Can emotional pain justify divorce?

[styrgwillidar]

My question is this: Does ongoing emotional pain justify a divorce? I’m asking for personal opinions as well as any Church teachings.

Here’s my situation: I’ve been married for 16 years. The first 3 years were “normal” in terms of emotional and physical intimacy. AFter our first child was born, my wife became afraid of all physical contact. Even holding hands and hugs. She may have some form of PTSD. We have gone to several counselors over the last 13 years to no real avail. I am depressed, but somewhat able to function thanks to the marvel of modern medicine. My psychological state is very fragile and I often feel extreme sadness and anger when I am getting into and out of bed with my wife. I am just feeling like I can’t continue this situation. The problem is that we have 4 sons ranging from ages 5 to 13. I don’t want to hurt them because of my emotional weakness, but it’s getting to the point where I am ready to give up. Some days I can barely function. My wife has hope that our situation will get better, but I don’t have any reason to hope that it will. I am burned out and beyond trying to fix it. What is a good Catholic man to do?

Thoughts?

Have you considered getting a motorcycle or skydiving? Something to make you feel alive? Something to reinvigorate you and fight the burn out?

 

[underacloud]

mnpapist,

It sounds like you are hurting a lot from lack of intimacy and I feel for you. Hopefully you can find some support and an approach that helps you deal with your emotional pain.

But with that said, I don’t see how your circumstances at all justify contemplating separation and/or divorce. It seems like you are going through the “for worse” part of the “for better or for worse” vows.

Be aware that if you separate, you are more than likely merely swapping your own emotional pain for that of your four sons. Separation/divorce is very tough on children.

And separation/divorce is extremely tough on men. Look up statistics for depression and suicide among divorced men. And if you separate/divorce, how does that at all resolve your desire for intimacy?

I think the ideas of separate beds/rooms is a good one for starters, and styrgwillidar’s idea of finding something to do for yourself, whether that’s new adrelanin-charged adventures or maybe just some more conservative hobbies/interests. Make yourself more busy.

 

[Xantippe]

I think the ideas of separate beds/rooms is a good one for starters, and styrgwillidar’s idea of finding something to do for yourself, whether that’s new adrelanin-charged adventures or maybe just some more conservative hobbies/interests. Make yourself more busy.

Right. Hobbies are good.

 

[SWolf]

My question is this: Does ongoing emotional pain justify a divorce? I’m asking for personal opinions as well as any Church teachings.

Here’s my situation: I’ve been married for 16 years. The first 3 years were “normal” in terms of emotional and physical intimacy. AFter our first child was born, my wife became afraid of all physical contact. Even holding hands and hugs. She may have some form of PTSD. We have gone to several counselors over the last 13 years to no real avail. I am depressed, but somewhat able to function thanks to the marvel of modern medicine. My psychological state is very fragile and I often feel extreme sadness and anger when I am getting into and out of bed with my wife. I am just feeling like I can’t continue this situation. The problem is that we have 4 sons ranging from ages 5 to 13. I don’t want to hurt them because of my emotional weakness, but it’s getting to the point where I am ready to give up. Some days I can barely function. My wife has hope that our situation will get better, but I don’t have any reason to hope that it will. I am burned out and beyond trying to fix it. What is a good Catholic man to do?

Thoughts?

Let me get this straight. The first three years of marriage were normal in terms of intimacy, then, like a light switch, she’s “afraid” of physical contact?

Nope. She’s not attracted to you. She might actually be as far as completely repulsed by you.

Are you overweight? Lift and eat better.
Are you whining? Stop it.
Do you have no passions/hobbies? Get some. Play with the kids then get out of the house, without her.
Do you tiptoe around so as to not offend her? Stop worrying about it, it’s not attractive.
Is your job a bore? Get a new one.

“Romantic” dinners, holding hands, etc. are just passive aggressive ways to get what you want. It’s no wonder they don’t work. Diplomacy never makes someone physically attracted to you.

She might come around, she might not. If she doesn’t, at least you will feel better about yourself.

