Can one be a good and faithful Catholic and contracept?

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mhansen:
Now that’s following in the footsteps of Christ!

Since we all sin and fall short of “practicing the faith in full”, should we expect you’ll be handing in your resignation letter as well?

Mike
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:rotfl: i absolutely agree Mike! I can’t stand that sentiment from some Holier than thou Catholics! Thank you for putting that out there!

A sinner but still a Catholic,
TarAshly
 
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mhansen:
Now that’s following in the footsteps of Christ!

Since we all sin and fall short of “practicing the faith in full”, should we expect you’ll be handing in your resignation letter as well?

Mike
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To be fair, we should look deeper into what the poster was implying. The notion that we are all sinners is not in question. What may be in question is the idea that we are all baptized into the Church, yet some will reject the authority of Christ and still claim to be in full communion.

Are not Catholics all supposed to be on the same page with regard to the authority of Christ? We may be on different levels of holiness, but we should at least be obedient, or else why claim to be Catholic, unless being Catholic is now self defined by our feelings?
 
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fix:
To be fair, we should look deeper into what the poster was implying. The notion that we are all sinners is not in question. What may be in question is the idea that we are all baptized into the Church, yet some will reject the authority of Christ and still claim to be in full communion.

Are not Catholics all supposed to be on the same page with regard to the authority of Christ? We may be on different levels of holiness, but we should at least be obedient, or else why claim to be Catholic, unless being Catholic is now self defined by our feelings?
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I think I am being fair. It’s the “finger-pointers” that aren’t.

After careful reflection, my statement still stands. The problem we have, and this is human nature, is to automatically class sins that we may not actively participate in as being “worse” than the sins we personally commit. The non-homosexual often beats up on homosexuality, for instance, while maybe turning a blind eye to their own acts of infidelity to their spouse, or to fornication, or to the gallon of whiskey they drink every night. It’s human to try to lessen our guilt somehow by focusing on and pointing out the sins of others. I think this is what Jesus meant when he said to “get the plank out of your eye.” We can’t try to force obedience on certain “hot topics” while all but ignoring the not-so-hot topics. That’s hypocrisy at it’s finest, and really makes us nothing more than modern-day Pharisees.

My point is this: Sin is sin. If you want to kick somebody out of the Church for using contraception, why not kick out all the drunks and liars too? I’ll tell you why. It’s because drinking to excess, lying, infidelity, and other sins like these are more “socially acceptable” because a higher percentage of “faithful Catholics” participate in these than homosexuality, abortion, or birth control. Being in the majority doesn’t make you right. It just gives you a bigger soapbox to stand on, unfortunately, and more people to pat you on the back and say “Go get 'em, Tiger.”

Mike
 
There is a distinction between being a sinner, which we all are, and being faithful to the Church. Being faithful to the Church means obeying the teachings on faith and morals. There is a huge difference between drinking, which in and of itself is not a sin, and blatantly refusing to believe or be obedient to the teachings of the Church. To be a faithful Catholic means that a person is humbling themselves to the teachings of the Church because you believe that the Holy Spirit guides the Church on its teachings. If you don’t believe that (ie you don’t believe contraception, homosexuality, pre-marital sex, or any other teaching), then I would presume that you are not a faithful Catholic.

A person can sin (drink too much, lie, contracept) and know that it is wrong but in their human weakness commit the sin anyway and still be a faithful Catholic. However, you cannot sin because you do not believe it is a sin and be a faithful Catholic.
 
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mhansen:
I think I am being fair. It’s the “finger-pointers” that aren’t.

After careful reflection, my statement still stands. The problem we have, and this is human nature, is to automatically class sins that we may not actively participate in as being “worse” than the sins we personally commit. The non-homosexual often beats up on homosexuality, for instance, while maybe turning a blind eye to their own acts of infidelity to their spouse, or to fornication, or to the gallon of whiskey they drink every night. It’s human to try to lessen our guilt somehow by focusing on and pointing out the sins of others. I think this is what Jesus meant when he said to “get the plank out of your eye.” We can’t try to force obedience on certain “hot topics” while all but ignoring the not-so-hot topics. That’s hypocrisy at it’s finest, and really makes us nothing more than modern-day Pharisees.

My point is this: Sin is sin. If you want to kick somebody out of the Church for using contraception, why not kick out all the drunks and liars too? I’ll tell you why. It’s because drinking to excess, lying, infidelity, and other sins like these are more “socially acceptable” because a higher percentage of “faithful Catholics” participate in these than homosexuality, abortion, or birth control. Being in the majority doesn’t make you right. It just gives you a bigger soapbox to stand on, unfortunately, and more people to pat you on the back and say “Go get 'em, Tiger.”

