Can America Save Herself from Catholics?

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You certainly express your opinions! And, that’s good, and nothing I will argue against (I am for freedom of speech).

I do disagree with most of what you say, however, but instead of beginning a long refutation and rebuttal, I’ll simply respect your opinion even as I maintain my own.
 
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Brad:
So, as a Democrat for Life, who did you vote for in this past presidential election?
What sexual position do you and your wife like best?
 
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Richardols:
What sexual position do you and your wife like best?
The Kerry, actually.

Never heard of it?? It involves switching positions as often as possible…
 
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jlw:
The Kerry, actually.

Never heard of it?? It involves switching positions as often as possible…
🙂 🙂 🙂

Never lose one’s sense of humor, even on this Forum!
 
Liberalism was a 19th century political movement that brought down absolutist governments and set up many of the social constructs that we take for granted today such as old age pensions and universal education

It is responsible for the abolition of serfdom and the extension of the franchise

What exactly in the Liberal movement does the church condemn?
[/quote]

Please see new advent:

the most explicit and detailed condemnation, however, was administered to modern Liberalism by Pius IX in the Encyclical “Quanta cura” of 8 December, 1864 and the attached Syllabus. Pius X condemned it again in his allocution of 17 April, 1907, and in the Decree of the Congregation of the Inquisition of 3 July, 1907, in which the principal errors of Modernism were rejected and censured in sixty-five propositions. The older and principally political form of false Liberal Catholicism had been condemned by the Encyclical of Gregory XVI, “Mirari Vos”, of 15 August, 1832 and by many briefs of Pius IX (see Ségur, “Hommage aux Catholiques Libéraux”, Paris, 1875).

The definition of the papal infallibility by the Vatican council was virtually a condemnation of Liberalism. Besides this many recent decisions concern the principal errors of Liberalism. Of great importance in this respect are the allocutions and encyclicals of Pius IX, Leo XIII, and Pius X. (Cf., Recueil des allocutions consistorales encycliques . . . citées dans le Syllabus", Paris, 1865) and the encyclicals of Leo XIII of 20 January, 1888, “On Human Liberty”; of 21 April, 1878, “On the Evils of Modern Society”; of 28 December, 1878, “On the Sects of the Socialists, Communists, and Nihilists”; of 4 August, 1879, “On Christian Philosophy”; of 10 February, 1880, “On Matrimony”; of 29 July, 1881, “On the Origin of Civil Power”; of 20 April, 1884, “On Freemasonry”; of 1 November, 1885, “On the Christian State”; of 25 December, 1888, “On the Christian Life”; of 10 January, 1890, “On the Chief Duties of a Christian Citizen”; of 15 May, 1891, “On the Social Question”; of 20 January, 1894, “On the Importance of Unity in Faith and Union with the Church for the Preservation of the Moral Foundations of the State”; of 19 March, 1902, “On the Persecution of the Church all over the World”. Full information about the relation of the Church towards Liberalism in the different countries may be gathered from the transactions and decisions of the various provincial councils. These can be found in the “Collectio Lacensis” under the headings of the index: Fides, Ecclesia, Educatio, Francomuratores.
 
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Richardols:
freedom of the press, freedom of religion, democracy, the belief that government can be part of our service to the poor, rejection of censorship, a belief that our country has an obligation to the poor of other countries (I believe that most loans to poor countries should be forgiven), a reluctance to resort to war to solve our problems (I am foursquare with the Pope in his opposition to the Iraqi wars). Those are just a few.

By the way, the first five were rejected by the 19th century Popes because those were liberal tenets.
The positions mentioned are not unique to modern day political liberlaism. License is more akin to modern day political liberalism.

You view of Church history needs to be supported by references.
 
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Richardols:
What sexual position do you and your wife like best?
Sounds like a Democrat question. Will you answer mine or are life and death just games?
 
Dj Roy Albert:
I see the “American catholic church” breaking away from Rome with in the next decade.

I thought it would have happened by now & it has somewhat, but not as openly as some people want. The election of the our next orthodox Pope will give rise to this seperation.

We need heretics to literally get the hell out of our Church.
Agreed! What you say has a salt of truth to that. Those who hope for married priesthood, changes in doctrine is wishful thinking. Look at what’s happened dissent in doctrine, liturgical and missalete abuse, people demanding democracy, the liberalism that sprang loose from Vatican II documents, these are some of the many things that lead to the Protestant Reformation. Our country is looking like what Nazi Germany was before WWII. Blessed Jacinta, “If men do not cease offending God, the greatest chastisement ever known to man will occur.” If we don’t watch it, it could happen during the reign of the next Pope.

