Calling on all Protestants on this forum!

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John 6:51: I am the living bread which, i came down from heaven, if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever, and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my FLESH.

John 6:52: The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying,“How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

John 6:53 So Jesus said to them" truly, truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. ( The Greek word to eat is Torgo which means to rip, gnaw flesh)

John 6:54 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:60 Many of His disciples, when they heard it said, this is a hard saying who can listen to it?

John 6:66 After this many of His disciples drew back and no longer went about with Him in 6:67 Jesus said to the twelve, “Will you also go away?” (Jesus audience was scandalised for they knew He was speaking of His real presence, not a symbolic presence in the Eucharist. Jesus would have told them if he was speaking metaphorically or symbolically. But He never did, for He meant what he said)

I know you are going to say, ya but what about John 6:63 It is the spirit that give s life, the flesh is of no avail…
Jesus was not talking about His own flesh, but rather our bodies that die and end up in the grave. But our spirits or souls live on in eternity, nourished not only by the word of God, but also by the Holy Eucharist.

May God Bless you and may He lead you to the fullness of the truth.
 
dennisknapp said:
I am imploring, begging, beseeching any Protestant to provide positive evidence for thier beliefs that are not shared in common with historical Christianity.

Please provide evidence for:

Communion is only symbolic; not salvific.

That baptism is only symbolic; not salvific.

Marian doctrine is a late innovation of the Roman Catholic Church.

That Apostolic Succession was not taught in the early Church.
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Lets take a couple of topics here. Are you saying that the Marian doctrines were taught by the apostles?

Where in the early church was it Apostolic Succession taught?
 
alanjeddy said:
John 6:51: I am the living bread which, i came down from heaven, if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever, and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my FLESH.

John 6:52: The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying,“How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

John 6:53 So Jesus said to them" truly, truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. ( The Greek word to eat is Torgo which means to rip, gnaw flesh)

John 6:54 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:60 Many of His disciples, when they heard it said, this is a hard saying who can listen to it?

John 6:66 After this many of His disciples drew back and no longer went about with Him in 6:67 Jesus said to the twelve, “Will you also go away?” (Jesus audience was scandalised for they knew He was speaking of His real presence, not a symbolic presence in the Eucharist. Jesus would have told them if he was speaking metaphorically or symbolically. But He never did, for He meant what he said)

I know you are going to say, ya but what about John 6:63 It is the spirit that give s life, the flesh is of no avail…
Jesus was not talking about His own flesh, but rather our bodies that die and end up in the grave. But our spirits or souls live on in eternity, nourished not only by the word of God, but also by the Holy Eucharist.

May God Bless you and may He lead you to the fullness of the truth.
Click to expand...
Where did the apostles teach that the Eucharist itself has some special power to impart some kind of “nourishment” for the soul?
 
alanjeddy said:
John 6:51: I am the living bread which, i came down from heaven, if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever, and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my FLESH.

John 6:52: The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying,“How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

John 6:53 So Jesus said to them" truly, truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. ( The Greek word to eat is Torgo which means to rip, gnaw flesh)

John 6:54 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:60 Many of His disciples, when they heard it said, this is a hard saying who can listen to it?

John 6:66 After this many of His disciples drew back and no longer went about with Him in 6:67 Jesus said to the twelve, “Will you also go away?” (Jesus audience was scandalised for they knew He was speaking of His real presence, not a symbolic presence in the Eucharist. Jesus would have told them if he was speaking metaphorically or symbolically. But He never did, for He meant what he said)

I know you are going to say, ya but what about John 6:63 It is the spirit that give s life, the flesh is of no avail…
Jesus was not talking about His own flesh, but rather our bodies that die and end up in the grave. But our spirits or souls live on in eternity, nourished not only by the word of God, but also by the Holy Eucharist.

May God Bless you and may He lead you to the fullness of the truth.
Click to expand...
Biblical references for food for the soul: Mt 6:11; 14:22-23; 26:26-29; Jn 6:27,35, 48:58; Acts 2:42
 
EUCHARIST AND PROTESTANTS
Code: 
 My understanding is that all Christians believe in the 'real presence' of Christ at communion. The difference is that Protestants don't believe that the elements are changed into the literal body and blood of Christ. 

  Indeed, isn't Christ present everywhere? Doesn't God's presence fill the entire universe? 

  Protestants and most American Catholics have trouble believing the basic RCC doctrine of transubstantiation. Jesus spoke in allegories often ("I am the door" "I am the gate") that were not to be taken literally. Isn't there something primitive, even cannibalistic, about eating body and blood? It sounds so superstitious in the 21st century. Didn't the Old Testament actually forbid the eating of blood? Why is it so 'heretical' to celebrate the presence of Christ at communion without the notion that the elements are changed in the manner that the RCC maintains?