Mike
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I disagree. It is one thing to sin, admit you sinned, go to confession and have a firm purpose of amendment, but is quite another thing to sin, say it is not a sin, teach others to sin and then claim obedience to the Lord.

By you standard only those who have never sinned may correct anyone. I guess we should all stay silent while our neighbors dance merrily down the road to hell?
 
IMHO, more people would follow the church’s teaching if they really knew what it was, and why, from early on.
 
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katy:
IMHO, more people would follow the church’s teaching if they really knew what it was, and why, from early on.
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:amen: I completely agree!

Malia
 
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fix:
I disagree. It is one thing to sin, admit you sinned, go to confession and have a firm purpose of amendment, but is quite another thing to sin, say it is not a sin, teach others to sin and then claim obedience to the Lord.

By you standard only those who have never sinned may correct anyone. I guess we should all stay silent while our neighbors dance merrily down the road to hell?
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I agree. Drinking, and sex for that matter, is not in itself morally wrong. However - using contraception is, in itself, condemned in the Church.
 
This thread has taken an unusual turn. As for kicking out members for being sinful - if only the sinless were allowed in, there wouldn’t be any members. Paul wrote, “For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.”
Who, but an idiot, clown, or distracted person, would have the temerity to say he or she were without sin?

Seems to me that there is a lot of unwholesome selectivity going on here. That is, there are seven deadly sins. Right now lust seems to be in vogue as the sin to abhor. Gluttony is also a sin. Look at your fellow Catholics in a public assembly and observe some huge bodies. I won’t go on with this.

People, even good Catholics, sin all the time. Confession and an honest intention coupled with action to do better is the only answer. Kicking people out of the church is not.
 
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fix:
To be fair, we should look deeper into what the poster was implying. The notion that we are all sinners is not in question. What may be in question is the idea that we are all baptized into the Church, yet some will reject the authority of Christ and still claim to be in full communion.

Are not Catholics all supposed to be on the same page with regard to the authority of Christ? We may be on different levels of holiness, but we should at least be obedient, or else why claim to be Catholic, unless being Catholic is now self defined by our feelings?
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Which is the worst sinner?

A.) The one who claims he is in full Communion but sins anyway.

B.) The one who admits he is not in full Communion and sins.

Which one does more damage to the image of the Church?

Alan
 
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katy:
IMHO, more people would follow the church’s teaching if they really knew what it was, and why, from early on.
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This brief statement is the best summary of the sorry mess the Church is in today.
 
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AlanFromWichita:
Which is the worst sinner?

A.) The one who claims he is in full Communion but sins anyway.

B.) The one who admits he is not in full Communion and sins.

Which one does more damage to the image of the Church?

Alan
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I think the better question is: Who is attempting to follow the command of Jesus, “…do not sin any more”, when spoken to each one of us when our particular sin and general propensity to sin has been pointed out and forgiven? (John 5:14; 8:11)

The folks in either scenario A. or B. would do well to take the example of the tax collector who humbled himself to receive God’s forgiveness, “O God, be merciful to me a sinner” and “went home justified”. (Luke 18:13-14); or the one brother whom Jesus commended in the parable “who afterwards changed his mind” and became obedient to his father’s will. (Matthew 21:28-30).

Jesus focus in the Gospels was on the salvation of souls through repentance and conversion, daily faithful and obedient discipleship The litmus test that Jesus Himself offered was, ‘Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I command?” (Luke 7:46)

Jesus did not seem overly hung up over whose sin was the greater, rather that folks come to a basic and fundamental decision to believe, repent and follow Him as true disciples.

Jesus posed to the people regarding those who suffered unjust/untimely death, “Do you think that …they were greater sinners?” or “more guilty than everyone else?”, Jesus replied, “By no means! But I tell you, if you do not repent, you will all perish as they did!” (Luke 13:1-5) Obviously Jesus is not content with leaving folks in a lukewarm or sinful state. Fence sitters take heed (only you know who you are but by the grace of God).
 
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AlanFromWichita:
Which is the worst sinner?

A.) The one who claims he is in full Communion but sins anyway.

B.) The one who admits he is not in full Communion and sins.

Which one does more damage to the image of the Church?

Alan
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The one who sins, tells others it is ok to sin and who refuses to repent. This is the issue that keeps coming up on these sorts of threads.
 
