Can ex-Catholics be saved - a detailed look at the situation?

  • Thread starter Thread starter zeland
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I used to be curious about that but after reading CCC and having my questions answered, im good. Still curious about Rosebud but im sure there is an explanation.

Peace!!!
I have no idea about Rosebud but then I am not curious at all. Rosebud’s journey is between her and God. As I’m good with whatever anyone calls themselves. If a Catholic has found their spiritual home elsewhere and no longer ID’s as a Catholic, that’s fine with me. But likewise if a baptized/confirmed Catholic never sets foot inside a Catholic church but identifies as a Catholic, that’s fine with me too. Catholics can’t object to someone calling themselves a Catholic since their church calls them Catholic. Unless the ones objecting disagree with a teaching too. In which case there may be even more in the “cafeteria line” than some think. I think I’ve made my point. Catholics on this forum cause confusion as well about whom their church considers to be Catholic. Peace to you as well.
 
I have no idea about Rosebud but then I am not curious at all. Rosebud’s journey is between her and God. As I’m good with whatever anyone calls themselves. If a Catholic has found their spiritual home elsewhere and no longer ID’s as a Catholic, that’s fine with me. But likewise if a baptized/confirmed Catholic never sets foot inside a Catholic church but identifies as a Catholic, that’s fine with me too. Catholics can’t object to someone calling themselves a Catholic since their church calls them Catholic. Unless the ones objecting disagree with a teaching too. In which case there may be even more in the “cafeteria line” than some think. I think I’ve made my point. Catholics on this forum cause confusion as well about whom their church considers to be Catholic. Peace to you as well.
👍
 
I have no idea about Rosebud but then I am not curious at all. Rosebud’s journey is between her and God. As I’m good with whatever anyone calls themselves. If a Catholic has found their spiritual home elsewhere and no longer ID’s as a Catholic, that’s fine with me. But likewise if a baptized/confirmed Catholic never sets foot inside a Catholic church but identifies as a Catholic, that’s fine with me too. Catholics can’t object to someone calling themselves a Catholic since their church calls them Catholic. Unless the ones objecting disagree with a teaching too. In which case there may be even more in the “cafeteria line” than some think. I think I’ve made my point. Catholics on this forum cause confusion as well about whom their church considers to be Catholic. Peace to you as well.
Im sorry if you found objection in my post. I sure didn’t intend any. I just find it misleading while there are many more ex-Catholics here calling themslves something else with no objections and certainly not misleading. Maybe my problem is with them. 😉 and now im wondering if you or Rosebud find it misleading or wrong if other ex-Catholics identify as something other than Catholic. 🤷

Peace!!!
 
Im sorry if you found objection in my post. I sure didn’t intend any. I just find it misleading while there are many more ex-Catholics here calling themslves something else with no objections and certainly not misleading.** Maybe my problem is with them. 😉 and now im wondering if you or Rosebud find it misleading or wrong if other ex-Catholics identify as something other than Catholic. 🤷**

Peace!!!
Going cross eyed trying to understand that!

And in reality, all of this is between us and God. It really is, All in my life has been carefully and lovingly discussed with some expert and compassionate direction and I am totally at peace in these declinng years. Prayer is full and rich and life is so valued in Jesus.Has taken nearly 80 years for me to get here.

Your “problem” is with you my friend, not with any of us. Someone I once knew used to refer to "cookie cutter " Christians. ie they think everyone should be a carbon copy of everyone else. Our Father is a loving Father who knows each of his little ones through and through.
Just resting in Him. Loving and working at what I can. Praying for all. Resting in the beauty He has created around us.

So be at peace please.OK? OK!
 
Im sorry if you found objection in my post. I sure didn’t intend any. I just find it misleading while there are many more ex-Catholics here calling themslves something else with no objections and certainly not misleading. Maybe my problem is with them. 😉 and now im wondering if you or Rosebud find it misleading or wrong if other ex-Catholics identify as something other than Catholic. 🤷

Peace!!!
Oh I’m no longer offended by this forum. I know the actual Catholic Church’s answer as to whom she considers to be Catholic. As such when it comes to Catholic teaching you already know you lost me at the point of your words, “ex-Catholics”.