Padre Pio “The Rosary is the weapon.”
 
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Richardols:
Only the notion that human reason is the sole arbiter of truth or falsehood and of good and evil.

The Church condemns anything that rejects God or elevates man above all else. Today, the Church is not the reactionary organization that it was 100+ years ago, but cooperates in advancing human dignity and human justice issues.
Reactionary? That would be like calling you a relativist.
 
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Richardols:
You certainly express your opinions! And, that’s good, and nothing I will argue against (I am for freedom of speech).

I do disagree with most of what you say, however, but instead of beginning a long refutation and rebuttal, I’ll simply respect your opinion even as I maintain my own.
By no means do I argue that YOU are against freedom or some such thing!!

But you disagree that the Right to Life and a culture that respects Life would more likely usher in the Catholic agenda of “social justice”???

LIFE is the horse. “Healthcare for all” is the cart. You disagree??
 
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Richardols:
The Church condemns anything that rejects God or elevates man above all else. Today, the Church is not the reactionary organization that it was 100+ years ago, but cooperates in advancing human dignity and human justice issues.
If the Church was so wrong then, what makes you think She is right now?
 
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Richardols:
I don’t think that harris7 intended to impress any one of us, but simply to show the position of some Catholic Democrats.
I guess what I expected was clear evidence that one could be both Catholic and a Democrat and Vote for anyone on the Democratic Ticket in good conscience. (Not withstanding that a Catholic could vote for any Candidate on any other Ticket in good conscience).

All I had to do was look at the arguements for killing the un-born and I saw quotes taken out of context which neither condemn nor promote killing of the unborn but, which in essence say, the Church isn’t going to / and shouldn’t meddle in the political laws of nations. You as individuals must make up your own minds on the issue, ." whatever the issue may be.

That rational sounded familiar to me…

" I am personally (as a Catholic) against abortion!!! But, as an elected leader of the people , I am duty bound to represent the majority view of the people that I represent! It is unfortunate that majority that elected me believes that abortion should be be the law of the land! But that is what they elected me to affirm."

…then on my taskbar I saw the button for the “CatholicDemocrats” web page… but the button did not say “Catholic Democrats” it said “Catholics for Kerry.” and I was not impressed.
 
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harris7:
Although I am a Catholic Democrat, and, apparently, politically “liberal” in modern American terms, I am confused by your generalities about liberals, none of which apply to me. Are you perhaps describing a strawman “liberal”?

If you have a moment, please visit the CatholicDemocrats website to read what some of “today’s liberals” really believe.
Here is a mainstream liberal thing to do:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=47163

As a Catholic, is this a good thing?
 
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fix:
Please see new advent:

the most explicit and detailed condemnation, however, was administered to modern Liberalism by Pius IX in the Encyclical “Quanta cura” of 8 December, 1864 and the attached Syllabus. Pius X condemned it again in his allocution of 17 April, 1907, and in the Decree of the Congregation of the Inquisition of 3 July, 1907, in which the principal errors of Modernism were rejected and censured in sixty-five propositions.
Modern Liberalism? Citing examples from the 19th Century? And from Gregory XVI, the arch reactionary, who even condemned the railroads as well as liberalism?

Start reading the modern 20th century Popes’ positions on the issues that liberalism supported, men like Pius XI, XII, and especially John Paul II. See if they reject freedom of the press and religious liberty. See if they insist on obedience to one’s prince as Pius IX did?

See if they find the liberalism that our Founding Fathers based our Constitution on as distasteful as those 19th century Popes did.
 
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Brad:
If the Church was so wrong then, what makes you think She is right now?
Compare the reactionary Gregory XVI with John Paul II. Why might you think that I believe that the latter is right and the former wrong?
 
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Ghosty:
Same here, buddy. If some, or even most, of American Catholics want to become Episcopalians, let them. I’m sticking with Rome. Period.
As will I.
 
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Richardols:
Modern Liberalism? Citing examples from the 19th Century? And from Gregory XVI, the arch reactionary, who even condemned the railroads as well as liberalism?

Start reading the modern 20th century Popes’ positions on the issues that liberalism supported, men like Pius XI, XII, and especially John Paul II. See if they reject freedom of the press and religious liberty. See if they insist on obedience to one’s prince as Pius IX did?

See if they find the liberalism that our Founding Fathers based our Constitution on as distasteful as those 19th century Popes did.
Again, references? Are you claiming the Church now embraces Liberalism? How about the heresy of modernism? Is that now true?
 
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