  Merry Christmas!
 
Roy5 said:
EUCHARIST AND PROTESTANTS
Code: 
 My understanding is that all Christians believe in the 'real presence' of Christ at communion. The difference is that Protestants don't believe that the elements are changed into the literal body and blood of Christ. 

  Indeed, isn't Christ present everywhere? Doesn't God's presence fill the entire universe? 

  Protestants and most American Catholics have trouble believing the basic RCC doctrine of transubstantiation. Jesus spoke in allegories often ("I am the door" "I am the gate") that were not to be taken literally. Isn't there something primitive, even cannibalistic, about eating body and blood? It sounds so superstitious in the 21st century. Didn't the Old Testament actually forbid the eating of blood? Why is it so 'heretical' to celebrate the presence of Christ at communion without the notion that the elements are changed in the manner that the RCC maintains?

  Merry Christmas!
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Read my references in John Chapter 6 in my post again. I think i made a strong argument why Jesus was talking about His real presence. He was not talking in metaphors He meant what He said. If you go back to the original Greek the word TORGO is used for to eat and it means to rip and gnaw flesh or meat.

Merry Christmas and may we all look to the commonalities of our Christian faiths. Oh by the way did you know that Lutherans believe in the real presence too?
 
justasking4 said:
Lets take a couple of topics here. Are you saying that the Marian doctrines were taught by the apostles?

Where in the early church was it Apostolic Succession taught?
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(2 Tim. 3:14-17) in verse 14, Timothy is initially exhorted to hold to the oral teachings- the traditions- that he received from the apostle Paul. This echoes Paul’s reminder of the value of oral tradition in 1:13-14, “Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us (RSV) and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to the faithful men who will be able to teach others also” (2:2).
 
dennisknapp said:
I am imploring, begging, beseeching any Protestant to provide positive evidence for thier beliefs that are not shared in common with historical Christianity.

Please provide evidence for:

Communion is only symbolic; not salvific.

That baptism is only symbolic; not salvific.

Marian doctrine is a late innovation of the Roman Catholic Church.

That Apostolic Succession was not taught in the early Church.
Click to expand...
Communion and Baptism are both spelled out in Scriptures. So that does not fit the criteria of beliefs not shared. I can’t help it if some people don’t fully understand. Catholics have the same problem with not understanding everything and often state erroneous beliefs that do not match Catholicism.

That said, I don’t believe Marian dogmas cannot be supported using 1st century sources. Since Protestants are not claiming anything extra about the Virgin Mary, I believe the burden of proof lies with Catholics.

Apostolic succession. Can you provide any evidence at all that Peter was ever even in Rome?
 
Ginger2 said:
Communion and Baptism are both spelled out in Scriptures. So that does not fit the criteria of beliefs not shared. I can’t help it if some people don’t fully understand. Catholics have the same problem with not understanding everything and often state erroneous beliefs that do not match Catholicism.

That said, I don’t believe Marian dogmas cannot be supported using 1st century sources. Since Protestants are not claiming anything extra about the Virgin Mary, I believe the burden of proof lies with Catholics.

Apostolic succession. Can you provide any evidence at all that Peter was ever even in Rome?
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His remains are beneath St Peters Cathederal in Rome. Was he brought there posthumously?
 
dennisknapp said:
I posted this on another thread but received no response so I am posting it here.
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Church history is just that - church history. It records what men did and believed. History is not the standard on which we form the doctrines of our faith. Otherwise you’re simply choosing your leaders (1 Cor. 1:12-13).
 
alanjeddy said:
His remains are beneath St Peters Cathederal in Rome. Was he brought there posthumously?
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Was he wearing a dog tag to identify him? There’s a church built up over a tomb they believe was Christ’s too.

Church history actually records how men have strayed away from the simplicity of “the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3).
 
alanjeddy said:
justasking4;3088706:
Read the last sentence in my Timothy quote:…What you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also…

Paul is laying down a guideline for Timothy to make use of Scripture and tradition in his ministry as a Catholic bishop.
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Again, Paul knew nothing of the Marian doctrines. He was not entrusting any of this or many other doctrines of the catholic church to Timothy.
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alanjeddy said:
justasking4;3088925:
I don’t think the Protestant churches have any right to discern false teachings. Look at all the splintered protestant faiths, all 330,000 of them. Something is not working. Watch the Journey Home on EWTN 8:00 PM on Mondays. There’s no authorrity in your 300,000 interpretations of the truth. Something isn’t working.
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Do all Protestant churches believe that Christ was God and died for our sins?

Do you know of one that does not?
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