Can ex-Catholics be saved - a detailed look at the situation?

[SyroMalankara]

While the PR on the reburying of the nuns, as opposed to those cared for, seems ill-advised on it’s face, unless violence was what lead to the children’s deaths - an average of 22 or 23 children died per year for 36 years – a significantly high number, however it is stated 35,000 mothers were treated in this time – an extraordinary number. We don’t know the number of high risk pregnant women that were treated there. Maybe it was poor care that lead to these deaths, perhaps, but perhaps not.

 

[Rosebud77]

Such a relief to read this; thank you .

And many are adrift in so many ways.

I have no anger; just an incredible sadness and relief to be away from it. Just posted this as it expresses the mood so well

breakingnews.ie/ireland/latest-national-maternity-hospital-needs-to-be-owned-by-the-state-788579.html

Just the thought of those tiny bodies who died without care or love. Frail bones

One thing hear often id that we ie the church are totally against abortion but do not take care of the ones who are born.

 

[James248]

Excuse me? Please do not accuse any of us of forgetting Jesus . He is my Life .

These evils were done by people within the Church that is run and staffed by people.

And it is that Church I have walked away from . And which I honestly cannot ID as the Church founded by Jesus.

Not ever from Jesus. Not ever for one second.
It is because of this that I honestly cannot stay within the Church …

I posted elsewhere re the reaction here to the news recently that a projected new national maternity hospital is to be owned by the Sisters of Charity

htqtp://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/latest-national-maternity-hospital-needs-to-be-owned-by-the-state-788579.html

That white ribbon is the petition by the way

We are a small country, small population and so many families affected abuse.

would have signed the petition had it been possible. The insensitivity so soon after Tuam

I am not by the way opposing anyone staying in the church . I would never do that

But for me? No.

I’m not accusing anyone. I only speak the truth. Among the disciples there was Judas. How many more bad priests or bishops will there be?

 

[James248]

Is sticking to God’s path EVER easy?

 

[ThundersnowIV]

Used to call this “keeping your eye on your own page”… I think Jesus says it better, re planks and specks?

As for me… I am no longer associated with the Catholic church. Yet my faith and trust in the Lord Jesus have never been so strong and full.

Theology and doctrine have never meant anything to me and living as I do and with my health limitations I honestly do not need physical church.

If folk do nto see the love of the Lord Jesus in my life then I am failing Him .

Tuam ended the Church here in ireland for me. One scandal too far… So I live in what peace I can find, loving Jesus and loving others who He has ways of putting in my solitary path.

And it is that love that will heal . and thus save.

I am certainly not judging you…but if you let the evils of man chase you from a certain church…then it might just chase you from God eventually.

 

[Rosebud77]

I’m not accusing anyone. I only speak the truth. Among the disciples there was Judas. How many more bad priests or bishops will there be?

Very good question and we will see. Not over yet is this . wish it was

 

[Rosebud77]

While the PR on the reburying of the nuns, as opposed to those cared for, seems ill-advised on it’s face, unless violence was what lead to the children’s deaths - an average of 22 or 23 children died per year for 36 years – a significantly high number, however it is stated 35,000 mothers were treated in this time – an extraordinary number. We don’t know the number of high risk pregnant women that were treated there. Maybe it was poor care that lead to these deaths, perhaps, but perhaps not.

The stats are there and the numbers are proved already to be way above national average. The cause of death for many was "marasma’ ie extreme starvation. This was a rich order by the way.

It came out too that the drs gave the nuns presigned death certs so the children were never then seen by a dr and there were some strange causes of death listed.

what you are quoting is way off the reality.

If you look at the pictures of starving babies in eg Somalia? marasma

It was deliberate inexscusable poor care. And the vaccine trials for which the nuns were paid, contributed.

This has all been gone into time and again and the conclusion is inevitable. That the bodies were dumped like that alone shows the attitude.

They were illegitimate.

Many of us went down the lane you are travelling and reached the end sadder and wiser. .

 

[Rosebud77]

I hear you but disagree with your conclusion.

