperialism. It serves the European countries right. So say the small ‘d’ democrats.

People need to move on. That’s the problem with half this world. They’re so stuck in the past they’ll cut off their noses to spite their faces.

I’d be willing to bet that the Muslim women who wear the niqab are not the North Africans.

 

[jdnation]

Do you take it off for your driver’s license picture? Do you take it off when you go to the bank?

Did you actually look at the picture in the OP?

I would think at the very least, there is a safety issue involved.

I can understand them outlawing it in certain places and for certain reasons, photo ID, banks, airports etc. But in general public places as well? It’s simply too absurd.

Islamic law is moronic, that’s for sure. But this is simply a bad move. France’s problems will now get worse!!! Their government has literally put their people are greater risk from Islamic terrorism! Islamic women who are abused will have even stricter rules and restrictions placed on them!!! This law helped nobody!!! And it reeks of totalitarianism!

 

[Pitcharan]

Paris, France (CNN) – France’s lower house of parliament Tuesday overwhelmingly passed a ban on any veils that cover the face – including the burqa, …

It would have been better if you named this thread "French ban on veils that cover the face passes their lower house overwhelmingly"

By using the word “burqa” you are giving room for imaginary doubts

• about habits worn by catholic nuns.
• of French government being viewed as anti muslim

 

[Darryl1958]

I can understand them outlawing it in certain places and for certain reasons, photo ID, banks, airports etc. But in general public places as well? It’s simply too absurd.

It does not follow American ideals of individual freedom, but France has defined their freedom along a different path than America. Pride in French culture is paramount over religious freedoms in France.

Islamic law is moronic, that’s for sure.

Burqas are more a cultural thing than Islamic. Backward people are the ones who come up with such absurdities. This is not something that is inherent to the Islamic religon.

But this is simply a bad move. France’s problems will now get worse!!!

I won’t predict. already you have thugs cutting women ‘smilies’ from lip to ear for not wearing veils like proper women ought to. It is for the French to decide was it proper dress rather than the Muslim thugs.

Their government has literally put their people are greater risk from Islamic terrorism!

I always found this rather weak-kneed response. Standing up to the bully often results in the bully standing down. The “head scarf in schools” issue went ahead without a hitch. There is no reason to believe that this won’t too.
Even so, fear of terrorist attack is a very cowardly reason for not taking a course of action. Such a response empowers terrorists by appeasing to their demands.

Islamic women who are abused will have even stricter rules and restrictions placed on them!!! This law helped nobody!!! And it reeks of totalitarianism!

It is very important then for feminists and French liberals to reach out to Islamic women then and prosecute the misogynistic abuses to the full extent of the law. Because the burqa is a form of abuse, this is reason enough to outlaw it.
I personally don’t see the burqa as a sign of individual freedom for Muslim women, but as a form of repression and imposition upon them by others. The French no doubt see things that way too. Making the burqa illegal will in effect make those imposing the burqa on their women outside of the law, right where they belong.

It is not a multicultural model that the French are pursing here. This is a clear message to both indigenous French and to immigrants that citizens of France are expected to share in the French culture, and become French. It is not the melting pot model of e pluribus unum that Americans traditionally have followed, not the multicultural model that is being increasingly followed in Canada and America, but an unabashedly French model. It states that being French is expected by all who live on French soil, and that French is not a skin tone, but a culture and a way of life. It provides an answers to both the racism of the French right, and the Islamism that is funded by Saudi petro-dollars.
The French are showing some spine here and some confidence that the French culture is indeed something of great value worthy of being emulated. It is about time that some Europeans started showing pride in their own cultures again.

 

[Darryl1958]

It would have been better if you named this thread "French ban on veils that cover the face passes their lower house overwhelmingly"

By using the word “burqa” you are giving room for imaginary doubts

• about habits worn by catholic nuns.
• of French government being viewed as anti muslim

Well, since the time of the French Revolution and Napoleon, the anti-clericalism of France has become very firmly entrenched. One might see this move as indeed being ‘anti-Muslim’ in the same way that France is ‘anti-Catholic’.

