Can emotional pain justify divorce?

[Graceful_Lamb]

I really like EasterJoy’s idea of a pet.

Mnpapist, if you are a dog person, Cocker Spaniels are excellent companions. My husband and I have a Cocker Spaniel and he is the best dog I have ever had. Follows me around the house always. They make great family pets.

You could also make your bedroom into a “man cave.” With your own bedding, pictures, paint, curtains (or not), music, etc. You could even have a prayer corner, too.

 

[mnpapist]

Thanks I already have a great dog which has given everyone in the family ( including me) a lot of comfort and joy. Thanks for the suggestion.

I really like EasterJoy’s idea of a pet.

Mnpapist, if you are a dog person, Cocker Spaniels are excellent companions. My husband and I have a Cocker Spaniel and he is the best dog I have ever had. Follows me around the house always. They make great family pets.

You could also make your bedroom into a “man cave.” With your own bedding, pictures, paint, curtains (or not), music, etc. You could even have a prayer corner, too.

 

[whm]

Don’t move out of your bedroom. That would serve to emasculate you further. If she wants to sleep alone, she can move to a different bedroom.

 

[jmjZelie]

I am confused. Could you clarify something, please? When did your wife begin to hate physical contact? After your first child was born? Were your subsequent children conceived in the natural way? Did she breastfeed the babies?

I have been thinking a lot about your question, and I have some thoughts but needed some clarification first. I am sorry for your pain, and your wife’s pain.

 

[1990Domer]

A lot of this rings true and is probably a huge piece of it. She has admitted as much, and I guess I realizing she is not attracted makes me think “forget this” I’m done. If she isn’t attracted to me, what’s the point?
I have no motivation to lift or eat better. I’m 5’8" 180# She has said I am unattractive. I don’t care. I would like to start running a little bit.
I have been trying to do some hobbies that make me happy, but there is little time with 4 kids in the house.
Leaving for any length of time puts a very hard strain on her because one of our kids has emotional issues and fights 24x7. We’re seeking help for that.
The idea of doing something to be more attractive to her just makes me angry. Who can keep up with what someone else’s idea of “attractive” is? That seems like a good way to make myself crazy.
Get a new job? Easier said than done. I have invested years to get where I am and am not in a position to just switch jobs, not to mention the loss of income associated with that.

Mnpapist, with all Christian charity, I think divorce would be a terrible consequence, especially if you have a child with a possible disability. But, the most important thing I wanted to say was…at times in my marriage…I was your wife. Actually, I am her right now. I feel horrible because of menopause and dealing with emotional issues surrounding my son, who is on the autism spectrum. Physically, menopause has made relations with my DH very painful. I thought I had a bladder infection. A wonderful PCP informed me that I needed another trip to the GYN. On top of that, horrible headaches, low energy (low iron), anxiety, you get the point.

My DH of 21 years has walked by me and been the model of St. Joseph throughout our marriage. I grew up in an emotionally abusive household, so my husband was very patient when I needed to work on issues of my own. People who remember me as 90Domer (had to set-up a new acct–lost my password and switched associated e-mails) remember these tough times.

I assure you, you do receive grace, as God knows you are hurting. Please, if you can, offer that suffering up for your family or perhaps the unborn or the souls in Purgatory. Feel free to PM me is possible. God bless.

P.S. I wanted to let you know something that always resonated with us. A priest gave a sermon on the feast of the Holy Family. He said that being a holy family is not the same as a perfect family. I hope this post helped a little.

 

[EasterJoy]

Don’t move out of your bedroom. That would serve to emasculate you further. If she wants to sleep alone, she can move to a different bedroom.

That is for him and his wife to work out. He may find that even being in their master bedroom is stressful.

 

[Xantippe]

That is for him and his wife to work out. He may find that even being in their master bedroom is stressful.

Right.

A change of scene might be very helpful. Also, the MBR is not necessarily the darkest or the quietest bedroom in the house. And, if the OP is starting to have knee trouble (which is only a matter of time), a downstairs bedroom might be much comfier. Or, one bedroom might have a newer mattress.