 

[mnpapist]

A lot of this rings true and is probably a huge piece of it. She has admitted as much, and I guess I realizing she is not attracted makes me think “forget this” I’m done. If she isn’t attracted to me, what’s the point?
I have no motivation to lift or eat better. I’m 5’8" 180# She has said I am unattractive. I don’t care. I would like to start running a little bit.
I have been trying to do some hobbies that make me happy, but there is little time with 4 kids in the house.
Leaving for any length of time puts a very hard strain on her because one of our kids has emotional issues and fights 24x7. We’re seeking help for that.
The idea of doing something to be more attractive to her just makes me angry. Who can keep up with what someone else’s idea of “attractive” is? That seems like a good way to make myself crazy.
Get a new job? Easier said than done. I have invested years to get where I am and am not in a position to just switch jobs, not to mention the loss of income associated with that.

Let me get this straight. The first three years of marriage were normal in terms of intimacy, then, like a light switch, she’s “afraid” of physical contact?

Nope. She’s not attracted to you. She might actually be as far as completely repulsed by you.

Are you overweight? Lift and eat better.
Are you whining? Stop it.
Do you have no passions/hobbies? Get some. Play with the kids then get out of the house, without her.
Do you tiptoe around so as to not offend her? Stop worrying about it, it’s not attractive.
Is your job a bore? Get a new one.

“Romantic” dinners, holding hands, etc. are just passive aggressive ways to get what you want. It’s no wonder they don’t work. Diplomacy never makes someone physically attracted to you.

She might come around, she might not. If she doesn’t, at least you will feel better about yourself.

 

[mnpapist]

Thanks for your reply. This has helped to remind me that divorce is not a good answer. The idea of separate beds is scary just because I feel we will grow further apart, but it might be necessary at this point. I believe in for better or worse, but it has been “worse” for 13 of 16 years. When does it get “better”?

mnpapist,

It sounds like you are hurting a lot from lack of intimacy and I feel for you. Hopefully you can find some support and an approach that helps you deal with your emotional pain.

But with that said, I don’t see how your circumstances at all justify contemplating separation and/or divorce. It seems like you are going through the “for worse” part of the “for better or for worse” vows.

Be aware that if you separate, you are more than likely merely swapping your own emotional pain for that of your four sons. Separation/divorce is very tough on children.

And separation/divorce is extremely tough on men. Look up statistics for depression and suicide among divorced men. And if you separate/divorce, how does that at all resolve your desire for intimacy?

I think the ideas of separate beds/rooms is a good one for starters, and styrgwillidar’s idea of finding something to do for yourself, whether that’s new adrelanin-charged adventures or maybe just some more conservative hobbies/interests. Make yourself more busy.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

Have you tried the Love Dare Book from the movie Fireproof? It probably won’t cure the intimacy/sex issue, but it may bring the two of you closer in some way. thelovedarebook.com/

 

[mnpapist]

This may have been the most on-point response yet. As I read it again, I am thinking about “what would make me happy?”. The only answer that comes up is “leaving”. I honestly don’t believe anything I do will make her attracted to me. Not to mention me not being attracted to her after 13 years of rejection. Maybe separate living spaces is warranted at this point. Thanks again for your reply.

Let me get this straight. The first three years of marriage were normal in terms of intimacy, then, like a light switch, she’s “afraid” of physical contact?

Nope. She’s not attracted to you. She might actually be as far as completely repulsed by you.

Are you overweight? Lift and eat better.
Are you whining? Stop it.
Do you have no passions/hobbies? Get some. Play with the kids then get out of the house, without her.
Do you tiptoe around so as to not offend her? Stop worrying about it, it’s not attractive.
Is your job a bore? Get a new one.

“Romantic” dinners, holding hands, etc. are just passive aggressive ways to get what you want. It’s no wonder they don’t work. Diplomacy never makes someone physically attracted to you.

She might come around, she might not. If she doesn’t, at least you will feel better about yourself.

 

[mnpapist]

Thanks for the suggestion, but we are way beyond trying this. We have tried Retrouvaille, Marriage Encounter, and a dozen therapists who don’t know anything. We saw the movie, but I’m not even interested in becoming closer anymore. I feel it’s a lost cause.

Have you tried the Love Dare Book from the movie Fireproof? It probably won’t cure the intimacy/sex issue, but it may bring the two of you closer in some way. thelovedarebook.com/

 

[EasterJoy]

This may have been the most on-point response yet. As I read it again, I am thinking about “what would make me happy?”. The only answer that comes up is “leaving”. I honestly don’t believe anything I do will make her attracted to me. Not to mention me not being attracted to her after 13 years of rejection. Maybe separate living spaces is warranted at this point. Thanks again for your reply.

I do not suppose it helps to realize that she is repulsed by touching, not by your touch. She may be the one with PTSD, but you have both been profoundly traumatized by now.