It was meant to be disrespectful.

Families here are now finally lettting go of long held secrets. SOmeone dear to me, my age group, has an aunt who nver went near a church. She has finally told her family that she was one of 12, and when her mother died her father could not cope and they took all the children. Some of the results?

Given Tuam, it was incredibly, breathtakingly insensitive to announce re the maternity hospital being owned by the Srs of Charity, who, by the way, have not even yet paid what they owe to the abuse redress scheme and owe millions.

The bishop then waded in and announced that the hospital will be run on a “Catholic ethos”
and the explosion started.

Been there done that ?

We realise that the timing was because of the upcoming abortion referendum but?

Power has been abused too much and too often And finally the people are hitting back and are in a position to do so.

And this is why the abortion laws will be changed to freely available, We have seen this already with ssm.

The separation of Church and state is always painful.

 

[Rosebud77]

Is sticking to God’s path EVER easy?

Actually yes. I am finding deep peace and prayer in my eyrie. I cannot see the path of God in the church here.

Yes individuals who I meet and respect. But the insititution?

The path of God is to obey the words of Jesus in daily life,

 

[Rosebud77]

I am certainly not judging you…but if you let the evils of man chase you from a certain church…then it might just chase you from God eventually.

No way. The words of Jesus are written in my heart and lived in my life and I have excellent spiritual guidance in this

Decades of my life have in fact been lived in remote and isolated places far from any church so this is simply a continuation of that

And I am not being chased away believe me … But the hubbub of church life is not for me. I am too old and too frail now.

And am deeply relieved to be here. Enough battles to fight frankly but they are meaningful ones.

And why do you look on the dark side with veiled accusations? as your last sentence surely is .

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Should I type anything or not. Every time I post about Case 50 the thread gets deleted. Probably co incidence.
But
I find
reading about people leaving the Catholic Church as in leaving the Sacraments, Mass and everything our Priests offer to us,
Because of individuals who did their best to derail the Church through criminal/immoral activity,
To be quite ( well any word I put here wont really express it).

And then I wonder why these people
To be blunt
Allow satan to continue to derail and divide the Church today.

We need to unite, show solidarity,
Say NO to being turned away from Mass

And provide an example of Faith. In our Catholic Faith.

And while I write this, the shite is about to hit the fan again in my Parish / Diocese , yet again, with new allegations.

 

[Rosebud77]

Should I type anything or not. Every time I post about Case 50 the thread gets deleted. Probably co incidence.
But
I find
reading about people leaving the Catholic Church as in leaving the Sacraments, Mass and everything our Priests offer to us,
Because of individuals who did their best to derail the Church through criminal/immoral activity,
To be quite ( well any word I put here wont really express it).

And then I wonder why these people
To be blunt
Allow satan to continue to derail and divide the Church today.

We need to unite, show solidarity,
Say NO to being turned away from Mass

And provide an example of Faith. In our Catholic Faith.

And while I write this, the shite is about to hit the fan again in my Parish / Diocese , yet again, with new allegations.

That is not the reality of it . Far from it.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

That is a terrible accusation and not the reality of it . Far from it.

Accusation? Its my opinion, its the opinion of those in my Parish who sit in Mass when protests are loudly attempting to interrupt outside.
Yes, shite happened. Yes it deeply affects us. Yes, there are victims and parents of victims sitting in Mass.
yes, people leave in droves because of what happened.
We either move forward, or get stuck in the bog. We heal. We help others heal.
Jesus is the Head of His Church. We are its Body. Are we going to be like those Disciples and leave Him too?

We must NOT confound the reasons why we choose or don’t choose to attend Mass.
and yes I can speak. Considering the impact of Case 50.

And yes , that is just the tactic satan uses. Divide and conquer. ’ oh look at all those paedophiles or baby killers worshipping in there’. Ask any Exorcist.
We are at war dear, war for our Church, our Clergy, our fellow Parishoners, our Truth of Jesus.

