C.N.A. Report "German bishops commit to 'newly assessing' Catholic doctrine on homosexuality and sexual morality"

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Part 2 of Translation:

Two members of the German linguistic group, and of the Roman Synod of bishops in October 2015, Archbishop Koch and Bishop Bode, underlined the importance of a solid, human Sciences and theology-based discussion, and highlighted in Amoris laetitia already observable developments. Thus, a sexual relationship after divorce and remarriage is no longer qualified as a serious sin and thus no longer provides for a general exclusion from receiving the Eucharist.

The results of the expert consultation will be incorporated into the forum of the Synodal path “living in successful relationships – love living in sexuality and partnership”, which will begin its work in February 2020.
 
flamingpuppet said:
To say “homosexuality is normal” is not a “normal” thing for a Catholic Bishop to say.
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If I say to you that homosexuality arises in a % of persons for no obvious reason and is not the choice of any of them - would you concur? I can understand home some would take that as a sufficient basis to call the condition “normal”. But that also requires one to agree that being born blind is “normal”. And in that same limited sense, it is. But as I said earlier, certainly not the language I’d use, and this and other elements of the Bishops’ statement give rise to some concern.
 
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Rau said:
If I say to you that homosexuality arises in a % of persons for no obvious reason and is not the choice of any of them - would you concur?
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No I would not concur. Homosexuality is the product of upbringing and/or environment and/or choice.
Nobody is born gay.
 
thistle said:
No I would not concur. Homosexuality is the product of upbringing and/or environment and/or choice.
Nobody is born gay.
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Indeed, some people still believe that.

But the official Catholic teaching, as far as I know, is that we simply don’t know.
 
signit said:
Indeed, some people still believe that.

But the official Catholic teaching, as far as I know, is that we simply don’t know.
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The Church does not have a position on this.
I put forward my view. There is no gay gene. Its a myth that gays put out there to try to justify their lifestyle.
 
thistle said:
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Rau:
If I say to you that homosexuality arises in a % of persons for no obvious reason and is not the choice of any of them - would you concur?
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No I would not concur. Homosexuality is the product of upbringing and/or environment and/or choice.
Nobody is born gay.
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Even assuming for the sake of argument that some people become gay because of something in their environment in the womb or growing up, that still does not make it a choice nor is there a known and obvious cause.
 
repentant2 said:
Cancer arises in a certain % of people without them choosing but having cancer is not normal for human beings.
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I think that it is “normal” for a certain percentage of the population to get cancer. A large percentage of cancers occur because of errors that spontaneously take place when DNA is replicated during cell division. Considering how many billions of cells we have, it’s “normal” for a certain small number of these replication errors to occur. It’s amazing that there aren’t even more such errors.
 
thistle said:
There is no gay gene. Its a myth that gays put out there to try to justify their lifestyle.
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The “gay gene” is a strawman. You assert nothing could possibly go wrong in the formation of a human being that upsets the process/mechanism that determines to which sex one is attracted? You absolutely exclude that possibility? What is it then that saw me (male) experience an attraction to girls?
 
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repentant2 said:
Cancer arises in a certain % of people without them choosing but having cancer is not normal for human beings.
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That is the manner in which I would use the word too. But a proportion do. In a sense, that is “normal”. I’m suggesting how others might have used the language.
Tolle_Lege said:
Pope Francis warned the Germans about taking this type of path back in June, then another warning came from the Vatican a couple months ago. Apparently both warnings were ignored.
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Do you have a reference to these warnings?
repentant2 said:
That errors occur naturally, doesn’t not make them natural.
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I think it does. Personally - I would say it does not make them “normal”. Our usual meaning of “normal” in medical contexts encompasses “healthy”. Our usual meaning of a “normal sexual orientation” is to the opposite sex. Earlier, I speculated on a possible alternative use of the word “normal” that fit with the bishops’ statement.
 
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Rau said:
Our usual meaning of a “normal sexual orientation” is to the opposite sex.
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According to the Cambridge Dictionary, “normal” just means that something is “ordinary or usual; as would be expected.” That doesn’t mean that something that isn’t usual or ordinary is necessarily bad.
 
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Thorolfr said:
That doesn’t mean that something that isn’t usual or ordinary is necessarily bad.
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Eyes should provide sight. The inclination to a sexual relationship - which incorporates Sexual intercourse - ought reasonably be toward the opposite sex. That gives rather more meaning to the biological aspects.
 
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Thorolfr said:
Even assuming for the sake of argument that some people become gay because of something in their environment in the womb or growing up, that still does not make it a choice nor is there a known and obvious cause.
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Do you mean
(A) the choice to have SSA? or
(B) the choice to act on SSA?
 
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thistle said:
I put forward my view. There is no gay gene. Its a myth that gays put out there to try to justify their lifestyle
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you have no proof that there is no gene. So it isn’t a myth. It just means they haven’t discovered one. The possibility exists that one could be found.

Although some people end up in gay lifestyles due to environment etc. There are cases of twins where one is gay and the other is not. At this point in time we don’t even know what makes us attracted to the opposite sex let alone the same sex.
 
ARTICLE: “the bishops agreed that homosexuality is a “normal form” of human sexual identity.”
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so that would make heterosexuality the “abnormal form”?

if homosexuality is “normal form”, what is the “abnormal form” reference point?
ARTICE: Koch went on to say that “developments” made possible by Amoris laetitia , Pope Francis’ exhortation of marriage and the family, the Church must consider the latest scientific and theological insights on human sexuality. .
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So Amoris Laetitia opened the door to this, which is why you never compromise on morals. Once you do, it will be used in an “incremental” approach (as here) to justify further compromise until your doctrine is gone.
 
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