I would think separate living spaces–or two separate and satisfactory sleeping spaces, if nothing else–would have the least impact on your ability to enjoy the affection of your children and be their parent and is warranted. Honestly, I have to think that it would help with the pain you feel at sharing the loneliness of being in bed with someone who will not touch you. There is no question that this is profoundly damaging to you personally. That compounding sense of rejection probably also makes reconciliation less and less of a future likelihood. Sometimes, staying in the same bed and trying the to make the same thing work that has failed over and over does more harm than taking a break from even trying, at least for awhile. There will also be less stress on you immediately, both emotional and financial, if you take steps that are not irreversible before you make the decision about some ultimate decision. (In other words, I’m not saying that there is never a point where “closure” on your efforts won’t be warranted for legitimate reasons. That does happen, and you may realize a short time after you separate informally that the time had already arrived before you separated. I cannot say that.)

The other question I’d ask is if there are ways that your wife can express her affection for you in ways that are not physical. That is a tall order when physical contact is what you are longing for, but it might possibly help you to sense that it is touch and not you that is being rejected.

 

[mnpapist]

EasterJoy,

Thank you for this very thoughtful and thorough response. Some level of separation is definitely worth considering. Some thoughts on your response.

1. I don’t want to think about intimacy as a “marital duty”. I don’t care for the Church calling it a “duty”. I don’t want her to touch me if she doesn’t want to. I want her to desire me. If she doesn’t then I don’t want her to force herself. I’ve given up on trying to get her to be attracted to me. I’m beyond caring about attraction anymore. I don’t even want to touch her because I’m so sick of the rejection.
2. I don’t want divorce or annullment, and I don’t want to start dating other women. I just want to be able to function in life without being reminded of the ****** situation I am in on a daily basis. I don’t see how to achieve that without some degree of separation.
3. Separating will be difficult because of the kids. We have one child that has extreme emotional problems and fights with us 24x7. Leaving any one of us alone with this kid is very difficult.

I am just tired of being stuck in this situation and I am looking for any way out of it. My mental health is definitely suffering and I need some help.

Thanks again.

I’m so sorry, OP. I would not wish what you and your wife are going through on anyone.

Although canon law allows separation of a validly-married couple when the common conjugal life is damaging to either or both of the partners or to any of the children, it does pay to consider that the separation will also have painful consequences. As for divorce, it is morally permissible when it is necessary to gain a just division of assets, but not all couples who have a just cause to separate find that civil divorce is necessary. This is a particular concern for you, since it is not strife and unreliability that are causing your problems, but an unwanted incapacity to fulfill what is a marital duty if the capacity exists. It seems that you believe not that your wife will not and has never intended to fulfil her marital duty. It seems that even you believe that she simply cannot. If that is the true situation, but the roots of her PTSD arose after marriage, that is not grounds for a decree of nullity.

OP, is it possible to simply get a separate apartment or a house with separate bedrooms that you or your wife can use to find somewhere to get some respite? Even happily married people get separate bedrooms for reasons as simple as snoring, insomnia, or odd times of retiring to be or rising. That’s a lot less disruption to your life, your finances, and your children than a divorce.

You ought to consider that your situation may be no more different than if your wife had a physical accident that prevented sexual intimacy. In other words, there is every reason to believe you are validly married and that this is an unfortunate situation where the “worse” part of “better or worse” is a lot worse than anyone ever wants to think about.

What is a good Catholic man to do? Well, he has to leave separation as a last resort, but he does have the right to separate with the bond remaining if he is in serious mental danger if he does not separate. I’d suggest you talk to your pastor about this and stay in contact with him on an ongoing basis. As a good Catholic man, though, you do have to take care of your own health, too. Taking care of your mental health is a duty, not a self-indulgence.

What you should not do is to imagine that you will be free to date other women if you do divorce. Don’t go there unless you have not only gotten reason to believe your marriage is invalid but have also gotten confirmation from a tribunal that it is in fact invalid. Frankly, that is not the way I would bet, knowing only what you have said so far. In spite of the widespread complaints, tribunals do not rubber-stamp requests for decrees of nullity.

 

[mnpapist]

Again I have to say a big Thank You to everyone who replied. I have heard more common sense answers here in 24 hours than I have heard from expensive therapists in the last 13 years! Thank You Catholic Answers forums! Please pray for me and my family.

 

[mnpapist]

Thank you again. your response is right on the money.