 

[Rosebud77]

Accusation? Its my opinion, its the opinion of those in my Parish who sit in Mass when protests are loudly attempting to interrupt outside.
Yes, shite happened. Yes it deeply affects us. Yes, there are victims and parents of victims sitting in Mass.
yes, people leave in droves because of what happened.
We either move forward, or get stuck in the bog. We heal. We help others heal.
Jesus is the Head of His Church. We are its Body. Are we going to be like those Disciples and leave Him too?

We must NOT confound the reasons why we choose or don’t choose to attend Mass.
and yes I can speak. Considering the impact of Case 50.

And yes , that is just the tactic satan uses. Divide and conquer. ’ oh look at all those paedophiles or baby killers worshipping in there’. Ask any Exorcist.
We are at war dear, war for our Church, our Clergy, our fellow Parishoners, our Truth of Jesus.

And this kind of … unseemly, polemical tirade is why I am where I am, in solitude and increasing blessed silence. where Jesus dwells in the hearts of all .

Saying farewell to thee. and praying for thee…

 

[James248]

No way. The words of Jesus are written in my heart and lived in my life and I have excellent spiritual guidance in this

Decades of my life have in fact been lived in remote and isolated places far from any church so this is simply a continuation of that

And I am not being chased away believe me … But the hubbub of church life is not for me. I am too old and too frail now.

And am deeply relieved to be here. Enough battles to fight frankly but they are meaningful ones.

And why do you look on the dark side with veiled accusations? as your last sentence surely is .

I speak truth, and the truth is that the Church is Christ’s body, and if you reject her, you reject her Founder.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

And this kind of … unseemly, polemical tirade is why I am where I am, in solitude and increasing blessed silence. where Jesus dwells in the hearts of all .

Saying farewell to thee. and praying for thee…

Thanks for your prayers. I pray for you too.

Rosebud we are the front line . We are the Church Militant. We choose, people like you and I , whether the sins and criminal activity of others is going to run us out of Mass. Run us away from the Sacraments and what our Priests can offer, teach and minister to us.

Others are watching us. Others are looking at our example. Will she still attend Mass. will she walk into a Church where an evil Priest was raping children 20 years ago. Will she sit and have coffee with a Priest in public now. Will she send her children to that notorious school where laity were raping kids. Will she go work in that home where the most evil things happened for 3 decades?

What will she do? What will her example be? What example of hers should I follow.

We are the ones who must rebuild the church . We must say begone satan.
We must, through our faith show those younger , children, Lukewarm, possible converts what faith means.

And there is nothing wrong with the strong debate that is polemics. And differing opinions on what people like us, in these Parishes should do, how we should act and react.

I make no apology for saying don’t let satan divide and conquer through us. By turning us away

 

[Roseeurekacross]

And on a very basic level, what are we saying to the victims and their families if we say we can’t bring ourselves to go to Mass, to sit with God, because of what happened to them?

 

[Rosebud77]

I speak truth, and the truth is that the Church is Christ’s body, and if you reject her, you reject her Founder.

If that is what you want to see as truth that is your choice.

And thankfully you are not in any position to accuse and judge anyone.

Jesus is not the Church for Jesus is Perfect and the Church is not.

He is my Life and my Lord.

And i never have used and never would use the word “reject” .

OK? OK

 

[Rosebud77]

I hear you but this has nothing to do with giving the Order a hospital… Or with saying that the Order owes a massive amount of money in reparation for proven abuse . In millions.
These are simple facts not insults.

And I do not appreciate being threatened either…

 

[Roseeurekacross]

If that is what you want to see as truth that is your choice.

And thankfully you are not in any position to accuse and judge anyone.

Jesus is not the Church for Jesus is Perfect and the Church is not.

He is my Life and my Lord.

And i never have used and never would use the word “reject” .

OK? OK

Jesus IS THE CHURCH!

Jesus is the Head Of HIS Church. We are the Body of Jesus’s Church.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p2.htm

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p4.htm

Reject the Church and you reject its Founder and its Head, and our ultimate Shepherd - Jesus.