It would be weird to choose a bedroom based on “winning” some sort of imaginary contest, when there are lots of more sensible reasons to prefer one bedroom over another.

 

[wild_thing]

Mnpapist, I’m doing a novena for marriage and family and I’ll include you and your wife in my intentions. I cannot discern anything at the moment from your posts, but if I gain any insight from prayer I’ll be sure to pass it along to you.

I’m assuming you have already tried praying to St. Rita for this situation?

 

[whm]

That is for him and his wife to work out. He may find that even being in their master bedroom is stressful.

It does depend on the specifics, however he should not surrender the bedroom because she unilaterally refuses intimacy, especially when he is feeling emasculated by the whole issue.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

It does depend on the specifics, however he should not surrender the bedroom because she unilaterally refuses intimacy, especially when he is feeling emasculated by the whole issue.

OP is not happy with the way things are. I don’t think he should stay in the MBR because she refuses intimacy, so it should be up to her to move out. The OP states that he is upset and angry when he gets in and out of bed with his wife. We are talking about their marriage and the mental health of both of them, not a game.

I think if him moving out of the MBR (if that is what he decides to do) makes things even a little better for them, then in my opinion, it is worth it. The OP
has tried lots of avenues already (counseling, etc.) and nothing has worked so far.

 

[whm]

OP is not happy with the way things are. I don’t think he should stay in the MBR because she refuses intimacy, so it should be up to her to move out. The OP states that he is upset and angry when he gets in and out of bed with his wife. We are talking about their marriage and the mental health of both of them, not a game…

That is what I said, it should be up to her to move out?

I think if him moving out of the MBR (if that is what he decides to do) makes things even a little better for them, then in my opinion, it is worth it. The OP has tried lots of avenues already (counseling, etc.) and nothing has worked so far.

He has tried lots of things and she has not responded. In my opinion, having lived through a similar situation, moving out of the bedroom is going to make him feel even lower and less of a man. It is going to give her even more power over him and increase his frustration.

 

[LongingSoul]

Don’t move out of your bedroom. That would serve to emasculate you further. If she wants to sleep alone, she can move to a different bedroom.

It’s not the situation to be acting some on right or principle here. He is not trying to punish his wife. He is trying to make the best situation for them to both feel comfortable in their present situation.

Talking with honesty to each other without taking offense or being angry is a really important thing. There’s a recent book written by Fr. Morrow, a Catholic Priest about the effect of anger on what are essentially strong Catholic marriages. Here’s a link.

catholicnewsagency.com/news/whats-destroying-some-catholic-marriages-the-answer-may-surprise-you-36178/

The thing about her not finding you attractive… sometimes its hard to properly define what a woman is reacting to in that way even for us women, but its never usually physical appearance as the primary thing. Wives can feel that way about objectively really physically attractive husbands also. It’s to do with something on a more archetypical level. What does it mean to be a man in a fundamental way? That’s what can be really hard to put your finger on but often it is only superficially manifesting as physical revulsion. A lot of modern marriages think that equality means giving and receiving in equal measure at all times but experience (of very long term marriages) shows that love, trust and appreciation take root in times where one is giving everything and the other nothing. It’s a demonstration of an heroic generosity that doesn’t get a chance come out in relationships that are overly obsessed with continual reciprocation in a competitive sort of way.

This thread by the way, is one of the best I’ve seen regarding the sad topic of marriage distress.

 

[Xantippe]

It does depend on the specifics, however he should not surrender the bedroom because she unilaterally refuses intimacy, especially when he is feeling emasculated by the whole issue.

They’ve had an awful lot of kids and done an awful lot of therapy for you to be putting this all on her.

If physical intimacy (even hand-holding) freaks her out, it freaks her out. She’s not doing that on purpose. Wouldn’t it feel very rape-y to be having intercourse with a person that obviously desperately doesn’t want to have intercourse? Think about it.

 

[whm]

It’s not the situation to be acting some on right or principle here. He is not trying to punish his wife. He is trying to make the best situation for them to both feel comfortable in their present situation.