Yes God bless her she tries to do things for me like make me breakfast, etc, but unfortunately it just makes me sad for what I’m missing. I am very thankful for her. She is a saint for living with me and the kids. I don’t want to hurt her or make her life more difficult, but I am dying. Having separate bedrooms seems like a reasonable step to take.

Thank YOu!

I do not suppose it helps to realize that she is repulsed by touching, not by your touch. She may be the one with PTSD, but you have both been profoundly traumatized by now.

I would think separate living spaces–or two separate and satisfactory sleeping spaces, if nothing else–would have the least impact on your ability to enjoy the affection of your children and be their parent and is warranted. Honestly, I have to think that it would help with the pain you feel at sharing the loneliness of being in bed with someone who will not touch you. There is no question that this is profoundly damaging to you personally. That compounding sense of rejection probably also makes reconciliation less and less of a future likelihood. Sometimes, staying in the same bed and trying the to make the same thing work that has failed over and over does more harm than taking a break from even trying, at least for awhile. There will also be less stress on you immediately, both emotional and financial, if you take steps that are not irreversible before you make the decision about some ultimate decision. (In other words, I’m not saying that there is never a point where “closure” on your efforts won’t be warranted for legitimate reasons. That does happen, and you may realize a short time after you separate informally that the time had already arrived before you separated. I cannot say that.)

The other question I’d ask is if there are ways that your wife can express her affection for you in ways that are not physical. That is a tall order when physical contact is what you are longing for, but it might possibly help you to sense that it is touch and not you that is being rejected.

 

[pnewton]

Again I have to say a big Thank You to everyone who replied. I have heard more common sense answers here in 24 hours than I have heard from expensive therapists in the last 13 years! Thank You Catholic Answers forums! Please pray for me and my family.

Prayer, and lots of it. Yes, we all know God can work miracles, but prayer also has a way of transforming* us*. If nothing else, we can always spend time with God and seek the peace that this brings us. I like the idea someone said about separate trips, but let me expand that to retreats and pilgrimages. Gain inner peace about the situation and you will teach your children (and hopefully your wife) more about life than all that Man’s wisdom can teach.

 

[Xantippe]

A lot of this rings true and is probably a huge piece of it. She has admitted as much, and I guess I realizing she is not attracted makes me think “forget this” I’m done. If she isn’t attracted to me, what’s the point?
I have no motivation to lift or eat better. I’m 5’8" 180# She has said I am unattractive. I don’t care. I would like to start running a little bit.
I have been trying to do some hobbies that make me happy, but there is little time with 4 kids in the house.
Leaving for any length of time puts a very hard strain on her because one of our kids has emotional issues and fights 24x7. We’re seeking help for that.
The idea of doing something to be more attractive to her just makes me angry. Who can keep up with what someone else’s idea of “attractive” is? That seems like a good way to make myself crazy.
Get a new job? Easier said than done. I have invested years to get where I am and am not in a position to just switch jobs, not to mention the loss of income associated with that.

1. If it’s possible for you to divorce your wife, it’s possible for you to be gone one or two nights a week. (And your wife needs a breather, too.)
2. Do good stuff for you. Exercise is good for you and will make you stronger and happier. Also, it will get you out of the house. It will make you more attractive, but that’s just one of many benefits.

Good luck!

 

[Xantippe]

The other question I’d ask is if there are ways that your wife can express her affection for you in ways that are not physical. That is a tall order when physical contact is what you are longing for, but it might possibly help you to sense that it is touch and not you that is being rejected.

I have an out-of-the-box suggestion for touch that may sound a little weird.

How about having her use some sort of massaging tool? So she wouldn’t be touching you, but just the tool? If you look up “back scratcher” on Amazon, there are a lot of inexpensive options. The Kikkerland scalp massager also has a very enthusiastic following.

The only problem I can see is that it might be too stimulating, but it’s worth a try.

 

[mnpapist]

Neither of us are in a place where we can experiment with this kind of thing right now.

I am just trying to figure out how to live with this problem with the least amount of pain for everyone.

I have an out-of-the-box suggestion for touch that may sound a little weird.

How about having her use some sort of massaging tool? So she wouldn’t be touching you, but just the tool? If you look up “back scratcher” on Amazon, there are a lot of inexpensive options. The Kikkerland scalp massager also has a very enthusiastic following.

The only problem I can see is that it might be too stimulating, but it’s worth a try.