This is not the traditional American model of small government. In France, it is the state that defines the freedoms of the people.

As far as totalitarian goes, even America is moving away from their traditional roots of limited government toward a government which defines more and more of Americans lives, from how high to keep their thermostats set in the winter to guiding peoples kids to abortionists without parental consent. Totalitarianism is a legitimate concern for sure, but the French have always defined their liberty in those terms. What is really different about France is not that it is more totalitarian than the rest of the west, but that it adopting a uni-cultural French model, and rejecting the multicultural model in vogue since Trudeau’s just society.

 

[Holly3278]

I do not support the wearing of these Muslim burqas at all but I do support religious freedom and so I am uncomfortable with this ban. I can see how wearing a burqa might be a security risk in some ways though.

 

[aicirt]

I can understand them outlawing it in certain places and for certain reasons, photo ID, banks, airports etc. But in general public places as well? It’s simply too absurd.

Islamic law is moronic, that’s for sure. But this is simply a bad move. France’s problems will now get worse!!! Their government has literally put their people are greater risk from Islamic terrorism! Islamic women who are abused will have even stricter rules and restrictions placed on them!!! This law helped nobody!!! And it reeks of totalitarianism!

The government is French. You don’t kow-tow to every group getting off the boat. They knew when they came to France that it was not a Muslim country. Trust me. Go to a Muslim country such as Saudi, Kuwait, etc. and you would not be allowed to drive a car nor wear what they consider immodest clothing.

“They’re at greater risk from Islamic terrorism”…appease them!! By all means. It worked so well with Chamberlain.

Check and you’ll find there are laws on the books restricting people from wearing masks except on Halloween. The law was passed for a reason.

 

[qui_est_ce]

It does not follow American ideals of individual freedom, but France has defined their freedom along a different path than America. Pride in French culture is paramount over religious freedoms in France.

It amazes me that Americans presume to know what is good for France, as though French jurisprudence is based on the same principles as American jurisprudence.

I won’t predict. already you have thugs cutting women ‘smilies’ from lip to ear for not wearing veils like proper women ought to. It is for the French to decide was it proper dress rather than the Muslim thugs.

Well put!

The “head scarf in schools” issue went ahead without a hitch.

And the head scarf doesn’t even cover the face.

I personally don’t see the burqa as a sign of individual freedom for Muslim women, but as a form of repression and imposition upon them by others. The French no doubt see things that way too. Making the burqa illegal will in effect make those imposing the burqa on their women outside of the law, right where they belong.

That is the purpose of the law. Now Muslims want Europeans to accept Sharia law . They’ve already succeeded in England.

It is not a multicultural model that the French are pursing here. This is a clear message to both indigenous French and to immigrants that citizens of France are expected to share in the French culture, and become French. It is not the melting pot model of e pluribus unum that Americans traditionally have followed, not the multicultural model that is being increasingly followed in Canada and America, but an unabashedly French model. **It states that being French is expected by all who live on French soil, and that French is not a skin tone, but a culture and a way of life. **

This is something the US is facing with the current immigration problems. Press "1 for English is ubiquitous.

The French are showing some spine here and some confidence that the French culture is indeed something of great value worthy of being emulated. It is about time that some Europeans started showing pride in their own cultures again.

YES!

The government is French. You don’t kow-tow to every group getting off the boat. They knew when they came to France that it was not a Muslim country. Trust me. Go to a Muslim country such as Saudi, Kuwait, etc. and you would not be allowed to drive a car nor wear what they consider immodest clothing.

“They’re at greater risk from Islamic terrorism”…appease them!! By all means. It worked so well with Chamberlain.

“Those who don’t know history are destined to repeat it.” Edmund Burke (1729-1797)

Check and you’ll find there are laws on the books restricting people from wearing masks except on Halloween. The law was passed for a reason.

In the US as well as in France. The face veil has nothing to do with religious freedom.