But anyway, those Catholics according to your church’s teaching who call themselves something else might well know the Catholic Church still considers them to be Catholic even if they have found God outside of the Catholic Church. But because they have found their spiritual home elsewhere, they choose to ID as such. And that is where their conscience and heart is so I have no problem with that. I’ll explain why nearer the end. If I were to ever join another faith community, I too might well ID as such even though I know the Catholic Church would still consider me a Catholic. The only reason I use an adjective at this time is because of all the fuss and uproar that is made here about who can ID as just Catholic. As I’ve even been told on this forum I can not ID as Catholic despite that in itself being against Catholic Church teaching. But I’m certain in your reading of CCC that you are well aware that your church “knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion.” (CCC 838) And I’m sure as you have read further to 839, you learned that even non Christians are considered people of God in various ways. And here’s the sentence you have been waiting for…, I would actually hold the professed Catholic faithful on a so-called Catholic answers forum to a higher degree in not causing confusion. In this case, whom it is your church considers to be Catholic. I’m not going to continue going back and forth with you on this however. So indeed peace to you and to all whom walk along our faith journeys. God bless you in yours.
 
Going cross eyed trying to understand that!

And in reality, all of this is between us and God. It really is, All in my life has been carefully and lovingly discussed with some expert and compassionate direction and I am totally at peace in these declinng years. Prayer is full and rich and life is so valued in Jesus.Has taken nearly 80 years for me to get here.

Your “problem” is with you my friend, not with any of us. Someone I once knew used to refer to "cookie cutter " Christians. ie they think everyone should be a carbon copy of everyone else. Our Father is a loving Father who knows each of his little ones through and through.
Just resting in Him. Loving and working at what I can. Praying for all. Resting in the beauty He has created around us.

So be at peace please.OK? OK!
Amen, Rosebud. The reality is indeed that all of this is between us and God. God surely knows our hearts and our minds and what makes us tick and makes us who we are, along each step of our lifelong journeys. May God continue to enrich you in so many ways as the little of your story that I’ve picked up on, it sure does appear that you do much for Jesus in doing for the least of his brothers and sisters. I try to do what I can but sometimes I know I fall short. God have mercy! Honestly your devotion and work on Christ’s behalf puts me to shame. God bless you and continued peace!
 
I do keep these people in my prayers as well as praying I wont give in to temptation to leave the Catholic Church for what seems like an easier life, at least from my limited perspective on life.

I do think its very different when a person ditches the Catholic Church will a good appreciation of the Eucharist and someone who only has a very superficial Catholic faith and genuinely cant link going to mass with being close to Christ and is genuinely seeking that closeness. There must have been loads of people in the past who went to mass just because all their family and friends did and it was just the path of least resistance, are these people any better than those who gave up mass?
What your sharing is very true, however GOD still Offers then many graces that they would otherwise not be offered.

I’m happy to hear that your committed to staying in Christ One TRUE faith and Church:thumbsup:

Life isn’t easy because God NEVER intended it to be. To actually follow Christ is to expect suffering. Amen!

God Bless you,
Patrick
 
No I did not follow your “advice” or “answer your questions”
who are you to ask these things of a stranger on the internet?

. I have excellent spiritual guidance, and medical advice on all of this. Folk who know me intimately and have done to for years,

I dio not go to mass; as I have said here before I have no working immune system and have to avoid enclosed places especially in this new place.

Events here, which involved folk I am close to, drove me almost to breaking point… My ways of God are wide and free and of Him and i know His love and His peace. .

He will heal and guide me in His ways… He is my life.

And i have the help I need thank you !

Your guilt - ing militant ways are alien to me. Threats? Bordering on intimidation in places
and so judgemental and they turn me further and further away . I “could” quote chapter and verse on that but I will not abuse the Bible like that.
.
1st I’ll pray for you

2nd I know WELL God did not appoint be either Judge or Jury

3 td My concern is for your spiritual well being

God Bless you!

Patrick
 
We are to apply the requirements for salvation to our OWN souls – not to try and speculate on the salvation or damnation of everyone else’s soul.

If we are in a position to create opportunities for catechesis for fellow Catholics - we should do that.

If we are in a position to lovingly encourage a friend or family member to return to the Church, we should do that.

And we should all pray for ALL souls, that God’s heart would not suffer the rejection of his children.

But if we think we’re going to turn hearts and win souls for God by sharing lengthy apologetic arguments about how others are going to hell if they don’t get their act together… boy, would we ever be off the mark!