 

[mnpapist]

1. Good point: Anything is better than divorce. Thank you!

1. If it’s possible for you to divorce your wife, it’s possible for you to be gone one or two nights a week. (And your wife needs a breather, too.)
2. Do good stuff for you. Exercise is good for you and will make you stronger and happier. Also, it will get you out of the house. It will make you more attractive, but that’s just one of many benefits.

Good luck!

 

[EasterJoy]

EasterJoy,

Thank you for this very thoughtful and thorough response. Some level of separation is definitely worth considering. Some thoughts on your response.

1. I don’t want to think about intimacy as a “marital duty”. I don’t care for the Church calling it a “duty”. I don’t want her to touch me if she doesn’t want to. I want her to desire me. If she doesn’t then I don’t want her to force herself. I’ve given up on trying to get her to be attracted to me. I’m beyond caring about attraction anymore. I don’t even want to touch her because I’m so sick of the rejection.
2. I don’t want divorce or annullment, and I don’t want to start dating other women. I just want to be able to function in life without being reminded of the ****** situation I am in on a daily basis. I don’t see how to achieve that without some degree of separation.
3. Separating will be difficult because of the kids. We have one child that has extreme emotional problems and fights with us 24x7. Leaving any one of us alone with this kid is very difficult.

I am just tired of being stuck in this situation and I am looking for any way out of it. My mental health is definitely suffering and I need some help.

Thanks again.

It is unfortunate that the idea of a duty has become something equated with an unwanted burden. It is, rather, among all of the good things we might choose to do, something that is also identifiable as a necessary thing for us to do. When our duties are things we do gladly, it does not mean we are less dutiful. It only means that we have found being dutiful an easy thing for us to do.

For instance, if your wife were to be capable of touching you with affection, it would be a necessary thing for her to do. It is something you need from your wife, and from your wife alone, and not just something you might like to have her do. That is what makes it a duty–that is, something that is necessary for us to do when we are capable of doing it. You can probably think of several of your duties that are some of your favorite things to do. If you love to do them, you still get credit for having done your duty.

I totally believe your assessment that sleeping in the same bed is a constant reminder of both your need and her inability to meet your need. That has to be very difficult for both of you. You children have to be aware that their mother only touches other people with great difficulty. I don’t think there is any reason to try to sleep in the same bedroom for their sakes. If you have to get them into bunk beds in order to free up the space for you or your wife to have a private retreat, by all means do it. You might even make the space part bedroom and part quiet study space, a retreat that the whole family uses. At any rate, a place for you to sleep that has been pointedly outfitted to be comfortable and not “space on the couch” is quite warranted. You could be pretty lavish with it and still not spend a fraction of it would cost to keep two residences. If your wife finds you the only one who is difficult to touch because she associates you with sex and sex is a traumatic thing for her, living in a way that is more brother-and-sister could also lower the difficulty she feels in touching you at all.

I have an out-of-the-box suggestion for touch that may sound a little weird.

How about having her use some sort of massaging tool? So she wouldn’t be touching you, but just the tool? If you look up “back scratcher” on Amazon, there are a lot of inexpensive options. The Kikkerland scalp massager also has a very enthusiastic following.

The only problem I can see is that it might be too stimulating, but it’s worth a try.

If he would find it relaxing, I wouldn’t think that a regular professional massage would be an extravagance at all. He could get a puppy to sleep on his bed at night, if he wanted to. I would suggest he consider any of the things that a widower might find gives consolation for the loss of his wife’s touch or her presence–vacations with his children, a pet, membership in some hobby club–whatever might help. Nothing can replace that loss, but many number of things might comfort a person suffering from that loss. He is under a lot of stress, and it is not at all self-indulgent to try to find something to help alleviate it.

 

[808Catholic]

Thanks for the suggestion, but we are way beyond trying this. We have tried Retrouvaille, Marriage Encounter, and a dozen therapists who don’t know anything. We saw the movie, but I’m not even interested in becoming closer anymore. I feel it’s a lost cause.

We don’t walk in your shoes or in your wife’s shoes so we cannot truly understand the emotions that are driving this situation. When I am in that situation, one thought keeps me going: “Is this what Christ might have thought/felt while on the cross?” Did Jesus look down upon us at the foot of His cross and thought “they’re a lost cause”? Did/Does He give up on us? We are called to be like Christ; it’s never easy but that’s the road we all must travel. Go with God and may He grant you peace.