Her not telling him that he is unattractive would probably make him more comfortable. You do have to take a stand sometimes. You can’t allow yourself to be abused. You don’t stay out of anger or spite or to win a contest of wills. You stay to maintain your dignity. You stay to show that you will not be walked all over. You are firm so your wife gets the help she needs. You don’t enable her. Maybe she needs him to be strong and firm for her to get better?

 

[Xantippe]

He has tried lots of things and she has not responded. In my opinion, having lived through a similar situation, moving out of the bedroom is going to make him feel even lower and less of a man. It is going to give her even more power over him and increase his frustration.

They’ve both done a lot of stuff and she’s obviously made some sort of major effort, or they wouldn’t have had three subsequent children.

 

[whm]

They’ve had an awful lot of kids and done an awful lot of therapy for you to be putting this all on her.

If physical intimacy (even hand-holding) freaks her out, it freaks her out. She’s not doing that on purpose. Wouldn’t it feel very rape-y to be having intercourse with a person that obviously desperately doesn’t want to have intercourse? Think about it.

I didn’t say they should have intercourse. I said he should not move out of the bedroom. He shouldn’t even think of requesting sex until her issues have been resolved, which may not happen.

 

[Xantippe]

Her not telling him that he is unattractive would probably make him more comfortable. You do have to take a stand sometimes. You can’t allow yourself to be abused. You don’t stay out of anger or spite or to win a contest of wills. You stay to maintain your dignity. You stay to show that you will not be walked all over. You are firm so your wife gets the help she needs. You don’t enable her. Maybe she needs him to be strong and firm for her to get better?

He says that they’ve exhausted the medical and therapeutic avenues.

I actually have a bit more hope on that front (some doctors and therapists are way better than others, and sometimes it’s a question of figuring out the right subspecialty to talk to), but I don’t think anybody can reasonably say that there hasn’t been substantial effort.

I don’t know how being “strong and firm” with somebody that can’t stand being touched and has some form of PTSD would work.

Would it be something like Patton slapping shell-shocked soldiers?

youtube.com/watch?v=YrtS2_TfbeY

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton_slapping_incidents

 

[whm]

I don’t know how being “strong and firm” with somebody that can’t stand being touched and has some form of PTSD would work.

She need to feel safe with him. She also needs to seek help. I didn’t suggest that he touch her. I said don’t run out of the bedroom and reinforce her feeling that men are bad and he is the problem. How is that going to result in her seeking help? Strong also means not whining or asking for things that she is not emotionally capable of handling right now.

As far as I know she isn’t even asking him to leave.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

That is what I said, it should be up to her to move out?

He has tried lots of things and she has not responded. In my opinion, having lived through a similar situation, moving out of the bedroom is going to make him feel even lower and less of a man. It is going to give her even more power over him and increase his frustration.

Whoopsie. I meant to say that it doesn’t have to be up to her to move out. Fingers moving faster than the brain.

Moving out of the bedroom may have consequences, too. I agree, but things aren’t working this way either.

I haven’t been in the situation, but it has to be frustrating (among other things) to sleep in the same bed as your spouse, who isn’t attracted to you (general you) and doesn’t want to touch you (general you).

 

[1990Domer]

They’ve had an awful lot of kids and done an awful lot of therapy for you to be putting this all on her.

If physical intimacy (even hand-holding) freaks her out, it freaks her out. She’s not doing that on purpose. Wouldn’t it feel very rape-y to be having intercourse with a person that obviously desperately doesn’t want to have intercourse? Think about it.

I really need to agree with Xantippe here that appearance may not be reality. I remember about 2-3 years ago there was a man in a troubled marriage. Nearly all the blame was put on the wife. However, we do not know HER side of the story. Also, we are filling in gaps with what may be our reality and not the true reality.

I mean no harm or disrespect to the OP. I just know when I posted when I was angry with my husband, all sorts of conclusions were drawn and I would vow never to do that again.

Let’s be compassionate to both parties please.