I have never yet met someone who left the Church who would have welcomed my telling them how my Church condemns them to hell for their choices. :eek: :tsktsk:

Within the context of a loving relationship – one that has proven itself through word and action and time – invite, encourage, and share when and how it is appropriate. And be sure to be Christ to all, salt and light for the earth.
Dear Gertaballa,

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, your first sentence – “We are to apply the requirements for salvation to our OWN souls – not to try and speculate on the salvation or damnation of everyone else’s soul” – is somewhat in error.

In today’s world (and Church) we tend to carry this love and compassion thing a bit too far. Yes, we don’t want to be rude or disrespectful, but enough of this political correctness nonsense that has infected our society and church where we don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings.

If someone is on the road to hell, it is the Church’s job to tell them so. The problem is that today we have to many weak Shepard’s who are afraid of speaking out and standing up for the truth – that is not the popular thing to do you know – baloney! St. Paul said that true love is telling the truth, and we are obligated to do the same. Our lord doesn’t mince words, and neither should we.

Listen to the kind and loving message the Lord sends us in Ezekiel 3:16-19.:bible1::

*16 “And at the end of seven days the word of the Lord came to me, saying:

17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman to the house of Israel: and thou shalt hear the word out of my mouth, and shalt tell it them from me.

18 If, when I say to the wicked, Thou shalt surely die: and thou declare it not to him, nor speak to him, that he may be converted from his wicked way, and live: the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require thy hand.

19 But if thou give warning to the wicked, and he be not converted from his wickedness, and from his evil way: he indeed shall die in his iniquity, but thou hast delivered thy soul”.👍
*
I do not want the blood of anyone’s damnation on my hands!

zeland
 
Dear Gertaballa,

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, your first sentence – “We are to apply the requirements for salvation to our OWN souls – not to try and speculate on the salvation or damnation of everyone else’s soul” – is somewhat in error.

In today’s world (and Church) we tend to carry this love and compassion thing a bit too far. Yes, we don’t want to be rude or disrespectful, but enough of this political correctness nonsense that has infected our society and church where we don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings.

If someone is on the road to hell, it is the Church’s job to tell them so. The problem is that today we have to many weak Shepard’s who are afraid of speaking out and standing up for the truth – that is not the popular thing to do you know – baloney! St. Paul said that true love is telling the truth, and we are obligated to do the same. Our lord doesn’t mince words, and neither should we.

Listen to the kind and loving message the Lord sends us in Ezekiel 3:16-19.::bible1:

16 “And at the end of seven days the word of the Lord came to me, saying:

17 *Son of man, I have made thee a watchman to the house of Israel: and thou shalt hear the word out of my mouth, and shalt tell it them from me.

18 If, when I say to the wicked, Thou shalt surely die: and thou declare it not to him, nor speak to him, that he may be converted from his wicked way, and live: the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require thy hand.

19 But if thou give warning to the wicked, and he be not converted from his wickedness, and from his evil way: he indeed shall die in his iniquity, but thou hast delivered thy soul*”.👍

I do not want the blood of anyone’s damnation on my hands!

zeland
 
Dear Gertaballa,

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, your first sentence – “We are to apply the requirements for salvation to our OWN souls – not to try and speculate on the salvation or damnation of everyone else’s soul” – is somewhat in error.

In today’s world (and Church) we tend to carry this love and compassion thing a bit too far. Yes, we don’t want to be rude or disrespectful, but enough of this political correctness nonsense that has infected our society and church where we don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings.

**If someone is on the road to hell, it is the Church’s job to tell them so. **The problem is that today we have to many weak Shepard’s who are afraid of speaking out and standing up for the truth – that is not the popular thing to do you know – baloney! St. Paul said that true love is telling the truth, and we are obligated to do the same. Our lord doesn’t mince words, and neither should we.

Listen to the kind and loving message the Lord sends us in Ezekiel 3:16-19.:bible1::

*16 “And at the end of seven days the word of the Lord came to me, saying:

17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman to the house of Israel: and thou shalt hear the word out of my mouth, and shalt tell it them from me.

18 If, when I say to the wicked, Thou shalt surely die: and thou declare it not to him, nor speak to him, that he may be converted from his wicked way, and live: the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require thy hand.

19 But if thou give warning to the wicked, and he be not converted from his wickedness, and from his evil way: he indeed shall die in his iniquity, but thou hast delivered thy soul”.👍
*
I do not want the blood of anyone’s damnation on my hands!

zeland
Indeed. It is the Church’s job – Bishops, Cardinals – not yours.

