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fix
Guest
Liberalism is condemed by the church.
I am curious. What political issues do you embrace that make you call yourself a political liberal?
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I am curious. What political issues do you embrace that make you call yourself a political liberal?
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Richardols
Guest
freedom of the press, freedom of religion, democracy, the belief that government can be part of our service to the poor, rejection of censorship, a belief that our country has an obligation to the poor of other countries (I believe that most loans to poor countries should be forgiven), a reluctance to resort to war to solve our problems (I am foursquare with the Pope in his opposition to the Iraqi wars). Those are just a few.
By the way, the first five were rejected by the 19th century Popes because those were liberal tenets.
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Brad
Guest
Amen brother. Although we may be better off holding the fort down. Logically speaking, the younger orthodox will soon become the older orthodox and all should be better. I think religous persecution will be high but by this point, I’m hoping it is only coming from external sources.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Excuse me, you said that these were rejected by the “19th century Popes” because they were liberal tenets.
I’d like to see a source which specifically says just that, please. Thanks. . .
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iserve
Guest
The tide is turning already. Catholics, who tradtionally have voted Democrat, and nearly always for other Catholics, voted for George Bush in the last election. Clearly, these Catholics were convinced by the truth, and not the self-proclaiming “Catholicism” of John Kerry. This is a huge step out of the “personally opposed, but. . .”, society-driven box that the previous generation embraced, not because it was the right thing, but because they could get away with it. As to the preponderance of bishops and cardinals who shepherded American Catholics to the very precipice of a cliff; these were not elected, and only death will rid the Catholic Church in the US of them. I have worked inside the Church for many years, and know many of these “fools” who continue to have their way because the Church doesn’t fire people without the most INTENSE scandal, such as the one we had here in Boston. Even with all that happened, Cardinal Law enjoys his status somewhere else, and all his kind still occupy their seats, despite some extrememly disturbing actions.
The laity, and its’ instruments, (such as web-based conversations like this) desrve lots of credit for demanding accountability, and keeping up the pressure for orthodoxy. I predict that as these old, one-track prelates die off, newer, more devout men will replace them. …and may God bless them for it.
The laity, and its’ instruments, (such as web-based conversations like this) desrve lots of credit for demanding accountability, and keeping up the pressure for orthodoxy. I predict that as these old, one-track prelates die off, newer, more devout men will replace them. …and may God bless them for it.
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Brad
Guest
Freedom OF religion or freedom FROM Christianity? Today’s liberal push the latter.
FREEDOM of the press or CONTROL of the press? Today’s liberals push for the latter.
Rejection of censorship or promotion of immorality? Today’s liberals push for the latter.
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Steve_Andersen
Guest
Liberalism was a 19th century political movement that brought down absolutist governments and set up many of the social constructs that we take for granted today such as old age pensions and universal education
It is responsible for the abolition of serfdom and the extension of the franchise
What exactly in the Liberal movement does the church condemn?
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Lance
Guest
Back to the original question. I don’t see Catholics as the problem with the grownig socialism in America. It is the ultra-liberals of both parties, some of whom are Catholic in name only(CIN). Not all liberal ideas are bad and they should be debated in an open and honest forum. If you want to be pro abortion there is no law against it, however you can’t call yourself a Catholic. If you are pro-abortion and for feeding the hungry, better education, saving the environment and taking better care of our seniors, you are not a Catholic or at best a CIN. It is the CIN and the rest of the liberal camp that America has to be on the guard against. The better question, I think, would be can Catholics save themselves from American ultra-liberals?
When I say ultra-liberals, I am talking about the people who are pro-abortion, pro-fetal stem cell research, pro- human cloning, pro-euthanaisa and the PETA types. I know that all liberals are not in this group. Many liberal ideas a good, such as better education, help for the under privileged and taking care of seniors. We as Catholics should be for tese and some other liberal ideas, but we are free to debate, discuss and differ how to best accomplish these goals.
When I say ultra-liberals, I am talking about the people who are pro-abortion, pro-fetal stem cell research, pro- human cloning, pro-euthanaisa and the PETA types. I know that all liberals are not in this group. Many liberal ideas a good, such as better education, help for the under privileged and taking care of seniors. We as Catholics should be for tese and some other liberal ideas, but we are free to debate, discuss and differ how to best accomplish these goals.
