Can our democracy survive if most Republicans think the government is illegitimate?

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TMC said:
What has been different with Trump is giving them formal positions, salaries, staffs, security clearances, and so on.
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Would you oppose President elect Biden appointing his wife as education secretary?
I would not. He should be allowed to appoint her. (That’s not an endorsement of her education philosophy. In fact, I find the progressive education philosophy to be detrimental to student learning on a number of fronts.)
 
JonNC said:
Would you oppose President elect Biden appointing his wife as education secretary?
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I think it would be imprudent. It is also unclear that she would be qualified, but even if she were I think it would be a mistake.
 
TMC said:
I think it would be imprudent. It is also unclear that she would be qualified, but even if she were I think it would be a mistake.
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She’s obviously qualified. She has a EdD, not that this is some baseline of qualification.
If he thought she was best for the job, why not?
I’d certainly value that more than the basis of identity that he’s using currently.
 
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JonNC said:
She’s obviously qualified. She has a EdD, that this is some baseline of qualification.
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I disagree with that. Lots of people with doctorates in their field are not necessarily qualified to run the agency that oversees that field.
JonNC said:
If he thought she was best for the job, why not?
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I think it creates both the appearance of impropriety and the potential of a real conflict of interest. Is he going to fire her if she does a bad job? Do her budget requests get preferential treatment? I just think its bad practice. Not saying it would necessarily be the end of the world, but I would be against it.
 
JonNC said:
JFK appointed his brother, Robert, AG. Can you imagine that cacophony of protest, the screams of protest, the predictions of utter doom of the republic, the claims of the end of democracy as we know it, if Trump had appointed a member of his family to a cabinet post?
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JFK appointed his brother RFK as attorney general because he wanted someone he could absolutely trust as an advisor and confidante. During the Cuban missile crisis it was RFK, not somebody from the state department, who summoned Andrei Gromyko to his office to urge removal of the missiles, warning the USSR ambassador about the chance of nuclear war. Ultimately, the missiles were removed from Cuba. It seems that RFK was also one who urged JFK to move forward on civil rights.
 
Jeanne_S said:
As opposed to Biden!who is more concerned about diversity in his cabinet appointments,then he is actual experience.Symbolism over substance …
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I thought people voted for Trump originally BECAUSE he had no experience in government or as a politician. Once again, I am confused.
 
MikeInVA said:
Would you willingly have a bunch of people in your employ who were actively working to subvert you?
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Straw man. You know perfectly well no one has suggested that.
No reasonable person can truly believe that there was not one single qualified person who could have been brought in, instead of unqualified relatives.
 
TMC said:
I disagree with that. Lots of people with doctorates in their field are not necessarily qualified to run the agency that oversees that field.
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Frankly, I don’t think education credentials in and of themselves are much of an indicator of ability to lead a cabinet level position. Leadership, wisdom, intelligence, and “grit” are key factors. Having a PhD is certainly a good indicator of intelligence as well as grit. Leadership and wisdom are demonstrated other ways, such as through work history, volunteer work, board memberships, etc. And frankly, I don’t think an EdD is required to be a secretary of education, or a degree in transportation management to be qualified to be the secretary of transportation (cf Pete Buttigieg), or a degree in foreign policy to be secretary of state (cf Hillary Clinton).
 
sallybutler said:
I thought people voted for Trump originally BECAUSE he had no experience in government or as a politician. Once again, I am confused.
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Lack of experience isn’t the key issue here. Judging people by the color of their skin rather than the content of their characters is.
 
The practical use of English Lit/History might not be much, but it does indicate you have intelligence, some grit (to slog through the process to get a degree). But I think after 20+ years, one ends up in a very different place from where they started. I received my BSEE nearly 25 years ago. I do very little actual engineering these days, now relegated to being a manager and project leads. And our CEO, who received his PhD in EE some 40 years ago hasn’t done any actual engineering development or projec t lead roles in 20+ years.

I think once you reach a certain point, it doesn’t matter what your education is. It only matters how well you can lead. Case in point was one of my previous managers. Had a BA in Theater. Had nearly no background in hardware or software, relying on what he learned over his career, but managed a group of about 30 of us spectacularly well. He listened well, trusted his people, and made key decisions frequently after hearing all the feedback. Any cabinet member serves a similar role. Particular expertise isn’t necessary.
 
TMC said:
I disagree with that. Lots of people with doctorates in their field are not necessarily qualified to run the agency that oversees that field.
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I mistyped. I meant to say it is not a baseline. Sorry for the mistake.
TMC said:
I think it creates both the appearance of impropriety and the potential of a real conflict of interest. Is he going to fire her if she does a bad job? Do her budget requests get preferential treatment?
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In both of these, there is oversight. The voters can vote him out if there is impropriety, and Congress holds the power of the purse.
TMC said:
I just think its bad practice. Not saying it would necessarily be the end of the world, but I would be against it.
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I completely understand your position.
 
JimG said:
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JonNC:
JFK appointed his brother, Robert, AG. Can you imagine that cacophony of protest, the screams of protest, the predictions of utter doom of the republic, the claims of the end of democracy as we know it, if Trump had appointed a member of his family to a cabinet post?
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JFK appointed his brother RFK as attorney general because he wanted someone he could absolutely trust as an advisor and confidante. During the Cuban missile crisis it was RFK, not somebody from the state department, who summoned Andrei Gromyko to his office to urge removal of the missiles, warning the USSR ambassador about the chance of nuclear war. Ultimately, the missiles were removed from Cuba. It seems that RFK was also one who urged JFK to move forward on civil rights.
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I’m not necessarily criticizing anything they did, just making the comparison to the criticism of Trump using family members in a similar way- confidante, etc.
 
JonNC said:
The Russia hacked the election was a lie.
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I don’t recall any allegations that Russia was able to “hack” the 2016 election. But “hack” is such an informal term that doesn’t really have a pinned-down usage. To be more specific, I don’t recall any allegation that Russia was successful in making any modifications to voting results.

I do recall the allegation that, through memes and social media, Russia engaged in a propoganda campaign to influence USA voters for the 2016 election.
 
OMG! @JonNC, @TMC, @(name removed by moderator), all having a civilized conversation, with point/counter-point, and not nastiness! Even in these pandemic, end of CAF, days?! Will wonders never cease …
 
It appears we are birds of a feather. My father never went to college (27 years in the Navy). My grandfather was a logger. I have no idea on my mother’s side as she left my father when I was very young. He was a stickler for education, tolerating no less than full marks for me. He was fair, but hard, granting rewards for each A and severe penalties for less than a B. I grew up with a strong love for learning that has carried over through to today.

For my part, the most frustrating thing for me is dealing with those who have no interest in learning. I volunteer at my children’s school teaching a class once a week. The absolute lack of interest by some is mind blowing. And the absolute lack of support my so many parents even more so. And I meet so many people that have no interest in learning about the world, their community, their government, or most egregiously so, their faith.

If only there were more curious souls. 🙏
 
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Oh, sure! I recognize you, Jon, and TMC from years back. I’ve always appreciated all of the sincere, mostly cordial 😉 discussion, between us all. I’m glad we so far haven’t been pulled into maelstrom of incivility that is ramping up.
 
I’ve never experienced nastiness from either of these posters. Point, intense views, yes.
In fact, Jharek in particular I have always held in high regard.
 
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