I’ll pray for you, Zeland, but I will absolutely not agree with you on your interpretation of scripture.

If I were to tell my friend (the art teacher at my school) that she is going to hell because she left the Church 30+ years ago, there is no way that would win her over to Christ! :eek: It would end our friendship and give me no chance to show her what a life in Christ looks like – the joy of celibate chastity, the grace of God in action, the peace that comes from allowing the love of God to be my all, God’s love and support for her and her family (through my meager actions) day in and day out, and everything that God is giving us in this life and the next!

You sound like you don’t actually give a rat’s rear end for the salvation of others. Sounds like you’re only concerned for your own soul.

It is not your job to go around judging and condemning other people’s souls. This is not about political correctness. You see people’s actions and determine their condemnation.

God sees the heart – the longing, the fears, the confusion, the pains – something you and I are not qualified to do.

Listen to the kind and loving words of Our Lord in Luke 18:10-14:

*“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.

The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’

“But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’

“I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”*

May God bless you!
 
Gertabelle and Sly Noe

a rats rear! Will remember that
And still the dark hints in the other posts. really appalling.

WHY?

A year or so ago, these posts would have driven me away from the forum …they irrit and no more now.

I am called to solitude and apartness. This has been formally and fully recognised by some high names in the church here.

So I fly free in many ways, but yes, always there for sheer love of Jesus for His people. And the ones He leads me to… When I am going out, as I drive, my prayer is. “Lord Jesus, help me to be as Thee to all I meet today.”

A smile, a kind word… like the group of Canadians I “happened” to meet at a tiny country church…

Maybe we should read Paul about different parts of the same Body ? for that is what this is. Simply that.

Rather then the kind of OT verses that the JWs love to throw at US? Which shocks me here frankly.

Gertabelle ;deeply moved by what you write. THANK YOU. And yes you are right.

OK: off to see if the sun is still shining and to take my knitting out, Not yarn but baby food…

Peace brethren…peace please. And no sting in the tail on these posts as there still is in some.
 
Dear Rats, Gertabella, or whoever wrote this comment. I couldn’t tell.

In regards to your statements -

Indeed. It is the Church’s job – Bishops, Cardinals – not yours. “You sound like you don’t actually give a rat’s rear end for the salvation of others. Sounds like you’re only concerned for your own soul. It is not your job to go around judging and condemning other people’s souls. This is not about political correctness. You see people’s actions and determine their condemnation”

First of all, I forgive you for putting words in my mouth (for all the inaccurate statements about my post, and my intentions)

“Indeed. It is the Church’s job – Bishops, Cardinals” – TRUE. - “**not yours” **FALSE.
Yes it is our job to tell the sinner he is wrong, especially when the Sheppard’s are not doing their job.

“You sound like you don’t actually give a rat’s rear end for the salvation of others.
If this were true, I wouldn’t be on this forum writing letters like the one we are discussing.

“I**t is not your job to go around judging and condemning other people’s souls” **Taken alone, by itself, this is a true statement. Only God can judge what is in a person’s heart, as you correctly pointed out. However you have applied this statement incorrectly. We are to make an objective judgment of a person’s misdeeds – We are to judge his external actions, NOT his internal motives. I am condemning no one. I am merely point out the consequences of their actions. Much of our society does not make, or understand the distinction between judging a person’s external actions, and judging their internal motives. Likewise they do not understand the difference between admonishing (judging external actions) and judging their interior motives. Also see Matthew 18:15-17

15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector”.

So yes we are to correct a person when they are doing something wrong. Do you remember the first three spiritual works of mercy - Counsel the doubtful - instruct the ignorant - admonish the sinner? Perhaps a brief review of your basic catechism would be in order?

These three spiritual works of mercy are the main intent of my original post, and I am not judging, I am admonishing. My post was to explain the scriptural mechanics of Cardinal Arinze’s statement.

Below is some resource material you may find helpful. It gives a good example of the incorrect use of the term “Judging”.

thedivinemercy.org/library/article.php?NID=3482

Admonishing the Sinner.

"This work of mercy — “tough love,” you could call it — is one of the hardest to practice in the western world today. Why? Because we live in the “I’m-OK-you’re-OK” culture. As such, I have my own personal set of values, and you have your own personal set of values, and we are each free to practice those values to our heart’s content just as long as we do not do grievous bodily harm to others in the process (although that limitation is waived when the “others” in question are unborn children, the chronically ill, and elderly).