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katy:
IMHO, more people would follow the church’s teaching if they really knew what it was, and why, from early on.
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True, but some of this stuff is a no brainer, ex., contraception is always wrong (degree of culpability another matter), that as an adult Catholic would have to be hard pressed to not know. Also, how many people are asking “what”, want to know “why”, and “hear” the challenge to greater fidelity in their faith walk when Church teaching is presented (through word or example)?
 
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felra:
True, but some of this stuff is a no brainer, ex., contraception is always wrong (degree of culpability another matter), that as an adult Catholic would have to be hard pressed to not know.
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I sadly have to completely disagree:nope:

I just found out that a distant Catholic relative of mine is contracepting. While, in this day and age, that in itself is not unusual, the reason why is disgusting.

She was married just this summer in the Catholic Church. Her hubby and her did a preCana course. In the course they were actually taught all about contraception… the pros and cons of each method and how to choose what’s right for them!!!

NFP was not even mentioned. It was never mentioned that contraception is intrinsically evil. Sad.

Malia
 
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kenzi:
ok, thats what I mean, like, why don’t everyone who doesn’t accept every teaching of the Catholic church right down the line, just leave the church?
I think it would make it so much easier, thats all I’m trying to get across, I know that most all of the Catholics I know don’t follow at least one if not more of the churches teachings so I think they should just find a different faith if they can’t take all the teachings and we should get rid of all the priests and whoever else won’t stand up for the true church teachings, we should only have priests that are willing to stand at the pulpit and let everyone know that the church won’t have it any other way, the churches way or get out.
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Let’s not get carried away here. That’s the nice thing about the RCC. She pastors her sheep while waiting for the others who have gone astray. And patiently SHE waits. If what you said was the standard of the RCC then we might as well be puritans. But that’s not how she works. She recognizes the weaknesses of HER children so she allow them to get back up and learn from their mistakes and hoping that they would mend their ways. That’s why we have the sacrament of confession(which I think is a very, very powerful sacrament).
 
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Bella3502:
Let’s face it, NFP is not as effective as other forms of birth control. If it were, more Catholics would be willing to use it, and more would be willing to teach it to other couples. If it were more effective, then why don’t they teach it in the Church?
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I think it is. It is what comes with NFP that is hard for most people to accept and that is self-control. NFP allows you to engage in the marital act only on certain periods(when the woman is not ovulating) and not everytime or whenever you want. There is a time in the cycle of a woman when she is naturally infertile and this doesn’t violate the natural law because this is how GOD designed it to be.

For you second question, the Church is not the place to teach this course although some parishes offer crash courses on NFP. But the Catholic Church supports NFP. The Church is not place to teach such things. It is a place for worship and a place to hear Gods word and meditate on it.
 
Why are each one of us Catholic?
I don’t think two of us would have the same answer. Each one of us is called to Church in different ways.
I know that there are many who have not heard the full teaching of the Church. Many are learning the hard way how to give all of themselves over to God and to the guidence of His Church.
If a couple contracepts they will possibly not have a child to pass there lack of understand of the Churches teachings on to 😦 (Though it is extremely scary they they may be teaching this in their own Chruch :mad: ). If they do Co-create with God and conceive a child even though they are contracepting… they will be tested. Will they fall further into sin and have an abortion or will they have their eyes opened long enough to question why God would give them such a gift of life when they do not want it. There is a lot of inbetween here.
Each one of us has issues like this :gopray2:
Each one of us will come to a point of crisis that will hopefully help us to turn to God.
I contracepted before I became Catholic, before I was Married.
I had a lot to learn about what God had in store for me and my sexuality, and still do. So far I am so happy about how God has changed my heart and mind and healled my Body that I don’t think I can express my Joy.
I understand why some my fear how a child may affect their lives. ANd how they may still be living in fear even after they think they have it all under control by contracepting.
**Do “faithful Catholics” have any clue what it is like to have this fear. **
Please do not Judge!!! Please Love your brothers and sisters in Christ and help them and pray for them to turn to God, and trust him with their bodies, before it is to late for themselves and their future unborn children.
 
For you second question, the Church is not the place to teach this course although some parishes offer crash courses on NFP. But the Catholic Church supports NFP. The Church is not place to teach such things. It is a place for worship and a place to hear Gods word and meditate on it.
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I disagree, the Church is the right place to teach NFP. They don’t really support it if they don’t talk about it, teach it, or make it available for Catholic couples. Just once, I would like to see NFP classes listed in the Church bulletin or mentioned during service. A little goes a long way.
 
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