I come from a multicultural background. I was born in Germany, my mother was French at the time I was born. My father was German American. We spoke German in our household, because that was the only language my parents had in common. We moved to the States when I was two, but I didn’t learn English until I entered kindergarten. We continued to speak only German in our home. It was verboten to speak English!

My experience growing up this way was to celebrate your culture at home, but expect to embrace the country you live in. My mother consciously CHOSE to become an American in 1955.

Today, how many immigrants, legal or illegal, celebrate the culture to which emigrated?

 

[momor]

My experience growing up this way was to celebrate your culture at home, but expect to embrace the country you live in. My mother consciously CHOSE to become an American in 1955.

This is exactly how it should be done! Not by living in conclaves or taking over entire neighborhoods so you can live like you never left the homeland. The only adults that I think are excused from learning English and becoming acculturated are the elderly or infirm that live with their children/relatives who take care of them.

 

[momor]

Spain is also considering a ban on burqas

Spain’s leading opposition party said Sunday the country’s parliament will debate a proposal to bar the use of burqas in public, joining other European countries considering similar moves on the grounds that such garments are degrading to women.
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100718/ap_on_re_eu/eu_spain_islamic_veils_3

Of note in the article is a quote from an Islamic source:

Mansur Escudero, spokesman for Spain’s Islamic Commission said there was no religious mandate to wear burqas and the garment was “extravagant.”

However, Escudero said wearing the burqa did not attack moral standards and should not be offensive, but most of all it was a personal choice. “To legislate against its use undermined civil liberties,” Escudero said.

“If a woman wants to wear one, then why shouldn’t she?” he said.

 

[aicirt]

brusselsjournal.com/node/1609

Here’s a recent article on the Muslimization of Europe from Brussels. A few Dutch have spoken to us also stating if they were younger, they’d get out. Why? Because they no longer see Holland as a European country but a Muslim country in a few short years. Same can and is probably happening here.

 

[JimG]

brusselsjournal.com/node/1609

Here’s a recent article on the Muslimization of Europe from Brussels. A few Dutch have spoken to us also stating if they were younger, they’d get out. Why? Because they no longer see Holland as a European country but a Muslim country in a few short years. Same can and is probably happening here.

An interesting article.

“Van den Boogaard says that to him coping with the islamization of Europe is like “a process of mourning.” He is overwhelmed by a “feeling of sadness.” “I am not a warrior,” he says, “but who is? I have never learned to fight for my freedom. I was only good at enjoying it.””

 

[Gift_from_God]

I’m actually against this because of freedom of expression.

 

[momor]

brusselsjournal.com/node/1609

Here’s a recent article on the Muslimization of Europe from Brussels. A few Dutch have spoken to us also stating if they were younger, they’d get out. Why? Because they no longer see Holland as a European country but a Muslim country in a few short years. Same can and is probably happening here.

Also from the article:

The number of Muslims in contemporary Europe is estimated to be 50 million. It is expected to double in twenty years. By 2025, one third of all European children will be born to Muslim families. Today Mohammed is already the most popular name for new-born boys in Brussels, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, and other major European cities.

Makes me thankful our illegal immigrants are largely Catholic.

 

[1voice]

The same people group that have a reputation throughout the world for terrorism within their ranks … are also required by their own laws … to wear masks. What a coincidence.

 

[qui_est_ce]

The same people group that have a reputation throughout the world for terrorism within their ranks … are also required by their own laws … to wear masks. What a coincidence.

Indeed, face veil, euphemism for mask.

 

[Guyonthestreet]

Reuters

Interesting point in the article about making a political point.

Someone I met here knows a muslim woman who wears the niqab and hijab. She openly tells the women she works with it’s to make a statement. Her husband and her religion do not require it, but she feels she wants to show the world something and make a point. In her own words, she has no other reason to wear it whatsoever.

Personally, I’m glad I now work in a country that is tolerant of her personal choice and sartorial freedoms regardless of her reason for wearing them.

Some politician or other here has already said the UK will not be following France’s example.

Good.