If you really want to be unpopular — indeed, if you really want to risk getting a punch in the nose — try admonishing someone today for, say, swearing in public or wearing provocative clothing or talking loudly in church. Try objecting to the widespread availability of pornography, or try engaging in non-violent protests outside an abortion clinic, or try explaining to a gay friend that his or her lifestyle is unnatural and that he or she will never find true fulfillment, peace, or healing but through Jesus Christ.

Nine times out of 10, the end result of these attempts to “admonish sinners,” no matter how gently and compassionately they are performed, is that one is branded an intolerant bigot. After all, what could be a worse, what could be a more politically incorrect attitude in an I’m-OK-you’re-OK culture than to tell others, "You’re not OK: you’re harming yourself and others, at least spiritually and psychologically, if not also physically and sociologically?

The problem is that we live in a society dominated by people who have not made any real psychological or moral progress since they reached adolescence. Thus, they stumble through life with an adolescent understanding of love. To be “loved,” to them, means to be affirmed in everything they want to do that does not cause anyone else (except unborn children, the chronically ill, and elderly) grievous bodily harm. Imagine telling someone like that, “Hey, I think you are doing something wrong; I think what you are doing can lead to your spiritual self-destruction and, perhaps, to the spiritual destruction of others, too.” They’ll likely complain that you are practicing intolerance and bigotry. Yet, it is to spiritually adolescent people like this — to a whole society dominated by such people — that we are called to “speak the truth in love,” as St. Paul put it (see Eph 4:15), with both courage and compassion".

zeland
 
What if a person genuinely thought they could do a better job serving God outside of the Catholic church?
Dear Lucy,

Christ said “He who does the will of the Father will be saved”. The person’s thought is wrong.
Is he doing God’s will, or his own? Consider one problem: How can his sins be forgiven outside the Church. For example, the mortal sin of missing Mass on Sunday. In the end, only God can judge, but being outside the Church is a pretty questionable way of trying to get to heaven’. The last thing we want to do is leave this life singing “I Did It My Way”

zeland
 
Zeland, unfortunately, you stopped quoting the article you linked at a critical point, so for everyone’s benefit:

“It is certainly not easy to do. It takes the virtue of prudence as well: finding just the right moment and just the right words, and saying them in a way that clearly affirms the human dignity of the person you are admonishing, even as they challenge him or her to fulfill his or her highest potential.”

The key here is that admonishment, when and if necessary, is a personalized conversation that involves great prudence. Otherwise, you likely stand the chance to do more harm than good. You’re post is the equivalent of standing on the street corner yelling fire and brimstone to passers-by. Does that seem like a prudential course of action to you?

At least one person, Rosebud77, has told you that such posts nearly drove her from this site. It has clearly agitated others without providing true pastoral guidance. I would argue it is not a prudential course of action.
 
Zeland, unfortunately, you stopped quoting the article you linked at a critical point, so for everyone’s benefit:

“It is certainly not easy to do. It takes the virtue of prudence as well: finding just the right moment and just the right words, and saying them in a way that clearly affirms the human dignity of the person you are admonishing, even as they challenge him or her to fulfill his or her highest potential.”

The key here is that admonishment, when and if necessary, is a personalized conversation that involves great prudence. Otherwise, you likely stand the chance to do more harm than good. **You’re post is the equivalent of standing on the street corner yelling fire and brimstone to passers-by. Does that seem like a prudential course of action to you?

**At least one person, Rosebud77, has told you that such posts nearly drove her from this site. It has clearly agitated others without providing true pastoral guidance. I would argue it is not a prudential course of action.
Thank you. Maybe folk forget that this is an internet forum, and we have really no idea who we are talking to or what state they are really in.

Way back and I cannot remember if I was even on the forum or just reading , there was a discussion re missing mass. This is something I have had problems with due to poor health and now other factors

And with a lot of help, I have won through to peace about this.

One poster opined that you attend mass even if you are in a wheelchair and wearing an oxygen mask… exit Rosebud pursued by poster!

It totally repelled and appalled me. Put so much guilt on me.

WHY ? is this some power thing? Or insecurity?

There are so many ways to love and serve the Lord Jesus. Just so many .

I do not mind your way; please reciprocate. No condemnation. No accusation.
 