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Richardols
Guest
Tantum ergo:
Sure. “It is insanity to believe that freedom of conscience and of worship is the right of every citizen…that citizens have the right to manifest openly and publicly their ideas, by word of mouth, through the Press or by any other means.” Gregory XVI in *Mirari Vos.
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harris7
Guest
Although I am a Catholic Democrat, and, apparently, politically “liberal” in modern American terms, I am confused by your generalities about liberals, none of which apply to me. Are you perhaps describing a strawman “liberal”?
If you have a moment, please visit the CatholicDemocrats website to read what some of “today’s liberals” really believe.
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Richardols
Guest
What exactly in the Liberal movement does the church condemn?
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Only the notion that human reason is the sole arbiter of truth or falsehood and of good and evil.
The Church condemns anything that rejects God or elevates man above all else. Today, the Church is not the reactionary organization that it was 100+ years ago, but cooperates in advancing human dignity and human justice issues.
[/quote]
Only the notion that human reason is the sole arbiter of truth or falsehood and of good and evil.
The Church condemns anything that rejects God or elevates man above all else. Today, the Church is not the reactionary organization that it was 100+ years ago, but cooperates in advancing human dignity and human justice issues.
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JHutch
Guest
Dj Roy Albert:
As long as they are “Given a Voice” in the Church today they will continue to create dissent and confusion among the Faithful.
The Heretics need to be re-intorduced to Catholic Doctrine. They must be sanctioned in a meaningful way and rehabilitated.
As long as they are “Given a Voice” in the Church today they will continue to create dissent and confusion among the Faithful.
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Richardols
Guest
Is there any other kind to “conservatives”?
Good man. I am not only a Catholic Democrat, but a member of Democrats for Life. Glad to see you on the Board!
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JHutch
Guest
I did and was not immpressed.
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Richardols
Guest
I don’t think that harris7 intended to impress any one of us, but simply to show the position of some Catholic Democrats.
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jlw
Guest
Richardols,
You are speaking of LIBERTY. Liberty is waaaaaaaaaaay different from liberalism, as defined by the modern age. Quite frankly, liberalism is in many ways opposed to liberty, opposed to the freedoms you just listed!! Speech codes at universities?? Against kids praying over their pb&j at he school cafeteria?? Is is the press really “free”???
Luther, in his own way, was the first liberal, in the sense that he snubbed his nose at Church AUTHORITY (though he was right to condemn abuses by the clergy). Look what he ushered in!!! Over 20,000 different protestant chruches, each claiming their interpretation of the bible is correct. RELATIVIST theologies.
The democrats are defined by liberalism. One could argue that he Culture of Death has been supported by republicans too (to be sure!) but it has CERTAINLY been the KEY cog in the wheel of the democratic party platform for nearly 35 years.
THIS IS THE TRUTH: The progressive social agenda re healthcare, taxes, wages, etc will not, repeat WILL NOT EVER work…
…*until *the THEOLOGY OF THE BODY is accepted and the culture is transformed into a culture that respects LIFE from beginning to end, where marriage and motherhood are CELEBRATED, and the traditional family once again becomes stable.
That is the key that JPII understood and implored us to grasp.
Liberals who come to realize as YOU DO, that the Right to Life really, actually exists will see their agendas of “healthcare for all” and “just wages” come much much sooner than it’s current pace.
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Brad
Guest
I did not make an assessment of what Harris7 believes. I am talking about who controls the party, what they vote for, what they fund, and what they support. I did not state generalities about liberals - I stated specifics about what the Democratic party wholeheartedly supports. If you do not personally share those beliefs, you better re-explore your party and what your vote supports.
I briefly reviewed your site. It does not say abortion is wrong, which is intellectually honest because today’s Democratic party lives or dies on the promotion of abortion and contraception and soon euthanasia. Also, it hides from the key issues that are supported, such as pornography, homosexuality, and anti-Christian measures in school by saying that the Church should not be involved in politics.
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aimee
Guest
catholic democrat…
isn’t that an oxymoron 
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Brad
Guest
So, as a Democrat for Life, who did you vote for in this past presidential election?
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Brad
Guest
Although you made several good points, I wanted to highlight the one above as it was very, very, very, very, very good.
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