Dear Lucy,

Christ said “He who does the will of the Father will be saved”. The person’s thought is wrong.
Is he doing God’s will, or his own? Consider one problem: How can his sins be forgiven outside the Church. For example, the mortal sin of missing Mass on Sunday. In the end, only God can judge, but being outside the Church is a pretty questionable way of trying to get to heaven’. The last thing we want to do is leave this life singing “I Did It My Way”

zeland
“Only God can judge BUT…” BUT? So you are wiser and more powerful than God?

Also I never think in terms of “trying to get to heaven”. You cannot earn that! That is in the Hands of God as is my trust and my life.

Can you help someone with threats? Jesus does not.

Are you saying that the will of God concerns being a Catholic? Or obeying Jesus in His Two great commandments?

Yes only God can judge. Not thee not I And is that not wonderful? That we do nto have to rely on our flawed minds?
 
Zeland, unfortunately, you stopped quoting the article you linked at a critical point, so for everyone’s benefit:

“It is certainly not easy to do. It takes the virtue of prudence as well: finding just the right moment and just the right words, and saying them in a way that clearly affirms the human dignity of the person you are admonishing, even as they challenge him or her to fulfill his or her highest potential.”

The key here is that admonishment, when and if necessary, is a personalized conversation that involves great prudence. Otherwise, you likely stand the chance to do more harm than good. You’re post is the equivalent of standing on the street corner yelling fire and brimstone to passers-by. Does that seem like a prudential course of action to you?

At least one person, Rosebud77, has told you that such posts nearly drove her from this site. It has clearly agitated others without providing true pastoral guidance. I would argue it is not a prudential course of action.
Dear bjames,

I did not stop quoting the article. The post exceeded the 6000 character limit. That is why I put in the link. You say “The key here is that admonishment, when and if necessary, is a personalized conversation that involves great prudence.” This is true, and If you think I am saying anything different, you are misreading the article. I am only listing the “what should be done”, I am not stating the “How it should be done”.

As for Rosebud77’s comment, many people have indicated great approval of the article. One person said it was the finest post they have seen on this forum. The basic fact still remains. People do go to hell, and if we know someone who is on that path, we are obligated to do something to try persuade them from that path. (Ezekiel 3: 16-19). How you do that is up to you. My post was mainly intended to be use as a tool, to help people explain why Cardinal Arinze’s statement is correct.

zeland

PS, A suggestion for you and Rosebud77 - Read the book “The Four Last Things - Death, Judgement, Heaven, Hell”, (Tan Publishers) by Fr. Martin Von Cochem O.S.F
amazon.com/Four-Last-Things-Judgment-Heaven/dp/1494364417

And remember: Judgement Day will not be a picnic in the park.
 
Dear bjames,

I did not stop quoting the article. The post exceeded the 6000 character limit. That is why I put in the link. You say “The key here is that admonishment, when and if necessary, is a personalized conversation that involves great prudence.” This is true, and If you think I am saying anything different, you are misreading the article. I am only listing the “what should be done”, I am not stating the “How it should be done”.

As for Rosebud77’s comment, many people have indicated great approval of the article. One person said it was the finest post they have seen on this forum. The basic fact still remains. People do go to hell, and if we know someone who is on that path, we are obligated to do something to try persuade them from that path. (Ezekiel 3: 16-19). How you do that is up to you. My post was mainly intended to be use as a tool, to help people explain why Cardinal Arinze’s statement is correct.

zeland

PS, A suggestion for you and Rosebud77 - Read the book “The Four Last Things - Death, Judgement, Heaven, Hell”, (Tan Publishers) by Fr. Martin Von Cochem O.S.F
amazon.com/Four-Last-Things-Judgment-Heaven/dp/1494364417

And remember: Judgement Day will not be a picnic in the park.
Oh dear! Here we go again. Makes me so sad for thee and I have a highly qualified Spiritual Director of my own so take no recommendations from strangers here

You said
"The basic fact still remains. People do go to hell, and if we know someone who is on that path, we are obligated to do something to try persuade them from that path. (Ezekiel)

The point is you do not know me. period.Or anyone else here. And what you are doing is dangerous in that anonymity . You work through threats? Why? Is that what the Catholic faith has come down to? And you wonder why folk leave? You threaten a lady of nearly 80 years!!! Who has nothing in here heart but love of the Lord Jesus and His needy ones?
I have no fear of Him. He is love and surrounds and showers me with that love.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top